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Author Topic:   The Outsider
libraschoice7
Knowflake

Posts: 174
From: the city so nice they named it twice!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2006 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey everyone, with astrology you can tell quite a few things about someone, which is pretty cool, but what aspects or placements would you look for to tell if someone is 'different' or feels like an outsider when it comes to social norms? I have always felt like this all my life(which I don't mind and kind of like)and I tend to think it's because of combination of Moon in Cancer in 12th house along with my Sun in Libra in 4th house. But there are people out there that do mind it. So if you feel that at times you are an 'outsider' feel free to post what you think is in your chart may be the reason.

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

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libraschoice7
Knowflake

Posts: 174
From: the city so nice they named it twice!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2006 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So I am the only one...

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

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Happy Dragon
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posted October 28, 2006 03:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*libraschoice7*
.. check what aspects you may have to natal Uranus in your chart ..
.. seems to be a prime energy related to feeling like an 'outsider'

.. if you find that to be the case ..
then investigate / research the uranian influence in astrology ..

i just looked for a relevant article and links .. but the're missing at the moment ..
also data re the 12th house .. been a bunch of past threads on that and urns ..

'later
H§D
(uranian influenced with12th house moon)

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( audio files .. mp3 format .. www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/audiofls.html .. )
"If you don't like my peaches, please don't shake my tree" .. Elmore James ..

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libraschoice7
Knowflake

Posts: 174
From: the city so nice they named it twice!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2006 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Happy Dragon, thanx for responding, my natal Uranus doesn't look like anything different or out of the ordinary...just Uranus trine Moon, Jupiter trine Uranus, and Uranus trine Ascendant...

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

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Happy Dragon
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posted October 28, 2006 04:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*libraschoice7*

re
*.. just Uranus trine Moon, and Uranus trine Ascendant..*
.. well ..those two are aspects from uranus to very 'personal' placements ..
.. and given one of those placements is in your 12th .. food for thought .. no?? ..

i mean those 'trine' aspects are an easy flow of energy .. so 'being/feeling' as a bit 'outside' ..
wouldn't be too much of a conflict within .. .. but the 12th house moon won't be too easy ..
nothing in the 12th ever is .. .. although never say 'never'

when i find the relevant links .. shall post them here ..
desktop needs organizing a.s.a.p. ..

'later
h.d

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Maire31
Newflake

Posts: 10
From: here there and everywhere
Registered: May 2009

posted October 28, 2006 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maire31     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tend to agree with HD re the Uranus thing.

I have Uranus 12th, conjunct my Asc opp Venus/Pisces <1 deg orb. Really causes me to step outside of all sorts of social conventions. I don't usually mind it though. I tend to have more of that rebellious Uranian attitude of 'F$ck 'em if they don't like it!"

With Pluto sitting smack on my Asc, quincunx to Sun & Merc in Aries...well let's just say you can either love me or hate me. It's certainly not an easy lifetime. Maybe that Uranus attitude helps out a bit, if not for that I might not have the carefree attitude I often have.

I also have Cancer Moon/10th which squares my Aries Sun/Merc/8th. I have the tough exterior and the super-soft mush emotions. A blessing and a curse.

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Happy Dragon
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posted October 28, 2006 06:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
..... excerp from previously posted link ......
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Feeling Separate: * A Uranian Dilemma *

Uranus represents shock and change, detachment and going one's own way. Uranus contacts in a natal chart can symbolize a need for freedom so extreme that it can lead to detachment from others. Uranian emphasis can indicate an openness to everything and, therefore, an unwillingness to commit to any one thing. Such continual expressions of individualism and the desire for freedom can lead to feelings of separation and alienation in a Uranian person.

Alienation is the bugaboo of those with a Uranus aspect. When we get beyond the surface images of the Uranian archetypes (Genius, Revolutionary) and explore the emotional framework of such individuals, we can see that alienation is a very real force in their lives, leading to the expression of other faces of Uranus, such as the Outcast and the Loner.

Think about it: Just one zap from a Uranus transit can awaken us to realize how stifled we feel in our lives. We may feel trapped and restless, straining at our bonds, disconnected from those around us, wanting a change. Sometimes, we have a sense of loneliness and alienation, without knowing where to turn. Well, a transit eventually ends. But for those of us born with a Uranus aspect, it can seem as though we experience this transit energy daily. We may feel restless, disconnected, dissatisfied, misunderstood, torn in different directions, and struggling to be a part of something that takes us outside of ourselves, outside of our loneliness.

Phyllis Firak-Mitz wrote an excellent article on Uranus that was published in The Mountain Astrologer. In this article, she rightly identifies the Uranus challenges as Abandonment, Alienation, and Aloneness. 10 Here is a planetary energy that embodies change, sudden insight, and revolution; yet, in a natal chart, it more often represents the emotional residue of genius and individualism ? feelings of alienation and aloneness.

Firak-Mitz points out in her article that Uranian-influenced individuals can actually create their own sense of alienation by (1) focusing on differences, (2) being rebellious, and (3) choosing to feel abandoned.

I would like to propose that Uranian individuals are attracted to the martial arts to heal, or at least to resolve, these feelings of alienation and aloneness. In their search for freedom, they are led to the martial arts, perhaps not with conscious awareness of their purpose, but still with the same outcome: healing ....

Uranian people thus attempt to heal the feelings of separation, of being an outsider, of having been abandoned; and to subdue the opponent, who is truly oneself.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.. above text by .. *Lynn Finger *

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
about the author :
Lynn Finger has studied martial arts for eight years and has practiced astrology for more than 30 years. She holds a first-degree black belt in Tang Soo Do and is in the process of earning a black belt in Kenpo. Lynn writes poetry and considers astrology to be a poetic reflection of life.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
'till later ...
* *
( .. Urns. .. sqr. Venus .. opp. Chiron .. sqr. Saturn .. sext. Lillith .. sext. Mrc )

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( audio files .. mp3 format .. www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/audiofls.html .. )
"If you don't like my peaches, please don't shake my tree" .. Elmore James ..

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Maire31
Newflake

Posts: 10
From: here there and everywhere
Registered: May 2009

posted October 28, 2006 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maire31     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HD~

Great article there! Really illuminates the alternate perspective of rebellion...I can identify with the idea that it's my own unconscious choice to separate myself from others.

Really zeroed in on my lifelong feeling of being a living paradox. Reveling in my solitude and craving connection. I don't ever want to get married again, and yet I hope to someday marry again! I keep most of these paradoxical thoughts/feelngs to myself (Uranus 12/H??). Very few people are consciously aware of these contradictions. They mainly see/feel the outward/obvious Uranian traits.

Rev. Alice pointed out that during this current transit of Uranus to n. Uranus, n. Chiron, n. Pluto and DC I would finally figure out who I really am, as in becoming truly self-aware. I sure hope this comes to pass soon. This has been feeling extremely unsettling, good ol' Uranus...sigh.

Thanks for the great info!

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libraschoice7
Knowflake

Posts: 174
From: the city so nice they named it twice!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 28, 2006 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maire31, so you feel that way too...understanding? Thank you Happy Dragon for helping me with my situation, for a minute there I felt kind of alone(In a big dark room with my voice echoing..."hello").

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

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Happy Dragon
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posted October 28, 2006 08:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
~ Maire31 ~
.. re: ..
* ..Reveling in my solitude and craving connection.
I don't ever want to get married again,
and yet I hope to someday marry again! ..*

.. can empathise totaly ..

.. and knowing my luck 'n great fortune .. ;-)))
.. along will come a urns transit ..
.. and before i know what's what ..

.. I'll be sayin' yes 'n signing some peice of paper ..

~ libraschoice7~
* for a minute there I felt kind of alone(In a big dark room with my voice echoing..."hello"). *

.. sounds a bit 12th housee :-)))
.. think you'll find many flk here have an uranian influence or two ..
.. it can play out in different ways ..
.. at a guess your likely to get sudden revelations about life .. thru the moon in your 12th for a start ..
.. and it can be hard to grab at 'n feel emotions that lay in the 12th house depths ..
that's where the echoes come from ;-)

.. dunno .. sort of example here ..
was asked by a friend recently .. ".. how's your emotional life?"
well .. i couldn't come up with an answer off-hand .. apart from maybe ..'oh yeah .. fine thanx'
.. but that night i was awake for hours trying to figure the real answer ..
.. the more i thought about it .. the more i seemed to go down a dark tunnel ..
.. felt as if there were more than a few buried emotions down there ..
.. anyhow .. i don't take to dark tunnels too well ..
.. I'd make a lousy miner for sure ..
.. guess that may be a prob with the 12th house .. what goodies ( or otherwise ) lay there ..
seem hard to grab a hold of ..

.. H§D ..

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Happy Dragon
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posted October 28, 2006 08:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
re : .. placements in12th house ..
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.. following txt was from a website .. have lost link adrs. ..
.. don't have the author listed ..

***** some info about the 12th house *****

When we choose to address through the horoscope, that which is hidden from our concious minds, the houses we examine are the 8th and 12th, along with their respective rulers Pluto and Neptune. The mysterious natures of these two houses are distinctly different. In the Plutonian depths of the 8th, the 'hidden' information is there waiting for us, layered in meaning and rich with implication.

In contrast when dealing with the 12th house and Neptune, even those of us most willing to unflinchingly face our deepest 'selves', may be unable to access the material we seek.

The implications of Neptune and the 12th are usualy more or less obscured, distorted and chimerical. the material may be availble only indirectly through dreams, life metaphor, synchronicity, cosmic revelation, or the product of the imagination. Sometimes we see the message of Neptune or the 12th contained in one's relationship to institutions, where the individual expresses facets of the 'personality' of the institution and the institution expresses facets of the individual.

In this instance there is always a danger of the individual losing him/herself within the identity of the larger body. .. i.e. the role becomes the person.

No matter what the means of connecting with 12th house material, placements here can bring added emphasis that is difficult to grasp but impossible to ignore. The 'foggy' qualities and the imaginative stimulus which Neptune brings to the activities of the house where it is placed, are equaly compelling and disorienting.

There are two things to keep in mind when analyzing planetary placements in the 12th .. (a) the unconcious nature of the 12th can cause the planetary energies to be projected, or on the other hand, those energies may not be availble as if there is a feeling as if a piece of the individual were 'missing' .. (b) untill they become concious and are thoroughly explored, these planetary energies will remain inaccessible .. though they will tend to manifest involuntarily, usualy in ways that are neither convenient nor appropriate.

The house or houses with Pisces on the cusp, or a house other than the 12th which contains Neptune, should be approached with the caveat that appearances can be deceiving. In these instances, what you see is not always what you get and this elusive quality is as disorienting to the native as it is to those with whom he or she interacts. Even when matters of the house containing Neptune are approached in the most honest and forthright manner, there is still certain to be a minimum ammount of distortion or misperception connected with the involved persons or issues. Coming to grips with the meaning of the Neptunian influence, neccessitates a multi dimensional synthesis that calls upon intuition, symbolism, and the subconcious .. as much as rational linear analysis.

Remember to that progressions, solar arcs and transits through the 12th house may bring forth buried, repressed or subconciously held characteristics or memories associated with the planet or light involved .. or may bring forward those qualities which are disowned. These may manifest through dreams, encounters with others and thru institutions with a 12th house role .. eg a Sturn transit thru the 12th may bring about confinement in a hospital or prison .. work associated with one of those .. visiting someone who is confined .. charity or volunteer involvement .. or the recovery of long forgotten memories .. to name a few.

In reading any planetary placement one must take into account the aspects and signs involved and the overall compatibility of the planetary energies in terms of the individuals personality. Especialy troublesome is the 'one of a kind' placement such as .. the only 'fixed' planet in an otherwise mutable chart .. or the only water placement in a chart emphasising air.

When a singular influence is found in the 12th it takes on enormous importance, since as often as not, the influence is experienced totaly thru manifestations of the subconcious ... and thru outer rather than inner experiences .. ( by unconcious projection of the quality .. one will often see the features in others .. or circumstances ) ..

A solo influence can be felt as almost a separate, foreign - seeming aspect of the 'self' .. causing such comments as " that's not like me at all " and " I don't know what i was thinking of when i did that " ....

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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teaologist
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posted October 28, 2006 08:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Gooberzlostlovefound
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posted October 28, 2006 09:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another thing: look for Mars Square (or Opposite) Uranus

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Maire31
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From: here there and everywhere
Registered: May 2009

posted October 28, 2006 09:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maire31     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libra~

I TOTALLY relate. In my first post I was, yet again, only acknowledging the overt Uranian expression of wanting to be separate from others. After reading HD's article I had to reflect that covert Uranian expression that I tend not to "put out there" because it's sooooo contradictory. It's almost embarrassing to verbally espouse such completely paradoxical behaviors/thoughts/emotions. People think you just wanna have your cake and eat it too. They often don't appreciate the struggle. I'm so glad you posted your thoughts/ideas on this.

"Nothing is accidental in the Universe..." Joyce Carol Oates


HappyDragon~

I loved (and hated, lol) this part of your last post:

"The house or houses with Pisces on the cusp, or a house other than the 12th which contains Neptune, should be approached with the caveat that appearances can be deceiving. In these instances, what you see is not always what you get and this elusive quality is as disorienting to the native as it is to those with whom he or she interacts. Even when matters of the house containing Neptune are approached in the most honest and forthright manner, there is still certain to be a minimum ammount of distortion or misperception connected with the involved persons or issues. Coming to grips with the meaning of the Neptunian influence, neccessitates a multi dimensional synthesis that calls upon intuition, symbolism, and the subconcious .. as much as rational linear analysis."

I immediately thought, "Oh great, Pisces on the 7th house...Neptune in 3rd house...with all this Uranian stuff going on outta my 12th and my Aries 8th house with my acute Sun Merc conjunction (<1 deg). No wonder I can mindf$ck my existence so thoroughly...sigh.

"That which doesn't kill us...." Nietzsche

happy trails...
Maire

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and
Newflake

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From:
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posted October 29, 2006 07:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for and     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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teaologist
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posted October 29, 2006 11:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oy, I'm sorry about the upcoming tangent---I just sincerely want to get all of this right...

I think I mentioned the Saturn thing because in most of the descriptions I've read, at least with Moon sq. Saturn, the key words seem to be "left out," "fear of rejection," and "emotional detachment." Maybe the motivations are different b/w Uranus and Saturn? I'm guessing that the Moon sq Uranus person will experience loneliness because he treasures his freedom so much? And the Moon sq Saturn person will experience loneliness because he would rather not face rejection (defense mechanism)? Either way, the outsider feeling seems present. Does that make sense? Again, I just really want to understand. Thanks!

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