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Author Topic:   schizophrenia?
izodesmozina
unregistered
posted November 03, 2006 11:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was wondering what might "scream" schizophrenia in a birth chart (or other mental illnesses for that matter). I imagine it has to do with hard aspects with Mercury. I have both Saturn and Pluto opposing my Merc (wide orb, but nevertheless...) and Pallas and Asc squaring it... I also have positive aspects to it, but I really feel those bad ones...

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
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posted November 03, 2006 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this might help.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-articles/astrology-scientific-studies.php

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted November 03, 2006 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd look at hard aspects involving the outer planets(Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto)with the personal points(Ascendant,Midheaven,Sun,Moon..as well as Mercury which is thinking)


Saturn is the planet of physical boundaries.
Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto orbit beyond Saturn. They have to do with metaphysical which means "beyond physical"

Metaphysical energies can be useful on the metaphysical plane,but very hard to handle on the physical plane.


I'd also look into Eris which is a body that is larger than Pluto and orbits well beyond Pluto suggesting that it's a more metaphysical planet.


There are also various types of schizophrenia


According to DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders ,there are

Paranoid Type
A type of schizophrenia in which the following criteria are ment:
A. Preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory hallucinations
B. None of the following is prominent: disorganized speech, disorganized or catatonic behavior,or flat or inappropriate effect.


Disorganized Type
A type of schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
A. All of the following are prominent
1. disorganized speech
2.disorganized behavior
3.flat or inappropriate affect

B. The criteria are not met for Catatonic type.


Catatonic Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the clinical picture is dominated by at least two of the following:
1. motoric immobility as evidenced by catalepsy(including waxy flexibility) or stupor
2.excessive motor activity (that is apparently purposeless and not influenced by external stimuli)
3.extreme negativism (an apparently motiveless resistance to all instructions or maintenance of a rigid posture attempts to be moved) or mutism
4.peculiarities of voluntary movement as evidenced by posturing (voluntary assumption of inappropriate or bizarre postures), stereotyped movements, prominent mannerisms, or prominent grimacing
5.echolalia or echopraxia

Undifferentiated Type
The essential of the undifferentiated type of schizophrenia is the presence of symptoms that meet Criterion A of schizophrenia but that do not meet criteria fro the paranoid,disorganized,or catatonic type.
A tu[e pf schizophrenia in which symptoms that meet criterion a are present, but the criteria are not met for the paranoid,disorganized,or catatonic type.

Residual type
A type of schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met.
A. Absence of prominent delusions,hallucinations,disorganized speech,and grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior.
B.There is a continuing evidence of the disturbance, as indicated by the presence or negative symptoms or two or more symptoms in criterion a for schizophrenia,present in an attenuated(e.g.,odd beliefs,unusual perceptual experiences

There are lot of psychiatric misdiagnoses. It definitely has happened to me as in my misdiagnosis of schizoaffective bipolar disorder because of my Dyslexic,Dyspraxic-related speech irregularities. I just want to point out that psychiatrists can make mistakes and they do. It's always good to get a 2nd opinion. There should always be psychological,medical,and neurological testing to be done.

some conditions that can be misdiagnosed as schizophrenia are

Bipolar Disorder..especially type 1
Anxiety Disorders..especially social anxiety
Schizotypal Personality Disorder
Neurodivergent conditions(Autism,Aspergers,Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD,Sensory integration Disorder)
Avoidant Personality Disorder
Pyroluria
neurological disorders including stuff like cerebellar vestibular dysfunction

Please note that poor coordination,left/right confusion,and disorganization are soft neurological signs of schizophrenia, but those same symptoms are also in nuerodivergent conditions(Dyspraxia,Dyslexia,sensory integration disorder) and neurological disorders.


Clinicians assessing the symptoms of schizophrenia in socioeconomic or cultural situations that different from the their own must take cultural differences into account. Ideas that may appear to be delusional in one culture(e.g. sorcery and witchcraft)may be commonly held in another. In some cultures, visual or auditory hallucinations with a religious content may be a normal part of religious experience (e.g. seeing the Virgin mary or hearing God's voice). In addition, the assessment of speech may be made difficult by linguistic variation in narrative styles across cultures that affects the logical form of verbal presentation. The assessment of affect requires sensitivity to differences in styles of emotional expression,eye contact,and body language,which vary across cultures.
(this is page 306 of DSM-IV-TR Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)


(page 306 of DSM-IV-TR)

I would definitely look at the hard aspects involving the outerplanets...depending on the subtype of schizophrenia though..for instance hard Pluto aspects may be involved in Paranoid subtype of schizophrenia. hard Uranus and Neptune aspects would seem to be involved in disorganized type of schizophrenia. Catatonia subtype of schizophrenia might involve hard Saturn aspects.
I know an astrologer that focuses on other harmonics. She suspects that the 7th harmonic aspect might be involved due the mystical nature of the aspect. Schizophrenics can be like mystics to the extreme to the point that they can't tell the otherworldly from the worldly. Also many mystics,psychics,occultists,magicians,channelers,mediums can be misdiagnosed as schizophrenic by psychiatrists that don't believe in anything metaphysical. That's another thing to keep in mind.

I never told a psychiatrist about being an astrologer nor involved with any type of metaphysical subject. It's bad enough that they think that I am messed with my speech irregularities.

I am definitely not open to them about my basic traits of my Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio and my Pisces Moon square Neptune.

hahahahaaha

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william
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posted November 03, 2006 02:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
as glaucus pointed out there are many labels for mental distress.the most obvious one for me to recognize is bi-polar syndromes.
any hard aspect,opposition, square even a conjunction and semisquare-sesquiquadreate with uranus to mercury,sun ,venus,moon ,and to a lesser degree mars, combined with hard aspects to saturn to any of the conscious planets usually show up as a bi-polar disorder. your situation seems like classic depression as pluto and sayurn in unison are particularly depressive.
william

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izodesmozina
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posted November 03, 2006 04:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello, everybody!
I'm very thankful for all your posts. I checked for Eris, it's in Aries, in my 2nd house, in a tight conjunction with my Sun and a trine with Jupiter. I don't know how to interpret that.
The bad news is I have Uranus sesquiquadrate Mercury and semisquare the Ascendant...
I don't think I fall under any of the types of schizophrenia mentioned by Glaucus. Actually, I talked with a psychologist about this (I have 2 relatives with schizophrenia and I kinda freaked out) and she told me I'm as normal as anybody else... not even depressive.
Just wanted to ask you, Glaucus, what aspects in your chart point to your speech irregularities?
Thanks again for sharing this info with me *hug*

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D for Defiant
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Posts: 588
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 06, 2007 03:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus, you really have impressed me!

I mean your wealth of knowledge and your astrological expertise! I nearly missed this thread. You referred to the diagnostic criteria in DSM-IV-TR and applied those to astrological aspects that might indicate schizophrenia...remarkable. I'm going to copy this thread and place it somewhere else for my own more convenient reading.

But Glaucus, I just remembered that I've been having this question in mind, and since you seem anything but unfamiliar with DSM-IV-TR-

Would you be so kind to give us a hint as to what astro placements have more likelihood of resulting in the individual developping histrionic personality disorder (HPD) or its traits (if they haven't met sufficient diagnostic criteria)? I've known a Cancerean woman for over 2 years now, but only to realize recently that she appears to have strong histrionic traits, plus some other traits of narcissistic, antisocial, avoidant and perhaps dependent. I don't have her full birth info, I only know she is a sun sign Cancer, born at the end of June, around late 1960s or early 1970s (very unlikely to be anything later than the year 1970). I've been guessing that her ascendant is possibly Aquarius. But I've also been considering Libra or Gemini. That's all I know about her.

Sorry, I'm aware that this thread was originally for schizophrenia- but I couldn't help typing away because Glaucus seems to be uniquely knowledgeable in this area. Anyway, I had spent two years constantly criticizing this Cancerean woman for her over-the-top showing-off, her grandiose speech and gesture, without realizing why I don't like certain qualities about her. Finally the mystery's solved. She doesn't seem self-destructive, but she's been manipulating those around her and it's those people who are in greater danger than herself.

She has a boyfriend who's also her colleague. She's been seeing him for about two years at least. I have the natal details of the guy though:

The Scorpio guy
born on October 31, 1977
9AM local time, Taipei, Taiwan

And once again my own birth info:
Aqua girl
born on February 3 1980
10:10PM local time, Taipei, Taiwan

Glaucus,

Could you please help me interpret the Scorpio guy's chart (I know you've already done mine, and thanks) and see what you may discover with the very limited information I've provided? Sorry, but so far I haven't succeeded in obtaining the full natal info of the Cancer woman. Finally, I have to stress that, her histrionic tendencies have increasing worsened for the past year.

Thanks very much in advance.

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