posted November 08, 2007 12:10 AM              

on top of it, my mars is 11 aquarius (and so is my mercury!) so i think our opposition is being somewhat highlighted, to be healed. i feel this all working and it feels fine and good..

however, my vertex is ALSO 10 leo AND i just discovered my lilith (whichever one is on the quick-select menue at astro.com) is also 12 degrees leo! so this is like a major chiron whammy for me! and the conjunctionness of all these in our synastry confuse me too.

here is what i am *FEELING* but i have no clue if i am right because the asteroids are so new to me, and i really don't know much about either vertex or lilith except that one is a spiritual doorway/ascendant and the other is like your dark inner warrior woman or something!? so anyway this is how i am feeling it. this guy is a cancer and is normally soooo sweet and gentle and kind and was so innately respectful to me when we spent time together and everything just felt so perfect. but he has this roommate who is a jerk to him (i've witnessed this a lot) and other things in his life are not running so smoothly..

so anyway, what i am feeling is that he tends to react sorta loudly and angrily to keep his sensitive nature from being too overwhelmed (not often at all, and only when people are rude, if at all).. but he had never been this way with me, and when he was i could totally feel that it was carryover from the way he's gotten used to reacting to his roommate and whatnot. well, i have been walked on in many relationships and in this one i have made myself *extremely* vulnerable to him and he knows every tiny nuance of every part of my feelings about him, my past, etc. he asks a lot and i tell him a lot. anyway, so my normal reaction would have been to apologize (when he was rude to me i woke him up by accident on the phone) but suddenly i am feeling *VERY* strongly that i need to be very strong and act as a bit of a disciplinarian in terms of telling him to respect me and to not treat me rudely. i wrote him a quick email that basically told him i would not tolerate being treated that way. not angrily, just very plainly and with a calm authority. it was a very short email and he is used to long lovey latters from me! my feeling to do this came out of nowhere because i am normally very eager to take the blame for upsetting any body and not rocking the boat as much as possible, so i am kinda nervous about it!

soooo.. long winded as this question has gotten, does this sound like the energy that might be involved in a double mars, lilith, vertex conjunction being transited by chiron? and if it is, am i handling it okay? i just keep feeling like i need to be more capricorny. i only have eros and psyche in capricorn, but his 8th house falls in capricorn, so what he needs in relationships, right? (i just read this somwhere but i'm not sure if it's true?) and also balances all his cancer.

i am also unclear on lilith's role in a relationship and also how it would manifest conjunct my vertex and his mars! this also puts my mercury and mars at my anti vertex, making it even more complicated!

posted November 08, 2007 01:54 AM              

edit, later to add:

posted November 08, 2007 12:10 PM              

I wish I had more info for you about the vertex/lilith, etc... thing but I don't know much about it, either. I did find a pretty good site about transits, but it doesn't list chiron transits. Here it is, anyways:
http://www.planetaryvisions.net/index.html

posted November 08, 2007 12:48 PM              

i'm gonna write you back really soon and thanks for the link too!

posted November 08, 2007 12:51 PM            

Anything might have triggered that reaction in him, not just Chiron.

Remember, Mercury is communication and you naturally have Mercury conjunct Mars which suggests active and aggressive communication needs. His Mercury opposite your Mars is going to be a challenge for both of you. It has nothing to do with him being a Cancer, it's your chemistry together.

If you can both consider this measurement as "Healthy Debate" that might be one of the most healing way to think about it.

My best example is Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. They had Mercury opposite Mars in their chart comparisons and they are known for having been politicals friends and rivals as well as having one of the largest letter correspondences in history. Just google "Thomas Jefferson and John Adams" and watch what comes up.

I think the sooner you accept that you will both have stressful energies within your communications, the awareness of it will help you deal with it. I also like that you said there is something in this that is healing your attitude about how people are allowed to communicate with you. If your relationship is healthy, he won't take one "interrupted sleep anger" conversation too personally. I think everyone has had their sleep interrupted and lashed out, but it's almost forgotten the next day.

And remember, love can work wonders. I hope this clears up for you, first arguments are tough and those first bubbles of perfection the burst aren't much fun either, but they have to bust and you have to realize at some point that you are both just human beings.

Good luck,

Geocosmic Valentine

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"Everybody is a star!"

posted November 08, 2007 01:30 PM              

yeah, having my mercury and mars opposite his mars is an interesting challenge! i feel it big time and it is SO COOL that it can manifest as abundant correspondence! we write eachother soooo much! it is almost compulsive!

so far everything has been very smooth but i can see that when we both get fired up we tend to have this tension between us that is not normally there. it is subtle though and i find it kinda exciting to be honest cuz we both get very exuberant! but i can see that i have to be careful with this one! also, in there is his cancer sun 29 degrees and my jupiter 2 degrees leo, so there seems to be sort of a vague stellium there. most of our personal planets have really great synastry, but i can tell this relationship will not always be easy and will be deeply transforming (tons of saturn and pluto contacts), so i am learning to take it piece by piece. luckily i can feel the happier aspects carrying most of the energy.. and there is this great natural "fit" between us having our asc and dsc conjunct.

posted November 08, 2007 01:44 PM              

i can't find any info on this besides the obvious stuff about jobs, but i have been puzzling tons about this:

his MC is 15 aqua which is exactly conjunct my sun (with my 11 deg merc and mars in his 9th), and trine his 17 degree gemini ascendant. what i think of is that he needs to learn to become more aquarian AND sagittarian (his dsc is sag, which is also my asc/neptune/venus).. and with these oppositions i'm thinking maybe it's a challenge for him but necessary? also his NN is in the 11th. he thinks i am such a weirdo, but he loves it too.. does that sorta seem like a good assessment of that pattern?

posted November 08, 2007 01:59 PM            

I would not call Sun at 29 Cancer and Jupiter at 2 Leo a "vague" conjunction. That's a HUGE CONJUNCTION!! Forget about the signs for a moment and just think Santa Claus. Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system. The Sun and Jupiter together feels like a gift, it's reward, it's...THE OSCAR!! There is some general good luck and you can be sure that you make each other happy.

As far as Mercury opposite Mars, think of some TV shows where you know that two characters argue all the time, but they really love each other. Off the top of my head, I think of Raymond's parents on "Everybody Loves Raymond."

I actually hate that show, but I've seen enough to know that the parents are always fighting but when you get deeper into their story, beyond the everyday, you learn that they love each other beyond measure and that they have an AWESOME sex life right into their old age. It's hilarious.

I also think of Karen and her maid Rosario, on "Will & Grace." The two of them argue like cats and dogs, but the moment they learn they might have to separate because Rosario might be deported or someone mentions that Rosario should quit, they both cling to each other and can't bare the thought of not being together. It's funny on TV, but it might be a little more difficult without the laugh, but it's just another image I had.

Also, it reminds me that my family was the loud family on our block growing up. I'm a singer and people often ask me if I took singing lessons and I just tell them, "I never took lessons, we were just aloud to be very loud in our family and it was great for voice training."

So I urge the two of you to be LOUD AND PROUD!!

Geocosmic Valentine

------------------
"Everybody is a star!"

posted November 08, 2007 02:16 PM              

yeah, it's totally a weird thing and i think we both need to get used to it. i mean, the time we spent together was bliss city.. so sweet and cuddly and darling and emotional and calm and wonderful, but there is this peak of intensity that comes through every so often and i think it must be the marses and it totally shakes everything up! wooh! so i think yeah, we just have to get used to it.. and oh, about the vagueness, i mean the sort of looseness of the planets in leo thing we have going on.. maybe they all kinda interrelate?

that is awesome about the oscar. indeed i feel incredibly blessed with him. guess what else we have!? his jupiter is exactly on my IC trine my venus (exact)! woohoo! so jupiter plays a big role for us.

guess i gotta be used to the loudness and bigness of that! we have other stuff like his venus exactly trine my moon, but those are in cancer and taurus, so that is all the smooth sweetness.. while this other fiery stuff (also the jupiter/venus are fire) kinda jolts it up! oh and hey his uranus is exactly on my asc! so i'm getting the shivers and willies and any and every possible aspect of my being massaged, poked at and just generally stimulated by this guy!

posted November 09, 2007 12:19 AM            

I figured I'd jump in and give my 2 cents on this. My Sun in Sag exactly conjuncts my SO's MC.
It's hard for me to isolate aspects, but the way I think this aspect plays out for us is that he's always respected me and valued my perspective on things. He takes me seriously. He frequently runs his ideas past me and invites my advice/opinions. Since learning about our MC-Sun (new rapper? ) conjunction, I've been thinking of that aspect as the astrological reflection of that respect. It's an aspect I'm very thankful for b/c he's a Taurus Sun. He can be incredibly stubborn, but he always considers what I have to say, which is more than he does with most others!
He also has his Draconic Sun conjunct my Sun & his MC, so that may reinforce his attraction to and respect for the Sag way of life.

posted November 09, 2007 09:04 AM              

that's so great that you can loosen up his stubbornness with your sagittarian charms! i'm a taurus moon so i get the stubborn thing, that's forsure.

posted November 09, 2007 10:09 AM              

i am really glad this happened cuz it took our relationship to a new level! i called him up and i was feeling very courageous thanks to geocosmic's post and thinking of all that fire between us (we were soooo mellow and relaxed the whole time he was here so that is primarily how i have thought of our relationship, other than we also babble a LOT! lotsa air between us!) and i just basically told him how sorry i was for getting offended and we had a great conversation and within it we discovered that his reaction was somewhat in jest and i just missed it cuz i was feeling oversensitive, and that is just part of this huge spark between us that i think must be this mars-mars/mercury energy you were talking about that sort of has an element of loudness or almost competitiveness.. and i totally get that with him BUT the more i get to know him, the less i think we will ever really have severe misunderstandings! we just really get eachother and seem to want the same things so when either of us is nervous, the other soothes it away so naturally! maybe the marses act in some ways as a quick flash fire might in terms of eliminating debris that piles up.. comes on suddenly but is really benign and is quickly over. well, maybe that would be its most positive manifestation!

anyway.. geocosmic valentine, i am so grateful for your examples because i definitely feel what you are talking about and it has awakened this to me more. i've never felt quite so *myself* with anyone and i know i subdued my own fire in relationships before, and in this one i feel safe enough to express it.. and thank goodness for those comfy jupiter pillows that probably do a great deal to diffuse any potential mars clashes!!

thanks again