posted December 20, 2007 02:06 AM            

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John Wayne Gacy (March 17, 1942 - May 10, 1994) also known as The Killer Clown, was an American serial killer.

He was convicted and later executed for the rape and murder of 33 boys and young men between 1972 and his arrest in 1978, 27 of whom he buried in a crawl space under the floor of his house, while others were found in nearby rivers. He became notorious as the "Killer Clown" because of the many block parties he threw for his friends and neighbors, entertaining children in a clown suit and makeup, under the name of "Pogo the Clown." He was also in the Guinness Book of World Records for the longest sentence imposed on a mass murderer; he was given 21 consecutive life sentences and 12 death sentences.

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Randy Steven Kraft

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Randy Steven Craft (born: March 19, 1945 in Long Beach, California) is an American serial killer. He was convicted of 16 murders and is strongly suspected of committing at least 51 others.

During the 1970s and early 1980s, there were dozens of grisly homicides along the freeways of California, with some victims turning up in the neighboring state of Oregon. The victims were young men and teenage boys, most of whom were savagely tortured and sexually abused. Some had been burned with a car cigarette lighter, and many had high levels of alcohol and tranquilizers in their blood systems, indicating they were rendered helpless by drink and drugs before they were sadistically abused and killed.

The method of murder varied, with some strangled, some shot in the head, and others simply dying through a combination of torture and drugs. Quite a number of victims were in the military, hitching their way either to or from their bases. Others were teenaged runaways, hitchhikers, or were picked up by the killer in gay bars.

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posted December 20, 2007 02:23 AM            

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted December 20, 2007 10:28 AM            

John Wayne Gacy had Sun conjunct/parallel Moon in Pisces(Solar Eclipse)..
He also had Sun-Moon oppose/contraparallel Neptune too (Sun-Moon in occultation with Neptune)
He had a Sagittarius Ascendant
I think that the Solar Eclipse in occultation with Neptune indicate serious Neptune issues like deception,confusion,and things like psychoses
Even his Venus in Aquarius sesquiquadrate Neptune with only 1 minute of arc. His Pluto semisquare Midheaven with 52 minutes of arc can indicate intensity and possible power issues as issues with abuse,trauma.

I checked hard aspects to planetary nodes too. I have been using geocentric planetary nodes since watching Jeffrey Wolf Green's planetary node DVD and reading Zipporah Dobyn's Node Book. I even stopped referring to Lunar North Node as The North Node/South Node because I want to recognize the North Node/South Node of planets and other heavenly bodies. I have been leaning towards Evolutionary Astrology.

His South Mars Node in Sagittarius squares his Moon with 10 minutes of arc and Neptune with 24 minutes of arc, and that could indicate possible pastlife issues involving violence,aggression.
His South Jupiter Node in Gemini squares Moon with 1 minute of arc and Neptune with 14 minutes of arc indicate possible issues involving being judgmental,self-righteous.
The opposition of his South Mars Node and North Jupiter Node square the opposition of his Moon and Neptune to form a grand cross,and all aspects are less than half a degree. This configuration could indicate an extreme self-righteous,violent nature as a well as passive-aggressive tendencies and deception involving women (he was in a closet about being gay....on the down low..so to speak....and he hid his past sexual molestation conviction from others)

His South Uranus Node in Sagittarius squares his Midheaven with 1'07 orb indicates being very unpredictable,unstable possibly stemming from pastlives.

I actually watched a DVD movie about him last weekend!

posted December 21, 2007 05:35 PM            

any ways...Mustang made a good point. a lot of serial killers do have strong watersign influences and Neptune influences. That doesn't mean that all nor most strong watersign influences and Neptune influences are serial killers. It also doesn't mean that all nor most serial killers have watersign,Neptune influences.

we have to remember that high sensitivity doesn't rule out criminal tendencies. Like I said before, it may not be the insensitive people to watch out for but the overly sensitive people.

a well known serial killer, Richard Ramirez has Sun and Moon in Pisces.

female serial killer,Ailleen Kournos had Sun in Pisces.

BTK Killer Dennis Rader had Sun in Pisces

my mother was very abusive to me both physically,verbally to me, and she has Sun in 12th trine Neptune,and so she has Sun-Neptune double whammy. She also have Ascendant,Mercury,Venus,Jupiter,and Uranus in Cancer along with Moon and Saturn in Scorpio. She has very strong water chart overall.
Her problem has been that she's very hypersensitive,overly emotional. She gets upset very easily. The more she gets upset,the harder it is for people to reason with her. She go off like mad woman. She definitely has done that to me. She has history of insecurity. Talk to her like she's stupid or get smart with her,and she gets mad. She even admitted that she didn't feel smart until I was a teenager. She told me that has a lot of dyslexic symptoms. She show strong signs of ADHD symptoms including impulsivity,hyperactivity. She has diagnosed anxiety,depression disorders. She seems to show signs of bipolar, and she even told me that she can grandiose...she said that about being alcoholic.

My mother told me that my father hit her because he was jealous and thought she was seeing somebody. He hit her with a pan one time. Another time, he tried to hit her, my mom took a knife and cut his arm open. She moved to Sacramento to San Francisco to get away from him. This was a man that was usually mildmannered,unusually good natured, and said things like "don't say that about people, God don't want you doing that" He was very shy too because of his speech problems that included stuttering,cluttering as well as was awkward with his hands. He needed things repeated to him. My father had significant Dyslexic,Dyspraxic traits.
He was also diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic by prison psychiatrist. Keep in mind, a lot of black males tend to get misdiagnosed that.
This was before he even met my mom.

any ways...my father had Moon in Pisces like me,and it disposited by stationary Neptune sextile Mars in Scorpio.

OJ Simpson killed Nicole Brown Simpson. He has Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Cancer along with Moon in Pisces.

strong watersigns,Neptune influence doesn't rule out dangerous tendencies.
also there are definitely other things that factor too.

I also want to point out that just because a person has challenging aspects involving doesn't necessarily mean that they are dangerous,nutty.

posted December 21, 2007 05:49 PM            

Note Sun in last degree of Cancer.

posted December 21, 2007 06:00 PM            

Apologies for having inadavertently left a smiley on the above post. It shouldn't be there.

posted December 22, 2007 11:45 PM              

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Congrats MUSTANG, that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard in my life

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Oh really? Why? If you're going to say something so awful to me I'd like to at least hear what you think gave you the right to call me "retarded?" Not to mention it's a personal insult. It's one thing to disagree, but there's no need to name call.

I'm about to leave this board. It's getting bad in here.

I agree with Glaucus that it's an awful word - I have two mentally disabled nephews, so I really don't like to hear people say that to someone.

posted December 23, 2007 04:28 AM            

Yeah...I hate that word, "retarded" because when I was placed in special education with the mentally retarded in 1st grade because of my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia. Even when they found out that I have above average intelligence,I was placed in special education class with learning disabled(in UK,learning disabled refers to people with global delays..In USA, learning disabled refers to people who problems processing information in some way and have at least average intelligence). There were maybe some high functioning autistics were too. I was called "retard" on a routine basis by regular school children during my special education years.
A lot of people think special education is for the mentally retarded.

Actually,yesterday I was trying to discuss my petition to stop misdiagnosing neurodivergents in a depression chatroom on yahoo. I figured that with many neurodivergents having history of depression like me, then maybe there were some neurodivergents in depression chatrooms. Well...I got called retarded by a lot of people there because I mentioned about my being in special education. Also one lady assumes that all Dyslexics can't spell. They don't consider that there are Dyslexics that get early interventional special education therapies help remediate. I was even told that I was getting speech therapy because I was retarded. They even told me that I was bipolar too. I was angry.

The bright side of this is that well..it justifies my being a Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,learning disability,neurodivergent,neurodiversity advocate because there are people that think that special education and the need for speech therapy means retarded. Also a guy messaged me,and he was pretty cool explained to me that there usually is rude behavior there. It's really not a depression chatroom. It's more like a depressing chatroom. A lot of rudeness,name calling and that can make somebody depressed even more....especially if they have insecurity,low self esteem.

BTW...Please don't leave the group. Please stay. I made a mistake when I left because I took things too personally that I was blind to see that there were others that thought I was cool. I think that you're cool too,and so I feel that you should stay and just ignore the person and others that bother you. You know that she was wrong for saying what you said was retarded,and that's all that matters.

Merry Christmas

peace

posted December 23, 2007 04:39 AM            

Anyways, I didn't mean for this to be about water sign murderers, because there are plenty of murderers in all signs, as I said above. It was more about the similarity between these two psychos who were born two days apart and committed the same atrocities involving young boys and young men. I just found it odd.

Aqua, sorry if the thread ended up sounding offensive to Pisces or Cancer and water signs in general.

posted December 24, 2007 12:50 AM            

I checked Billy the Kid's chart
Moon was in Scorpio throughout the whole day, and it was in grand trine with Jupiter in Cancer and stationary retrograde Neptune in Pisces. His Mercury in Sagittarius square Neptune too.
so he had a significant watersign,Neptune influence.

He had Sun in Sagittarius oppose/contraparallel parallel Uranus in Gemini, Sun-Uranus occultation which indicate somebody erratic,rebellious...an ideal aspect for an outlaw.

posted December 24, 2007 02:27 AM              

the femine signs are represented by nocturnal species which lie under the radar. fish for example are under water. crab live there also. scorpions and lizards, snakes and spiders(scorpios) are also very nocturnal in nature. the goat makes its way to the mountain tops to avoid confrontations with the more agressive predators. the way these animals go about killing make us feel uneasy because its done mysteriously(common serial killers)in the darkness.

A mars conjunct sun in Aries, Sag, Leo will not be shy in killing. These are the ones that call you out at high noon for a gun battle. They are the ones that will meet you out near the bike rack for a knife/fist fight. these are the ones that will pull a gun during a card game and shoot you point blank in the face.

if you want to find something significant in a chart for serial killers, look at mars for the open masculine sun sign killers and pluto for the feminine sun sign killers.

the feminine signs will hide.

the masculine will do it under the sun for all to see.

posted December 24, 2007 04:23 AM            

I know my mother well. Even though she has Sun in Gemini, she has Cancer and Scorpio traits are so dominating
She does have Ascendant,Mercury,Venus,Jupiter,and Uranus in Cancer as well as Moon conjunct Saturn in Scorpio. Her Moon squares Pluto too. She even shows strong Piscean traits, and her Sun is in 12th trine Neptune.

My Aries girlfriend has strong Scorpio traits that she acknowledges. She has Moon in Scorpio conjunct Pluto. She also has strong Saturn traits with her Moon conjunct Saturn.
BTW...My Girlfriend has Sun,Mercury,and Mars in Aries. She has never been in a physical fight.

My Capricorn father had strong Piscean traits with his Moon in Pisces with its dispositor,Neptune stationary. Martin Luther King Jr who was also a Capricorn showed strong Piscean traits with his Moon in Pisces. Martin Luther King Jr also showed some Aquarius. He had Mercury in Aquarius disposited by an unaspected Uranus. His Wife Corretta Scott King was a Taurus with Moon in Pisces. Capricorn Elvis Presley showed strong Pisces traits with his Moon in Pisces.

Michael Jackson has Sun in Virgo,and he definitely has strong Piscean traits,and he has Moon in Pisces.

I have very strong Piscean traits that are equal to my Scorpio traits. I have Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio with Moon in Pisces square Neptune which parallels my Mercury and Venus. I have other strong placements that counter Scorpio. I have strong Gemini traits with 4 planets including Mercury in 3rd house...My Mercury is even conjunct its apogee. I also have show some significant traits of Aquarius and Sagittarius with my Mars in Aquarius disposited by an unaspected Uranus trine Midheaven. Uranus is also my oriental planet.
I also have strong Mars traits too..I have Moon conjunct Mars. I also have Mercury-Venus square Mars.

A gal with Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Aquarius told me that she relate to Pisces more,and she has Moon in Pisces with its dispositor Neptune conjunct the Ascendant.

I have a friend who is a Libra and she has strong Uranian traits with her Moon square Uranus.

I have an uncle with Sun,Mercury in Virgo, he's very rebellious and hyperactive.
He has Moon in Aquarius with it's dispositor Uranus rising. He is also very controlling. He has Sun conj Pluto in 1st.

My grandfather has Sun in Cancer, but his Moon in Pisces traits were strong reflecting his alcoholism and his suicide(the ultimate escape from reality)......he was also very Scorpio-like,a very intense person......he had Scorpio Ascendant with dispositor Pluto parallel the Sun. He also has Moon trine Pluto. He was hyperactive too......he had Uranus oppose Ascendant.

My Scorpio Aunt Dominga has Sun conjunct Neptune in Scorpio in 12th,and she shows strong Piscean like traits. She also shows strong Sagittarius traits......she has Moon in Sagittarius.....she also has Uranus square Ascendant......it's hard for her to settle down,she's restless.

posted December 24, 2007 11:18 AM            

I was curious-do you know where oj simpson's planets fell in his chart and in nicole brown's chart? Did they have 8th house stuff going on or 12th house stuff?

posted December 24, 2007 02:15 PM            

My mother has strong watersign influence,and she had numerous suicide attempts. She has Ascendant,Mercury,Venus,Jupiter,and Uranus in Cancer with Moon and Saturn in Scorpio.

My maternal grandfather had strong watersign influence,and he did commit suicide by shooting himself.
It was his death that led me to believe in God again and get into metaphysical including Astrology. He had Sun and Pluto in Cancer, Moon and Saturn in Pisces, Ascendant and Jupiter in Scorpio.

I have a history of suicidal thoughts myself,and I have strong watersign influences. Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio with Moon in Pisces.

Even my Pisces cousin was saying that he wanted to die,and he was only 5 years old at the time. He has Sun,Mercury,Venus,and Saturn in Pisces as well as Jupiter and Pluto in Scorpio

so I am well aware that some people with strong watersign influences are suicidal and not homicidal.
some are both
some are neither

btw...Vedic Astrologers put more emphasis on the Moon than Sun.
They even read charts as the Moon as the Ascendant....called Chandra Lagna.....they use them in natal..and they read transits primarily from Chandra Lagna

so it's more of a cultural thing imho

BTW...I believe that Moon is more important than the Sun..I feel that it's more personal...especially with it being unconscious,as well as instinctive.

also..maybe it really depends on how the planets are aspected. My Moon has a lot more aspects than my Sun...especially with it being the apex of a t-square. Also...My Sun is trine Moon and conjunct the lunar apogee/oppose lunar perigree. That indicate me strongly identifying with lunar symbolism. I do have strong feminine traits for a male.

Even in Vedic Astrology, my Sun is debilitated(being placed in Libra near its degree of debilitation) and my Moon is strong with it being a bright Moon and placed in kendra(angular house)7th house.

In synastry,I prefer compatible moonsigns than sunsigns.......I have that with my girlfriend who has Moon in Scorpio to go with my Moon in Pisces..even though she has Sun in Aries which is said to be incompatible with Sun in Scorpio, but share Mars as co-rulership if using Mars as co-ruler of Scorpio.

posted December 24, 2007 03:05 PM              

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Oh really? Why? If you're going to say something so awful to me I'd like to at least hear what you think gave you the right to call me "retarded?" Not to mention it's a personal insult. It's one thing to disagree, but there's no need to name call.

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posted December 24, 2007 04:16 PM            

I have talked about Astrology to people,and they called me "retard" for that.

a lot of people who are skeptical of Astrology believe Astrology is B.S. and see the madness in people talking about Astrology and practicing and using it as a guide. I knew a guy that said that Astrology is food for the credulous.

what you think is "retarded" may not be "retarded" to others and vice versa.

He wasn't even focusing on the placement of the sun any way.

He was talking about Neptune mainly.

furthermore, he even emphasized that there were a lot of watersigns that he know that are harmless.

I even made a point that strong Neptune/water influences don't rule out anybody being harmful to others. I wasn't referring to the sunsign either.

a lot people seem to think that just because a person is highly sensitive, they are harmless. They confuse sensitivity with consideration,compassion,kindness.
If you check out the dictionary, sensitivity means responsiveness to external stimuli like somebody have eyes that are highly sensitive,and so they need to wear sunglasses. Of somebody's skin is so sensitive,they don't like to shave or their faces turn reddish from irritation. Of somebody is so sensitive to temperature that if they are exposed to cold weather,they can get sick with a cold. Or people who have hearing so sensitive,they have to wear earplugs to avoid being waken up by noises outside.

also.....there are people who are overly sensitive and it manifest into a victim/martyr complex.....often it could be from abuse, and so some of these people might even think that it's the world against them when it's not. Of maybe if they have picked on so much, they automatically think that somebody is picking on them when they are not. Some of those people might feel the need to protect themselves even though they don't need protection,and this could manifest into serious violence.