posted December 23, 2007 01:01 AM              

First, the order of the planets seems to be consistent somewhat with the signs. Why is there a jump out of sequence with scorpio/pluto? Meaning, the rulerships ending in aquarius and pisces for uranus and neptune make sense and mark the end of the zodiac and the planetary scheme. I think pluto does not rule any sign. The essence of pluto is regeneration and transformation. It is often slow and cataclysmic. These are not qualities I have seen in any scorpio I know. Scorpio associates much more easily with mars. It is passionate, intense, emotional, sensitive, willful, deliberate, strategic, etc They are not large group oriented and do not relate to transpersonal notions and the societal shifts that pluto deals in.

Given that the plutonian process is fundamentally about regeneration and transformation, endings and beginnings - something which applies to life as a whole and not to any one sign - I think it makes sense in its position circling everything else as a planet not involved in any sign. Constituitionally it is different than the other outer planets which are all gas giants. It is unique and has its own character physically and as representative of its spiritual energy. Each sign, person and earthly process goes through death and rebirth in some way. I honestly do not see much in scorpio that is about endings and beginnings or regeneration. It is a sign that very much appreciates steadiness and consistency - like its opposing sign, taurus. Its addictive, passionate and sexual qualtities are consistent with mars. Pluto is not sexual.

I have been studying the asteroids for a while and it makes sense to me that they are connected to the "relational" signs of leo, virgo, libra and scorpio. Specifically, I see vesta as co-ruler of scorpio with mars. Vesta is about deep commitment, sharing intimate spaces and resources (8th house) sensuality and other very scorpio traits. It consistently shows up in aspect in charts between close friends, long term romantic partnerships and marriages. People who have it in aspect to their personal planets in their natal chart often have a trustworthy and loyal sense about them.
It makes intuitive sense that the asteroids co-rule the relational signs as they are fundamentally about relating to another in a mostly one to one way. Leo may go with juno which is intensely charming and sexually appealing (check out all the celebrities with strong juno aspects). Virgo would go with ceres which is about harvesting, reaping, good health and material nurturing. Libra perhaps with pallas which I am the least clear on but seems to be involved with good judgment, balancing factors and strategizing based on a good sense of balance - a fundamentally libra trait.

I propose these rulerships in addition to the traditional leo-sun, virgo-mercury, libra-venus, and scorpio-mars. The notion of co-ruling fits well with the duality in relating that goes with the middle "relational" signs.

posted December 23, 2007 01:17 AM              

Second...I think all of the signs have characteristics of other signs. For example, Uranus is the ruler of Aquarius. But every sign has the power to be an individual and to take on "Uranus" Characterics.

I agree with you that not every Scorpio exhibits transformational energy, but most people, myself included, because I'm nowhere near perfect, exhibit the shadow sides to their signs at least some of the time. So maybe the scorpios you've met have been knee-deep in a lot of muck and weren't elevated to the apex of their sign, but they have the capability to do so. For scorpio, Pluto is perfect. It's associated with the underworld and all that is dark, BUT it is also associated with rising above all of that IF they choose to do so. Its associated with scorpio because in order to reach the heights of compassion you have to reach the extreme lows of destruction in yourself.

Remember: Mars is still co-ruler of Scorpio, so they do still have martian-like qualities, but it's not the same as aries because they also have pluto as a ruler.

Uranus/saturn are corulers of Aquarius and as an aqua, I can feel both influences.

Jupiter/Neptune are both co-rulers of Sagittarius, and they exhibit both qualities at times.

By the way, I now have an interest in vesta.

posted December 23, 2007 01:32 AM              

However, and I know scorpios will take all this more to heart than everyone else - every person has transformational energy. Every sign has the ability to be "in the muck", decadent and indulgent in its way. Plutonic qualities are about destruction and rebirth and this is a *universal* quality not unique to scorpio.

posted December 23, 2007 01:32 AM              

Where's your vesta?

posted December 23, 2007 05:12 AM              

MUSTANG, my vesta is in aquarius. most of my asteroids are. it's weird how asteroids seem to huddle into stelliums with personal planets in a lot of charts i've seen. i wonder if there is some explaination for that.. hmm.

posted December 23, 2007 05:20 AM            

and this symbol is deeply connected with death, whereas the symbol for Taurus is not. The passionate/sexual traits of Scorpio can be explained in two ways - one is that Pluto appears cold (just like Scorpio appears cool and collected) whilst having a lot of hidden strength/passion/feeling. The other explanation is that Mars continues to rule Scorpio - It is a co-ruler. Many astrologers still consider Mars to be dignified in Scorpio.. just like Jupiter is still dignified in Pisces. Mars doesn't have to cancel Pluto out. It could be a sub-ruler or a co-ruler.

You mentioned Ceres. I think Ceres is well suited to Taurus as 'mother earth' or 'goddess of the earth'. There are many connections between Ceres and the Moon. It's almost like a second Moon.. and the Moon is exalted in Taurus. Ceres and Pluto are part of the same mythological story. They are now both considered 'dwarf planets'.. I find this interesting because I always saw Ceres as much more influential in a chart (when compared to the other asteroids). I think it would make sense for Scorpio to be ruled by Pluto and for Taurus to be ruled by Ceres - as opposing signs. I myth, Pluto and Ceres have conflicting interests. Pluto wants to keep Ceres' daughter in the underworld as his wife, while Ceres wants her daughter back. Eventually they compromise and they both keep her for a few moths per year (can't remember how many).. but there is a tug of war happening – which is similar to the effect of an opposition.

posted December 23, 2007 09:12 AM              

Photo by Giovanni Benintende, IC 342 Spyral Galaxy in Camelopardalis.

Scorpio is the relationship house for Taurus; the career house for Aquarius; and the house of home and security for Leo. This interpretation works for Scorpio rising as well.

VESTA, the eternal fire, is in your birth sign as the year begins. The fourth and brightest asteroid, discovered in 1807, she is perhaps the most difficult for astrology to grasp. Delineations of Vesta vary widely, including over-dedication to work, involvement with projects rather than people, the use of space, all matters relating to the home, sublimation of sexual energy into other things, the shame of sexual abuse, sexual chastity, and a few others. To some real extent, they are all applicable -- but not one at the expense of another. Vesta, much more than the other asteroids, presents us with the goddess of a thousand faces, though this may relate to cultural taboos about what we can and cannot speak of openly, more than to any other factor.

Her themes, as far as I understand them, are strikingly similar to those of Scorpio. Though Vesta is only a brief visitor to Scorpio, her presence in your birth sign is likely to be arriving with experiences that will set the tone for these seasons, and which you would do well to remember.

Let's focus on the image: a flame. The symbol is a chevron with the fire depicted. The Vestal Virgins, servants of the goddess Vesta who were legendary for their unfailing chastity, had the role of tending this fire night and day, never allowing it to go out. Their role was to place service to the greater good above their own personal desire and needs. From this, we can see where some of the ideas above originate. What we cannot forget is that the symbol is very simply one of a flame that must be tended constantly, and as a direct extension, the "selfless" dedication necessary to do that.

Granted, I have never read anything resembling this in any explanation of Scorpio, quite to the contrary: but astrology is about experience and not just about what you read. It also depends on what you read, and what you do with it. Let's look at the mythology for a moment. Vesta, the goddess, is a personification of fire, one of the primal forces of the cosmos and the very thing central to human survival. On the short list of things that human beings do that no other species does is make and tend fire. "[Vesta] continued to the end, as she had from the beginning, [representing] the household altar, the sanctuary of peace and equity, and the source of all happiness and wealth." The aspects of life that she oversaw were not just the hearths of households and cities. Rather, it was supposed in ancient times "that in the center of the Earth there was a hearth which answered to the hearth placed in the center of the universe."*

When we bring the Vestal Virgins into the picture, we have the image of humanity working together to tend this fire: fire that is at once interior to a human being; that burns in their home; that burns in the central altar of a city; which burns in a hearth at the center of the Earth; and which is one with the fire at the center of the Universe. Perhaps this means the Galactic Core, perhaps some other presumed center of consciousness, such as Shamballa. The relationship between the humans and the fire implies devotion, attention, and direct participation in the life of God. In other words, the divine fire burns to the extent that we tend to it.

Few of us tend a fireplace or actual sacred hearth these days, and astrology is for the most part an interior study of our psychological and energetic properties. As a symbol of the psyche, the flame is usually considered an archetype of the core fire, which is creative and sexual -- they are the same thing. It could be interpreted as faith or devotion, love or awareness; they are all properties of the same thing. This is the heat that keeps us warm from within, and in the human realm with its many distractions and its many competing gods, it needs to be tended constantly. Sadly, as humans press forward into the activity of life, their core creative/sexual nature is one of the first things we tend to ignore.

Now, Scorpio is the sign that tends to bear the burden of sexuality in the Western world. Scorpios are presumed to be sexual, and all astrological definitions of your sign say so. I'm sure you're familiar with these ideas, nearly all of which miss the point. The problem with sexuality in the West and in many other cultures is that it's considered inherently inappropriate, an aspect of human nature that (despite being what creates us) we need to ignore, bypass, deny, discard, eliminate or find a substitute for. The notion "sin" implies sex, sin implies hell, and so on and on till you get there. But take my word for it: this is not coming from Goddess -- or Earth-based religion. Only death-cults or purity cults could come up with this kind of reasoning.

More to the point, as a Scorpio it's obvious to you what a crock of ******** this is, because the moment you feel your existence for about 20 seconds, the truth of your core sexuality becomes obvious. While you are basically barred by your inherent nature from going on a denial trip (unless you are genuinely willing to flirt with evil, or are in some extreme form of conflict), how you actually use your sexual energy is very much a question, and one that needs to be addressed. So, too, is how you deal with a world (including the influences of your parents, your partners and your friends) that are not necessarily as aware as you are. Indeed, you must contend with a world that is constantly projecting its shadow onto your soul.

Finally, there is the issue of how to handle your own shadow material -- and I suggest that the thing to do is tend your fire around the clock. If need be, marshal all the force of your will and claim back enough of your life that you have an inner altar and sufficient time and space to take care of it in a tangible, real, actual way. I am not talking about an idea here. I am not presenting a theory or a concept. I am suggesting that the actions you take be actual, real and tangible. This may, in the most immediate sense, involve making friends with your sexuality in a new way. You must not take for granted that the blanket of ignorance that is smothering humanity, and the raging creative fire that is engulfing humanity in warfare and driving us on a path of global self-destruction, has somehow avoided you. Perhaps it may have; please don't assume.

Please assess your life honestly, including what you do with your time, your strength and your authority. Seek the assistance you need; put the support in place that you need; take responsibility for your own journey on this planet, and surround yourself with people for whom this is a conscious process -- and note, they may be difficult to find; and that is very likely to be part of your vestal journey this year.

Let's consider the story of Pluto, which is your ruling planet and which has been one of the dominant energies in the world story the past decade. Pluto has been in Sagittarius, your 2nd solar house. The 2nd house denotes the value system of an individual. It describes a person every bit as much as their primary sign, but is often experienced as being more internally oriented, perhaps something felt and lived for but not spoken. Sagittarius is the cosmic fire. Indeed, the two central points of the cosmos of which astronomy is now aware -- the Galactic Core and the Great Attractor -- are located in your 2nd solar house. Here is where we get a positively enormous clue as to what is going on at the center of your reality; what you actually feel and experience as driving your motives, and the concept is pure Vesta in nature: that at the center of an individual is a sense of one's origins and the desire to live for your origins.

The exterior may be passion, drive, eroticism and the need to shape your own life; the exterior is the cosmic fire. Whatever you do, you can do in the expression of the cosmic fire. Which brings us to the unspoken theme of Vesta -- that being what is called sacred prostitution. This is actually a simple concept, though known to few, and rather few prostitutes: whatever we do, we do in service of creation. This is the metaphor of tending the fire; this is the metaphor of shaping one's life around what must be done, in accord with your values. Pluto burning through this house for more than a decade has compelled you to do some important, difficult things, indeed, many of which have been incomprehensible to the people around you and which have seemingly been damaging to you. But you have, by your faith and your awareness, prevailed over the stuck values of the world that would have had you serve many other masters, none of them true. I trust that at long last you are discovering that if you can trust nobody else's agenda, you can trust your own.

This trust has come at a cost, which you have paid. The debt is settled. It is time to move on.

If there is a crisis associated with your astrology in these years, it's something that (once again) is decidedly left out of the official Scorpio guidebook, which is the extent to which your foundations stand on the bedrock of community. This is a logical extension of the idea that you are inherently part of the cosmos. It is an extension of the idea that you know you must, in this lifetime, be a leader, if only a leader in conscience and consciousness. Your devotion to community (in whatever form that takes) is a direct outgrowth of the fact that you intuitively understand that society is a family, and that you are not only part of that family, but one who has been bestowed the responsibility of tending for and caring for that family.

In the typically coarse or cynical terms of the human race, this is often viewed as a joke, or a ridiculously idealistic sentiment. That does not deter you, indeed, it must not. What has begun to occur in these years of your history is precisely that you have begun to take yourself seriously on this subject. You have entered a space of willingness to embrace the crisis of brotherhood that humanity is suffering from today. You have, I trust, made friends with the fact that there is no security in the religion of individuality. Rather, individualism is worth something only to the extent that it allows us to relate to others consciously, to serve others, and to participate in our collective experience of life.

Pluto, your modern ruling planet, is crossing the Galactic Core this year, and if you want an image for all that wood stove, Vesta, sacred flame imagery, there is one. When in doubt, tune into the largest scale you can. When in doubt, feel the whole strange turmoil boiling inside yourself. Trust that making space for yourself to love safely, to create shamelessly and to live like your life matters will heal the universe, not symbolically, but in the actual truth. Trust your judgment. Trust your leadership, even if you do so on the basis that you keep finding people who don't have any clue at all -- and you, at least, have half of one -- probably a good bit more.

One thing you know is that you're alive. You actually know this; check it out. By some odd coincidence you are alive right now, and that, lucky for you, is the only time that matters because it's the only time there is.

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posted December 23, 2007 02:23 PM              

I read somewhere that Scorpio is the femininity of Mars. Meaning that Scorpio is the introverted side of the same planet.

posted December 26, 2007 12:23 PM            

quote:

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People go through transformations yes, but scorpio people go through an INNER transformation.

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Well, I cannot agree with this; sounds like if you are not lucky to have Sun in Scorpio then you have no chances for inner transformation or spiritual growth it just does not make sense.

Pluto transits are mostly about death or extremely traumatic experiences, I agree with Bucketrider Pluto has nothing to do with sexuality; in my opinion, sex itself is too shallow, too routine to cause transformation or spiritual growth, no matter how much exciting it might be.

posted December 26, 2007 12:25 PM            

BTW..I don't believe sex is too shallow. It really depends on how a person views sex. For me,sex is the merging of souls,uniting in body and soul, with the souls devouring,engulfing each other in an intensity that takes each other over. It could be a release of pent up feelings. The orgasm itself is not superficial. It's very emotional,deep...it can be a very soul-binding experience. I find that sex with the one that you love is very meaningful. Meaningless sex as in "screwing" or "f'ing" that is superficial to me. Sex while being filmed is superficial to me. Having sex to express how deeply love you're partner,that is very deep and spiritual to me. Also having sex to procreate to bring another soul into the world who turns out to be the most important person in you life, that's not superificial. For me, I refer to sex as "making love".

Some even use sex for magickal purposes. There is something that's called sex magick.
Kama Sutra is also a spiritual type of sex. Tantra too.

posted December 26, 2007 12:39 PM            

Function: Power, energy reserve

Expression: Mighty thoughts, mighty actions, great force, immense power, great effort, intense urges, intensity of purpose, great strength, potential power, reserves of energy, highest authority, dynamic equilibrium, power plants, forced regimentation, coercion.

Manifestation: Great strength (physically, mentally, mechanically, and so on), potential energy, power plant

The name Vulcanus sounds very scorpionic to me and discribes its nature quite accurately

quote:

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Some even use sex for magickal purposes. There is something that's called sex magick.
Kama Sutra is also a spiritual type of sex. Tantra too.

---

posted December 26, 2007 12:50 PM            

A lot of people have different views about magick and sex.

How can hypothetical planet,Vulkanus rule Scorpio???

Why not just stick to actual physical sighted bodies.

but if you use hypothetical planet, why not use Hades?

To me, Pluto fits well with Scorpio but I use Mars as co-ruler. I use Jupiter and Neptune as co-ruler of Pisces as well as Saturn and Uranus as co-ruler of Aquarius.

It really depends on how one uses Astrology.

I don't put a lot of emphasis on zodiac signs in Astrology any way...I focus more on planetary geometry. I am thinking of actually using the actual constellations.

I have doubts that tropical zodiac works for Southern Hemisphere. I don't see how a northern hemisphere season-based zodiac works on people born in southern hemisphere. I don't like doing charts born in that area. I'd work on using a constellation zodiac astrology which includes Ophiuchus. I could lean more towards cosmobiology which doesn't use signs nor put much emphasis on zodiac signs. They use midpoint pictures to get more information that they feel that they don't need to use houses.

It really depends on the astrologer and system.

Magick involving transformation http://www.tacticalmagic.org/CTM/thoughts/transformation%20magic.htm http://www.meta-religion.com/Esoterism/Magick/kinds_of_magick.htm http://www.luckymojo.com/esoteric/occultism/magic/9410.sci-mgk.tn2

posted December 26, 2007 01:05 PM            

I think the most important transformational event was when my mom was shot when I was with her at the time...that was 3 days before my 3rd birthday. Sun was in Scorpio at the time. Transiting Pluto was square my Sun/Moon midpoint.

posted December 26, 2007 01:08 PM            

P.S> sorry for off topic

posted December 26, 2007 01:10 PM            

Then my chart revealed that:

My ASC is Scorpio, and it is conjunct my Jupiter in Scorpio and... Mars in Scorpio is also in my first house, in a loose conjunction.

Also, My ASC is loosely conjunct my Pluto, although my Pluto is in another house and sign altogether.

Aside from that... there are numerous Pluto aspects in my natal chart.

I am not learned enough to say much, but whatever Pluto rules, it rules me.

Although Scorpio is Co ruled by Mars also... personally I feel more inclined to Pluto because whatever I feel, think, see, etc. I alsways react to it in a brooding way, like still waters that run deep.

I am not like white water rapids... I feel like the current beneath it.

If you anger Mars... they will most likely retaliate immediately. But, I, on the other-hand am not easily angered, and when I do get angered... if I decide to act back... you would probably think it is life doing it, not me. So, Pluto is subtle in its intensity and Mars is filled with bombast.

I am Pluto.

posted December 26, 2007 01:16 PM            

Because tantra is a mystical tradition it is very hard to define. In essence tantra is transformation and can be linked to alchemy: the transformation of the everyday into the divine. It is a spiritual science and the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures known as tantras give instructions on a wide range of topics including science, astronomy, and rituals. The tantric texts include dialogues between the cosmic couple Shiva and Shakti; male and female tantric adepts. http://www.tantra.uk.com/page2.html

The literal meaning of "tantra" is to expand, to transform, to shape shift, to weave ... that part of our consciousness which is ready for a formidable gateway to a deeper understanding. http://www.ompalace.ca/tantra_yoga.htm

posted December 26, 2007 01:18 PM            

quote:

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Pluto transits are mostly about death or extremely traumatic experiences

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Bucketrider~

I agree somewhat with your hypothesis – that maybe all the signs should share Pluto But I can’t help but think of the Phoenix aspect of Scorpio relating to the regenerative/transformative aspects of Pluto…..

quote:

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First, the order of the planets seems to be consistent somewhat with the signs.

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Mercury – Virgo and Gemini
Venus – Libra and Taurus
Mars – Scorpio and Aries
Jupiter – Sagittarius and Pisces
Saturn – Capricorn and Aquarius

Perhaps ALL of the Outer Transpersonal planets should belong to everyone??
I don’t favor the dual rulerships by the seven primaries, steeped in antiquity though they may be. I think with all the dwarf planets and asteroids out there, that every sign should have a primary and secondary ruler. I like Vesta with Virgo and the temple-priestess aspect, and I also am very firm on Chiron having main rulership over Virgo and not Mercury. Your Pallas association with Libra is intriguing – I’ll have to read up on it Nibiru for Libra doesn’t resonate with me at all….. ( http://www.librarising.com/space/darkstar.html )

Unmoved ~