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Author Topic:   The significance of these karmic aspects?
Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2008 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gah! I'm soooooo frustrated!!! I am still working through a past relationship that was deeply transformational and although it ended in June last year it's seems to be taking forever for me to let it (and him) go. I find that letting go is easier for me if I can be clear on the reasons for why it must be done.

We have quite a few karmic connections between us and most of them I understand but a few if them are confusing.

For example, some of the ones I get:

Venus/Pluto conjunction and square

His personal name asteroid (in his chart) falling into my 12th house

His personal name asteroid (in my chart) conjuncting his Saturn

My Vertex conjuncting his Psyche in his 8th house

My personal name asteroid (in my chart) conjuncting his South Node

His Chiron falling into my 12th house


The three I'm having a hard time with:

My North Node conjuncting his Sun and Juno

My Juno (in the 5th) conjuncting his Vertex (in the 7th)

My Pluto/Karma in the 5th conjuncting his Pallas (exact to the minute) in the 7th

I have read over and over again that NN conjunct Juno indicates marriage but I have been seriously considering the fact that those Magi astrologers know more about Juno than we think. And I do believe that free will is more powerful than anything, but still...it nags at me.

Again, with my Juno conjuncting his Vertex I wonder about the traditional interpretations of Juno being about marriage as opposed to those of Magi astrology claiming that they are more about the mistress.

And finally, my Pluto and Karma conjuncting his Pallas has always felt significant but I'm not sure how to interpret it... Pallas is the Warrior Woman and survivor, so should I consider the fact that our relationship was meant (in part) to bring out those qualities in myself? I also found this on Pallas:

This asteroid also governs a woman's relationship with her father. The way you view your father or father figure affects how you think about men in your adult years. Whether you were Daddy's little girl or your relationship was less than golden, Pallas Athene dictates how you interpret that relationship and how you treat males in general. Do you see men as something to cling to, play with, fear, love, avoid, bond with, or loathe?


So if anyone has some insight on this or sees something I'm not seeing here...please feel free to contribute your thoughts. I need a fresh perspective. I'm all out.

Grazie.

***I should add here that I definitely do NOT fear, loathe or avoid men. I see men in a very positive way, although being the Cancerian I am, I admittedly do have a problem with all the clinging at times. (But I'm much better now, I swear!) ***

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted January 22, 2008 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Without looking at all the other stuff, The Venus-Pluto double whammies in synastry are very intense,transformational by themselves and can indicate possibility of problems letting go of the relationship due to the obsessive nature of those aspects.

What are the orbs of those aspects? What Pluto aspects do you have in your chart?

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Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2008 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I definitely know that the Venus-Pluto aspects are playing a huge role in preventing me from letting go completely. That's why I was hoping to find out some more info on the aspects which confuse me, in case they somehow lend themselves to some kind of epiphany.

Yeah, I know, it's a long shot.

My Pluto conjuncts his Venus a bit widely (6 orb, approaching) but my Venus squares his Pluto with a 0 degree orb(separating).

In my own chart:

Pluto in Libra in the 5th House

(All orbs are 2 degrees or less, unless indicated.)

Sun square Pluto (6)
Moon biQuintile Pluto
Mercury trine Pluto
Venus square Pluto (5)
Mars semi-square Pluto
Neptune sextile Pluto
AC trine Pluto (6)
MC trine Pluto

Also, Pallas, Vesta and Osiris trine Pluto, Isis squares Pluto and Karma conjuncts Pluto.

North Node and Uranus in Scorpio.

Transiting Pluto currently at the beginning of my 8th house.

And a deep love for all Scorpios, for better or worse.

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted January 22, 2008 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"My Pluto conjuncts his Venus a bit widely (6 orb, approaching) but my Venus squares his Pluto with a 0 degree orb(separating)."

the first aspect is too wide. Your Venus square his Pluto with 0 degree orb is definitely valid. That can indicate a very intense,obssessive love connection.

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Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2008 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, but the thing is that my Venus squares almost everyone's Pluto in my generation. My Pluto, however, only conjuncts anyone who has Venus in Libra. The only two people I have ever known with Venus in Libra are my 2 ex-boyfriends, both born on the exact same day, 8 years apart. They both have Venus at 2'18 Libra and these men represent the two most influential, transformational and, yes, obsessive-type love relationships I have ever had.

I know 6' is wide, but when it comes to Venus and Pluto, I see them as being more powerful than, say, a Mercury or Jupiter influence.

And of course I don't believe in co-incidence so I do think that the conjunction has merit, but more than anything, I feel it does intuitively.

What do you think of this Pallas conjuncting Pluto/Karma?? Does it mean anything to you?? For what it's worth, I also have Pallas conjunct my Ascendant.

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LeoCat
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posted January 22, 2008 10:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Glaucus, what orb do you use in synastry? I use under 4. Reasonable?

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted January 22, 2008 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I use tight orbs with outerplanets in synastry because they are generational and slow moving.

I don't use no more than 1 degree orb for Pluto because it's so slow moving and generational. I use no more than 2 degree for Neptune and Uranus. I believe that synastry aspects with outerplanets have to be tight because they are generational and slow moving.

Now that Eris is discovered,and its larger than Pluto. I believe that Eris needs to be included too.....I would use no more than 30 minutes of arc because it's slower moving than Pluto. Also Ceres is promoted to dwarf planet and it's equal to both Eris and Pluto.


I also use no more than 5 degree orb for other synastry aspects.

The composite chart can also give insights into the relationship too. You can compare the composite to natal charts to see how the relationship affects the individuals.


Pluto is one of many kuiper belt objects( objects beyond Neptune). There are objects that can be just as transformational as Pluto

objects like Eris which is larger than Pluto, Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,Ixion

there are even 2 objects that are not only the 3rd and 4th largest kuiper belt objects, but they are also the 3rd and 4th largest minor planets. They have yet to be named.
They are 2003 EL61 and 2005 FY9.


so kuiper belt synastry and/or composite aspects might reflect the intensity,transformation in the relationship.

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LeoCat
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posted January 22, 2008 11:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Glauc! Your answers are so helpful to me.

Gosh now I have to study up on all these other planets :{

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 23, 2008 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Would it be okay for me to check out your synastry?

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LeoCat
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posted January 23, 2008 12:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who me or Love?

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Glaucus
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Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
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posted January 23, 2008 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I meant Love's. I was curious about her synastry.

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LeoCat
unregistered
posted January 23, 2008 12:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus, do you use personal name asteroids? Do you think they have much significance? They blow me away!

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted January 23, 2008 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

My answer is YES!

I have been into them since 2000.

This is the astrologer who got me into Asteroid Name Astrology.
http://asteroidman.com/articles.html

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Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 23, 2008 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus ~

Feel free to give it a whirl

Me: June 23, 1976, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 3:52 AM

Him: Novemeber 1, 1972, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada, 2:38 PM

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venusdeindia
unregistered
posted January 23, 2008 08:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi, Love

have u checked ur charts for Draconic aspects ?.
they r very important in karmic synastry


a good thread on asteroids

More on Asteroids = ://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013894.html


JOHHNY CASH - JUNE CARTER ---- DRACO DRAMA - Lindaland http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/014290.html

Antonio Banderas and Melanie Griffith - Twin Souls? - Lindaland http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/014046.html


u will find karmic synastry aspects in these threads that can help u.

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Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 23, 2008 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Venus de India

I actually did the Draconics before we ever broke up. And they're fascinating as well.

I think part of the reason I'm having such a hard time is that when we broke up we were both so into the relationship and we'd found a way to communicate and work through differences that came up...so he actually didn't even have a reason for me when we broke up. He said he just knew he had to - that it was a choice he was making. That's been harder for me than I thought it would be...maybe he didn't want to hurt me with the real reason??

Also, 2 weeks prior to him breaking up with me, he told me that he could actually picture spending the rest of his life with me and it was the first time he'd ever felt that way for someone. I felt the same way he did and then 2 weeks later ---- poof.

We're still friends. I see him once a week usually for brunch or a drink or whatever. And it's hard, but I've never loved anyone so much.

So even though most of me accepts it's over and I am moving on, there is a part of me that is stubbornly clinging and I assume that's the part of me that feels cheated...like there was no good reason for all of it. No reason at all, in fact.

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted January 23, 2008 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I took a look at your synastry.

His Pluto squares your Venus with only 6 minutes of arc, and that is a very significant. That's powerful,intense, and it can be quite obsessive. Yes...it can feel like it's a deep,soul connection. That's how Pluto aspects can be.

Remember that the tighter the orb of the aspect,the stronger it is. It doesn't matter if it's generational or not...as long as it involves a personal planet in the synastry.
Another thing too is that Venus square Pluto is the tightest orb aspect in your synastry,and so the issues of the aspect can be a dominating influence in the relationship. When your tightest orb aspect is a challenging aspect, it's very likely that a relationship can be challenging.

Also..He has Venus conjunct Pluto in his chart,and so your Venus squares that. So the Pluto square is more personalized because of Venus conjuncting that aspect. Your Sun-Venus squares his Venus-Pluto.This definitely indicate a relationship that can be hard to let go because of the extreme intensity and possible obsession that Venus square Venus-Pluto tends to be about.
It can be very transformational.


From looking at his chart, he seems like a person who is confusing,hard to pin down,
He has Mercury-Neptune square Pisces Ascendant. This can indicate that his communications with others can be very confusing,hard to pin down, and there is a possibility of deception too.

The composite chart has Sun-Mercury square Neptune in 8th. This indicate that the relationship can be full of confusion,misunderstandings, as well as possible deception. Seeing that he has Mercury-Neptune square Pisces ascendant which matches the theme of that composite aspect,those issues could be very likely.
The composite actually has a t-square with the apex Neptune in Sagittarius 8th square the opposition Sun-Mercury in Virgo in 6th oppose Jupiter in Pisces in 11th, and this could indicate a great deal of idealism,wishful thinking that can affect the relationship especially when it involves practical,routine,every day things.

Seeing that Neptune aspect makes me wonder how well do you know this guy. He seems like he's really hard to pin down.

You have Mercury oppose retrograde Neptune in 7th,and that could indicate idealism in relationships, and there is a possibility of confusion,deception in relationships or having partners that are so hard to pin down,confusing, and/or could be deceptive and lie to you. Your Juno in Virgo squares that opposition too,and so that even adds to the Neptune in 7th house theme.

His Neptune quincunxes your Venus with 40 minutes of arc. That could indicate idealism in the relationship that can involve possible confusion,deception

I also notice that your Ascendants are in a close square, and that can indicate a strong physical connection, but it also indicates possible personality conflict. Close challenging aspects between any of the big 3(Sun,Moon,Ascendant) can be very challenging in a relationship.

Your Venuses trine each other's Ascendants....that indicates mutual attraction,affection. His Sun conjunct your North Node can indicate a karmic connection.

Your Sun-Venus trine Uranus forms a grand trine with his Ascendant,and that can indicate an exciting,unpredictable,love connection.


I wonder about his Moon in Virgo in 7th square Saturn retrograde in 4th. That aspect can indicate possible feelings of inadequacy,restrictions,limiations,pessmism that involves relationships and his domestic environment....it can be connected to his past..especially his mother.
It can also indicate the ability to be realistic,practical,grounded in relationships and his domestic environment too.

That would be something to check into. It looks like there could be some trust issues stemming from his past experiences with family.

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Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 23, 2008 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus ~

Thanks for taking the time to look into this. I really appreciate it.

You are right on most everything you said here. The only thing I think is worht mentioning is that although he definitely can be hard to pin down, I think one of the things he loved about me as well as one of the things that made him uncomfotable is the fact that I can see under his protective layer.

When I am so intimately bonded with another, I generally have predictive dreams about them and although he is an athiest, I know I made him a little uncomfortable with my 'knowings' at times. Also, I would always call him on his crap when no one else would. I remember him saying that I was the only person who knew what was really going on with him...and maybe in the end that made him feel too exposed? I certainly never used my understanding of him against him, but when you're that secretive, it must be a little uncomfortable to have someone see you.

As for deception, I suppose it could be true, although I think it might be more likely that he deceived me in telling me that he did not know why he was ending the relationship. I think he knows, unless all this deception has to do with him lying to himself??

<<<<<<I wonder about his Moon in Virgo in 7th square Saturn retrograde in 4th. That aspect can indicate possible feelings of inadequacy,restrictions,limiations,pessmism that involves relationships and his domestic environment....it can be connected to his past..especially his mother.
It can also indicate the ability to be realistic,practical,grounded in relationships and his domestic environment too.>>>>>>

I would say that's all true. He's incredibly rational and grounded although I think that's partly to protect his insecurities and feelings of inadequacy. On the outside, he always appears independant and emotionally self-sufficient (Capricorn NN) but I think he is afraid to surrender himself to someone...or else he just couldn't do it with me in particular.

I do know that he feels he has worked through all of his family issues, but I don't believe he truly has. His father was an alcoholic and died when he was about 14 years old. Interestingly, that was the same year that my parents got divorced and my mother moved in with my stepfather.

And you're right about me in that I tend to idealize relationships and so when I entered into this one, I made a very conscious and concerted effort to see him for who he was/is. And I found that I didn't care that he was an athiest or that we disagreed about minor things because I think I was really seeing him and I loved him.

Also, it felt different from any other relationship I'd ever had and it seemed like we were supposed to be together. The girl he'd loved the most in his life up 'til that point had the same birthday as me and the guy I'd loved the most in my life had the same birthday as him. We were born in the same city, and as we travelled through life we seemed to live parallel lives going to university in the same city and then living in the same city where we met.

His friends were all people who I'd gone to school with but somehow our paths never crossed. 7 years before I met "M", I met his best friend who went home that night and told "M" that he needed to meet me because he was going to love me! And then I met him 7 years later.

I know it's karma and I guess I must have done something really sh*tty to him in a past life. Because it feels like we're supposed to be together but somehow something got screwed up. And now I just wish I could let it go and accept with my entire being that it's over. I'm so tired of wanting to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.

Venting done.

Thanks again for your take on our chart

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jane
Knowflake

Posts: 1277
From:
Registered: Jul 2009

posted January 24, 2008 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus, what a gift you have!

Love,
What do you think of this Pallas conjuncting Pluto/Karma?? Does it mean anything to you?? For what it's worth, I also have Pallas conjunct my Ascendant.

It's something you've probably thought of already, but my take on that is that this relationship transformed you by teaching you to extend your innate Pallas nature (Pallas on the ASC) to the identity you express when in a love relationship. Perhaps before this relationship there was a dichotomy between the way you behaved when single and the way you behaved when in a relationship. Maybe you're naturally an independent and wise person (and all those Pallas traits), but in relationships you become more nurturing, self-sacrificing, and idealistic. And maybe it's for your own spiritual (karmic) benefit to transform your love nature into one that incorporates more of your Pallas nature.

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Love
Knowflake

Posts: 54
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 24, 2008 05:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I Know! Glaucus was terribly accurate.

You may be right Jane

It's funny, but it was only about a month ago when I found out that my birth time was all wrong. It's actually 2 and a half hours earlier than I was originally told (Thanks Mom).

So up until December, I didn't even know I had Pallas on the Ascendant, nevermind the shock and awe of finding out about my 12th house Moon and Neptune in the 7th. In other words, alot of things became alot more clear.

Having said that, it's been both fascinating and frustrating to go through my natal chart and my important synastry charts to see what's changed. The Pallas conjunct Karma didn't seem quite as significant before but now that I have Pallas sitting on my Ascendant, it takes on new meaning for me in regards to the purpose of my last relationship.

I think you may be right about your take on the karmic meaning. Thanks for that

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venusdeindia
unregistered
posted January 24, 2008 06:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lova
sorry to hear that. u can find someone who makes u happy


Glaucus
ur the one person who is fit to be a Love Guru. no joke
i have a question for u . how do u calcualte the apogee and perigee of planets ?
the Megadelf link that u gave has peri and api helion calculations, only the lunar nodes of planets are available not the apogess or perigees.

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darkdreamer
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posted January 24, 2008 08:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glaucus,

I love your way of interpreting synastries.

And I don`t know why, but everytime I read one of your interpretations, I feel the urge to tighten my orbs. lol

DD

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jane
Knowflake

Posts: 1277
From:
Registered: Jul 2009

posted January 25, 2008 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Love - Wow, that's a big difference! What's your Asc?
I haven't had that experience personally, but I have had friends and family members later correct the birth time they gave me for themselves. The new time always fit them better.

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Glaucus
Moderator

Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 25, 2008 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the compliments!
how do u calcualte the apogee and perigee of planets ?
the Megadelf link that u gave has peri and api helion calculations, only the lunar nodes of planets are available not the apogess or perigees.


the perihelion and aphelion calculations for the geocentric are the perigree and apogee.

if you change the default to heliocentric, then you will get the actual perihelion and aphelion.


remember that Perigree and Apogee are geocentric coordinates and Perihelion and Aphelion are heliocentric coordinates.


You will see a difference between those coordinates.....like the geocentric nodes, the perigree and apogee are not exactly opposite each other like the lunar nodes are

but if you use the heliocentric calculations,you will see that the north and south nodes for the planets are exactly opposite each other. The perigree and apogee are exactly opposite each other.


another thing too...there is no such thing as lunar node of planets. lunar node is only based on the moon's orbit.

planetary nodes are based on the correlating planets orbit.

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