posted June 10, 2008 01:48 PM         

I thought Chiron was representive of wounds, healing & helping others through the knowledge gained from the process.

quote:

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Chiron is also the key to the timing of when people marry those they love - this is because you are most likely to MARRY THE ONE YOU TRULY LOVE DURING CINDERELLA TRANSITS, and only Chiron creates Cinderella Transits.

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I've recently gone through these so called transits & I feel nothing like cinders. Tr.Chiron over Venus has brought up feelings of pain & woundedness about relating to others & my appearance.

Tr. Chiron was sextile Pluto the same time as Tr.Pluto was trine natal Chiron. Nothing romantic happened during that time. There was some energetic healing, but nothing in regards to relationships.

Does this Cinderella thing only work for the rich & famous???

posted June 10, 2008 02:26 PM         

I'm still waiting on those gold coins to fall from the sky.

You know, I can't completely say that I haven't had good fortune in my life. I have been marvelously blessed, even through my hard times. And that's not to say that Prince Charming won't show up at some point, but I find it very misleading to tell someone that Venus conjunct Chiron is a love aspect.

I have experienced Chiron as the wounded healer and maybe it works out that you only hurt the ones you love, or something like that. In Robert Greene's book "The Art of Seduction" he gives much creedence to what he calls "The Wound Theory" when in the seduction process. He says that if you continue to be nice and friendly through out a courtship, it never advances. At some point you have to do something to **** off the person you are trying to reel in. For some awful reason, it works.

You see it all up and down these message boards. Someone's spouse does something heinous to them, but they go back to that person and the bond is even stronger. Almost like you have to do something horrible in order for the other person to forgive you. Yes, it sounds sick and weird, but time and time again, I've witnessed it. So yes, maybe the Magi are onto something with the Chiron-Venus conjunction, but we are looking at it through idealistic eyes, rose-colored glasses when we might need to look at it and name it for what it is. There's some kind of masochistic chemistry to it and we all fall for it without admitting that we allow ourselves to be abused more often than not in the name of love.

I have a seriously difficult time with Magi astrology and the way they present it. It frightens me to the core to hear anyone teach anything with the attitude of, "It's right because we say so, just trust us on this one." Or, "Our method is the one and only way, all other traditional astrology is WRONG!!!!"

I mean, are they serious with that crap???

And I really want to believe that I'm a Cinderella with my Grand Trine of Jupiter-Neptune-Chiron, but I think we need to be very careful of "wishful thinking" and "wish Fulfillment" astrology. Yes, give me some hope, but don't convince me that my p00p doesn't stink or that money will fall from the sky because I have Jupiter trine Neptune.

I also think a lot of people are mislead into thinking things will be AOK with Chiron and they end up getting...frickin' WOUNDED by it. I've seen that happen here also, helped people clean up a few messes behind it as well, just in time to cure themselves or avoid further by trying to stick with a Chiron laden relationship when it's better for them to hop in a rocket and speed away from the person who is wounding them.

Whew, I'm exhausted. Anyway, I hope I said something useful or even recognizable.

Geocosmic Valentine
Professional Astrologer
geocosmicvalentine@yahoo.com
. www.myspace.com/geocosmicvalentine

posted June 10, 2008 02:35 PM         

However, I agree with Geo about Chiron representing the wounded healer, and love can be a great healer, maybe the best of all, but it will not be the romantic, fluffy, sweet, candid kind like the Magi say Chiron-Venus is.

On top of I have a problem believing that one single Chiron-neptune-aspect will determine the fate of a relationship. This is one of the most generational aspects ever! How does that work?

BUT I strongly believe in the concept of planetary geometry; this is something we should pay more attention to than just single aspects I guess.

Also, I like the idea of keeping the orbs tight.

But Chiron certainly is not the only sign of a soulmate, even though I agree that Chiron often is predominant in important relationships.

posted June 10, 2008 03:17 PM         

But I, like others like the declinations and geometry.

posted June 11, 2008 02:24 AM         

quote:

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And I really want to believe that I'm a Cinderella with my Grand Trine of Jupiter-Neptune-Chiron, but I think we need to be very careful of "wishful thinking" and "wish Fulfillment" astrology. Yes, give me some hope, but don't convince me that my p00p doesn't stink or that money will fall from the sky because I have Jupiter trine Neptune.

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Aren't you related to some famous musicians?

Don't you play music, and have been "blessed" by some success at that?

I'm your myspace friend, and I believe I've read that somewhere on your page..

Do you not think of yourself as a "cinderella" of sorts, because of this?

posted June 11, 2008 05:25 AM         

Of course Prince Charming will never expect you to file his tax returns, wash his underpants or remind him of his mother's birthday. He certainly wouldn't tell you that getting up to feed the baby is your job as he doesn't have t!ts (fair point, that one).

Meanwhile, back in the real world, relationships are hard work. If you have genuine feeling for each other and are prepared to put in effort and compromise you will be nearly there, but it is unlikely to be one long picnic in the sun.

posted June 11, 2008 12:05 PM         

You blew my mind with the statement of Chiron as "perspective". I learned that Pluto is perspective, and boy is it, but this Chiron perspective thing has intrigued me beyond words.

Could you explain a little further about the Chiron perspective issue. I keep thinking of Princess Diana as an example of a Cinderella (I know the Magi used her as an example of the transit and in comparison to Prince Charles, he made her a Cinderella). The perception was that she had a great life, the reality was that she was miserable.

Please, if you can, explain their theory of Chiron as perspective. All I could think about on my way to work was the many ways in which...(looking over my shoulder and whispering)...I am a Cinderella -sshhh!!

I must admit that the Magi's attitude puts me off so much that it makes me not want to dig. It makes me not trust their research. I don't trust them to be thorough, but you're doing a great job.

posted June 11, 2008 05:02 PM         

my thoughts exactly Geocosmic .. 'xcept i'd replace " frightens " with " annoys "
i think they are serious about getting folks to send them money ..
spin and hype .. almost like dr.goebbels might do astrology ..

i'd hate to think what magi astrology would make of my chart ..

actually the name " magi " seems to imply magical ..
i.e. no work or thinking required .. they have the magical formula ..

posted June 11, 2008 05:37 PM         

but I got more and more annoyed because of their attitude.
And now, when I read their articles, especially the last one on Barbara Walters (?), it seems like they abuse astrology to insult other persons.

posted June 11, 2008 05:53 PM         

That's why I stopped using Magi Astrology a long time ago. I was hardcore on it for a year or more back in 2000 to 2001.

posted June 11, 2008 11:24 PM         

Perhaps magi linkages, like the rest of our charts are simply tools hidden talents.. they dont activate themseves. we have to kick them into gear.

posted June 12, 2008 03:41 AM         

quote:

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I touched their system,

but I got more and more annoyed because of their attitude.
And now, when I read their articles, especially the last one on Barbara Walters (?), it seems like they abuse astrology to insult other persons.

It really makes me shudder.

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I personally feel that there system reflects more accurately the ACTUAL workings of a persons psyche.

In that light , I believe that Barbara Walters example was a GREAT example of most peoples HONEST approach to sexuality.

Honestly.. If you're well hung ( as a male)
OR well endowed in a female sense ( i.e. T&A), Do you not feel more confident in sexual matters?, and, does not that confidence boil over into your everyday lives i.e the "you know you want me, so lets do this this kinda attitude"

What gets me, is the "Love and Lighters/fundamental christian types etc.etc." who pretend that they don't long for a really good f#@k!!!

posted June 12, 2008 03:51 AM         

quote:

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Hi Luv and Light,

You blew my mind with the statement of Chiron as "perspective". I learned that Pluto is perspective, and boy is it, but this Chiron perspective thing has intrigued me beyond words.

Could you explain a little further about the Chiron perspective issue. I keep thinking of Princess Diana as an example of a Cinderella (I know the Magi used her as an example of the transit and in comparison to Prince Charles, he made her a Cinderella). The perception was that she had a great life, the reality was that she was miserable.

Please, if you can, explain their theory of Chiron as perspective. All I could think about on my way to work was the many ways in which...(looking over my shoulder and whispering)...I am a Cinderella -sshhh!!

I must admit that the Magi's attitude puts me off so much that it makes me not want to dig. It makes me not trust their research. I don't trust them to be thorough, but you're doing a great job.

Geocosmic Valentine

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I LOVE their "attitude"..

I LOVE reading that they think most traditional astrologers are full of Sh$T!!

I LOVE that they give MANY examples on their website to prove their claims.

I LOVE that I can relate their style of astrology to my own personal experiences in the past ( i.e. BEFORE ever hearing of Magi astrology).

I LOVE that a professional astrologer with a wonderous "cinderella" grand trine, doesn't seem to grasp some of the most basic Magi teachings , that are readily available to said astrologer, for free, on the Magi website.

posted June 12, 2008 08:37 AM         

I'm not a research astrologer, won't ever claim to be. But I think that Happy Dragon's mention of "...almost like Dr. Goebbels might do astrology." really hit the nail on the head.

That being said, there are times when I feel like a Cinderella, every woman probably does. Because I'm a musician doesn't mean I've had this Cinderella success, don't be fooled by a Myspace page. It's supposed to look like you're a success. I'm related to some prominent musicians, but it's their success not mine.

I've had moments in some clubs in New York, but nothing near to what millions of musicians have had here...nothing near it. Nothing to warrant this Grand Trine.

Everyone has times of being blessed and a think a lot of it can be attributed to just having Jupiter trine Neptune, without Chiron involved. I also have Sun square Jupiter, I think that's more of a contributer to my blessings than the Jupiter-Neptune trine. But Magi thinks the square is a clash when I don't experience it as a clash.

But, it's not that I can't "get" what they are trying to teach. It's that I give every philosophy that I come across the good college try and after yesterday I realized that Pluto really does have more of a perspective/perception energy to it than Chiron.

Chiron was discovered in 1977. What did the Magi think for 300 plus years before Chiron? I'm serious, they put so much weight on it now.

And like I said before, I really want to be a Cinderella, I'm easily pulled in, but it just ain't true.

Geocosmic Valentine

posted June 12, 2008 09:03 AM         

As I've mentioned before, I've been through many cinderella transits & had no romantic relationship. The effects of the transits have all been related to wounding, healing & teaching.

quote:

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Astrologers often call Chiron, a planetoid orbiting the outer realms of our Solar System, the Wounded Healer. This celestial body takes its name from a Centaur from Greek mythology who, after being abandoned by his parents, matured into a wise and giving healer and teacher. Because Zeus, god of all of the gods, was his father, Chiron was immortal. When beset upon by great pain from a poison arrow, Chiron prayed to the gods to let him die. His wish was granted. In his life, he overcame personal issues and used the lessons learned to help and heal others. Coinciding with Chiron's discovery in 1977 was a surge of interest in New Age healing and holistic therapies; Chiron became a natural symbol for healing through pain that has been borne. A more recent example of a Chironic influence would be celebrities or athletes who use their personal tribulations to raise awareness -- like Christopher Reeve with his work toward a cure for paralysis or Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong's fundraising efforts for cancer research.

On a personal level, the greatest pain or burden one bears -- usually in childhood -- and eventually overcomes is the source of great wisdom and healing power for others. Where Chiron finds itself in your chart is an indication of lessons you must learn and the lessons you may one day be able to teach.

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posted June 13, 2008 02:05 AM         

I believe that the one that you love the most is the one that could end up hurting you the most.

I do believe that true love can heal.
If you lose that love,you can hurt like hell.

posted June 16, 2008 06:46 PM         

Isnt supposed that TrUE LOVE is the one that heals most?Surely it can hurt us sometimes but i dont beieve that if someone hurts you the most,can be your True Love...

posted June 17, 2008 09:10 AM         

It really depends on one's views,beliefs,and opinions,and perceptions just like many people have different religious/spiritual beliefs....so I avoid getting into debates about matters of the heart. From what I observe,there is a lot of different perceptions about soulmates,love,romance in this forum. That's ok.

Not everybody agrees with what love is and what it entails. Just like many people disagree what soulmates are.

My main point was that when a person is in love,they can be vulnerable to being hurt.

So if a person loves somebody so strongly,and he/she is hurt by the person, she/he can be badly hurt.....especially if they lose that loved one in some way.

People can hurt their loved ones consciously or unconsciously too. A person can say the wrong thing because he doesn't know how to articulate or communicate himself well. He/she could misread nonverbal signals and hurt his/her partner in that way. Wanting some space could hurt the partner. Misunderstandings,confusion can lead to hurt.

Mental Illness can be a factor. Economic disadvantages can be a factor.

Some people love a person so much that they might let that person go because he/she doesn't want to hold that person back in some way. It could be due to not feeling good enough like there could be some insecurity. It could be due to barriers like distance,employment issues,living arrangement issues,financial issues,obligations to family. That person being let go could be hurt.

Some people could have illnesses like terminal cancer and so they let go of their partners because they don't want to see them suffer.

Heck....even losing your partner to death can hurt very painful. whether its from homicide,suicide,natural causes,accident,illness

my grandfather hurt my stepgrandmother very badly with his suicide.

Heck..if you read about neurodivergents...Many neurodivergents are misunderstood in relationships and so their partners can be easily hurt by their perceptions of their partners not caring,not being responsible,deceptive(when it can be disorganization,miscommunication,confusion). Many neurodivergents are hypersensitive,highly emotional so they could easily overreact and be easily hurt by their partners or they could hurt their partners through their overreactions. Some neurodivergents aren't good at reading emotional/social cues and so they could hurt their partners because they are not reading them.....that could be mistaken for not caring,callousness,and selfishness.

Here is stuff on Dyspraxia. You can see how they could be difficult in relationships at times. I know from experience,being Dyspraxic myself. http://www.dyspraxiausa.org/adult_symptoms.html

Learning disabilities may present many challenges to the individual other than the obvious. They can have a great impact on relationships and personal interactions. The effects are experienced by persons with learning disabilities and their partners. The problems can manifest themselves in a variety of situations.

A person with learning disabilities may be frustrated about the way a partner provides assistance by feeling stifled when too much is routinely provided, which may give rise to the perception that he or she is stupid or being treated like a child. Also, he or she may feel unfairly blamed for relationship problems, such as not listening or not trying hard enough, which may be due to his/her learning disabilities.

The partner without learning disabilities may experience resentment at having to continually tend to the needs of the other, while many of his/her needs may seem to go unmet. http://www.ldonline.org/article/6007

Unconditional love doesn't necessarily mean not hurting the partners....like I said,it's to complexed.

Here is an example of how true love can have great challenges and involve hurt

Love in Black and White
The Triumph of Love Over Prejudice and Taboo

Mark and Gail Mathabane tell the inspiring true story of how they met, the obstacles they faced, and the turmoil they underwent from both internal and external pressures as they fell in love, married (despite dire warnings from well-meaning friends and relatives), and began a family. After a painful pre-marriage break up, the two vowed to write a book that would inspire other interracial couples to ignore social and parental pressures to have a "racially correct" relationship and to be proud of the racial harmony they represent. The book has become a modern-day classic among interracial couples and biracial adults. http://www.mathabane.com/Love%20Home.htm

Gail broke up with Mark and that really hurt him because she was conflicted about interracial relationship and how it might not work. She ended up following her heart. She's been married to him for over 20 years and they have children together.

Some people can hurt the partners because they go against what their heart tells them because they are overwhelmed by disapproval of people close to them.

I get this impression from people that love can't hurt at all,and so that means that it's not true love. It's just not that black and white. No pun intended.

all the aforementioned are reasons why I don't believe in Magi Astrology.