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Author Topic:   Derivative House System
vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 215
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 10, 2008 10:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
Apparently this is a great way to find info about close family members. Especially when evaluating lunations and eclipses.

Example: your first born child is your fifth house and this is his first.
your sixth then becomes how they make money his second.
your seventh is education his third Ect...

For your first marriage your seventh is mates first.
second marriage your eleventh and mates first.
Aunts your third and her first.

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jane
Knowflake

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posted August 10, 2008 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
My brain just exploded.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 215
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 11, 2008 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
The fifth house represents the first child.
The seventh, the first partner
The eleventh, the second partner
The ninth, grandchildren
The third, aunts and sisters

Example: the seventh house represents your husband and in your eighth house you have venus conjunct jupiter, Your eight represents his second, how He makes money. ( He will be very successfull).
It may even explain what he does for a living.

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Kismet*
Knowflake

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From: CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2008

posted August 11, 2008 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kismet*     Edit/Delete Message
What if my fifth house is empty or doesn't make any apects?

Does this mean I'm not gonna have kids?

Thanks!

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jane
Knowflake

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posted August 11, 2008 01:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message
I'll try that out. Thanks for explaining.

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Lara
Knowflake

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From: London
Registered: Mar 2006

posted August 11, 2008 05:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
lol
my brain popped too Jane

It's like one of those "Dick is mary's older brother and Simon's younger brother. Andy is mary's middle brother and Simon's twin. Which brother is Dick" lol

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Lara
Knowflake

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From: London
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posted August 11, 2008 05:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
actually i'm sorry to say that none of it works for me!

I have no leo child.
I have never dated a libra nor aquarius and the other things don't fit either.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

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From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 11, 2008 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
Not that you have a leo child

but describes him or her.
Maybe, the child likes to be noticed (shine) or maybe they are more like the other planet you may have siting in that house.

I was looking at the seventh house for my first husband and it didn't fit.
Then I remembered the eleventh house is usually the second time around but is also concidered the logical choice rather than love. And My first time was logic more than love, Funny thing is it fit him to be in my eleventh house.

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Kick It
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
Registered: May 2008

posted August 11, 2008 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kick It     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, I use this a bit. How di you get to 11th house being the second partner? Not that it is something I will need to worry about.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

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From: colorado
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posted August 11, 2008 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
I believe the reason astrologers choose the eleventh house for the second is because it is the house of friends, people we know, and they make more of a logical choice than just jumping in head first.

Though, some argue that it is the ninth house where we find the second husband.

I think personally that if we choose the logical choice for our first. Then Maybe if there is a second partner it may resemble the seventh house The love that we desire.
not just a friendship, but the real thing.

That is just my opinion and everyone is diffrent, and may need diffrent things in life.

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astroleolady
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Posts: 442
From: In the ęther
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posted August 11, 2008 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroleolady     Edit/Delete Message
In the books that I have read on the subject of derivative houses and horary charts, the ninth house (3rd from 7th) usually represents the second partnership.

I have never heard about the 11th house before.

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astroleolady
Knowflake

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From: In the ęther
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posted August 11, 2008 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroleolady     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
What if my fifth house is empty or doesn't make any apects?
Does this mean I'm not gonna have kids?

Thanks!


Kismet*,

Not necessarily, no. You very well could have children one day. Bear in mind: the 5th house, the Sun and Leo represent children.

Empty houses still hold a wealth of information. Look to the sign on the cusp of the 5th house, it's ruler and the aspects of the ruler. Look for the Sun's sign, house and aspects, natural ruler of the 5th house. Look to planets in Leo and their aspects.

The Moon represents the uterus and childbirth, so you can look to it as well for more information.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 215
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 11, 2008 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
Astroleolady-
This seems to be an issue of discussion among astrologers.

Which houses rule the second, third and maybe even fourth marriage.
The book I read describes it this way

The second marriage is the eleventh house (moralistic logic) She said when you marry someone it is a union forever, any marriage after that is really just a love affair, So she would count five houses from the seventh house.

She stated that other astrologers look to the ninth house because it is a legal affair.

However she states that you should always look to the seventh house as this will set the tone for any marriage and express basic needs for partnerships.

note: If a luminary sits in a late degree ( 27, 28, 29 ) anything can happen when it comes to marriage.

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Kick It
Knowflake

Posts: 1032
From: Leeds
Registered: May 2008

posted August 11, 2008 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kick It     Edit/Delete Message
It would be good to find the reason behind 9th being second partner, it doesnt sound that logical at all.
1st car, 2nd car, 3rd and all that should be 3rd from 3rd, 3rd from that, 3rd from that and so on. Which should make first partner the 7th, second partner the 1st, then 7th, 1st and all that counting ahead.

But enough. Yeah, I like it.

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astroleolady
Knowflake

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From: In the ęther
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posted August 11, 2008 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroleolady     Edit/Delete Message
I found a couple of articles on the subject of 2nd marriages listed below. I was under the impression that you count three from the 7th for the 2nd marriage and three from the 9th for the 3rd marriage and so forth because marriage is a contract, a legal one, where papers are signed. And, contracts are ruled by the 3rd house, Mercury and Gemini as are the 7th and Libra.

Of course, we still always look to the 7th for long-term partnerships, but additional marriages maybe further interpreted by using derivative houses, which help to clarify and focus in on the subsequent partnerships.

Aquarius Papers http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2008/04/marriage-compos.html

Zane B. Stein http://en.allexperts.com/q/Astrology-2205/MARRIAGES.htm


vesta-sister, if you don't mind me asking, what was the title of the book you were reading and who authored it? I'd like to check it out. Thanks for any help.

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Kick It
Knowflake

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From: Leeds
Registered: May 2008

posted August 11, 2008 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kick It     Edit/Delete Message
I can get that reasoning astroleoleady, but maybe if you use the 3rd house for marriage to start off with Obviously not you.

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vesta-sister
Knowflake

Posts: 215
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 12, 2008 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vesta-sister     Edit/Delete Message
Astroleolady - the book is

The Art of Predictive Astrology
Forecasting your life Events

Author -Carol Rushman

Like I said every body is diffrent, some of us need and want diffrent things.
maybe, that is why astrologers are unable to agree on wich house represents the second or third. Some of us may take a morer logical or moralistic approach next time and others may be looking for something else.

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astroleolady
Knowflake

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From: In the ęther
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posted August 12, 2008 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroleolady     Edit/Delete Message
I have that book, but it's in storage at the moment. I'll have to go look for it. Thanks for the info, vesta.

I agree with what you are saying with regards to differing opinions on the subject of which house to use. When a marriage takes place, the motivation, needs and wants behind that decision are different for every person. And, they may differ from marriage number one to marriage number two. Some want love, some want friendship, some want sex, some want status, some want power, some want financial gain, some want security, some want to be controlled etc. Most partnerships will be formed because of multiple reasons.

The astrologer's job would be to ascertain from their client the motivation behind the drive to form a new partnership, so that they may delineate the chart more thoroughly and aid the client in a productive manner, which would involve experimenting with differing methods of interpretation to determine what works best for us and the native.

Anyone know what the ancient and classical astrologers say on this subject? I'm guessing that they just exclusively use the 7th for all marriages. There wasn't much divorce in the past. Second marriages tended to take place because one of the partners passed away.

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