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Author
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Topic: A new way of looking at aspects
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Bucketrider
Knowflake Posts: 244
From: northeast
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 03:50 AM
 
After some reflection and much thought about how aspects feel in synastry, my natal chart and in transit, something occurred to me that I havent seen talked about. Aside from the hard/easy contrast between trines and oppositions, I think there should be another quality added - stability vs unstablitity or energizing. I think the grouping should go like this, including the "minor" aspects. Most stable aspects - conjunction, parallel, trine, sextile, novile, semi-sextile. These are easy and ready to work for you. They all flow, some more strongly than others. Unstable and triggering - the square is the most unstable, IMO, followed by the opposition which is a stronger aspect but has greater potential for balance and therefore stability, followed by the contraparallel and semisquare. Energizing, stimulating and unstable but positive aspects - quintile and septile. Both of these are growth oriented. Their oddness as multiples of 5 and 7 signifies that. The septile does not break down to a whole number. The septile is more internally stimulating and is spiritual in nature. The quintile is very externally stimulating and energetic and often goes with performance of some kind. Its main manifestation is outside the self. Hunter Thompson who wrote "fear and loathing in las vegas" as a take in part on his bizarre and eccentric life, had sun exactly quintile uranus. Interestingly, for someone who embodied uranian ideals, that was the only aspect to uranus in his chart.
This, to my mind, speaks to how major the quintile can be. The sun quintile uranus aspect defined his life. In synastry the quintile is stimulating and energetic. It doesnt just sit like the trine or sextile. That being the case, I wonder if the quintile can be triggering, given its energetic profile. We tend to see the hard aspects as triggering and the soft aspects as flowing but I think the quintile fits in both categories. In my own chart, saturn is quintile pluto and venus is quintile uranus. Transits to my saturn have long felt intensified and energized in a way that goes with plutonic intensification. People I know who have saturn square pluto or saturn conjunct or parallel pluto have a similar experience. Could it be the quintile is the true wildcard aspect, fitting with both hard and soft aspect categories? IP: Logged |
darkdreamer
Knowflake Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 04:30 AM
You have the most original individual self-thinking approach on astrology I have ever seen. I`m truely intrigued by your posts.  And in this case, I completely agree with you.
Actually I did my own list (for myself) only to grasp the difference between aspects in synastry and I came to the same results, even though I didn`t include the minor aspects. But it definitely makes sense, with the novile (which does resonate with the trine alot) and septile and quintile.
The quintile is a most interesting aspect and i I agree it is positive and stimulating. BTW how would you interpret an exact septile of a guy`s Venus to a girl`s Mars (they are also solstice conjunct / antiscia). IP: Logged |
EighthMoon
Knowflake Posts: 1400
From:
Registered: May 2007
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posted August 21, 2008 09:50 AM
Very interesting, BR.A few questions based on your experiences... If a natal chart has many of the unstable/challenging aspects, and the person is attracted to others with squares, oppositions, etc. to their natal, is it possible that those aspects that are traditionally unstable, become long term? Also, how important do you consider composite charts to be? Great post!
8th IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 09:59 AM
bucketrider, you rock!I agree... The quintile and quincunx are definitely up there with the hard aspects. I also agree with DD - you always have great threads and an approach to astrology that satisfies my 6th H Uranus!
Thank you IP: Logged |
vesta-sister
Knowflake Posts: 215
From: colorado
Registered: Sep 2007
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posted August 21, 2008 10:15 AM
EigthMoon, Lara, I am interested in the composite as well with the quintile and quincunx.
but, if it formed a YOD in the composite would it act diffrently?
BR, GREAT POST
I am so glad you hit on the topic of other aspects. IP: Logged |
darkdreamer
Knowflake Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 10:31 AM
Yes, me, too.I`m always uncertain how to interprete the minor aspects. IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
Knowflake Posts: 244
From: northeast
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 11:01 AM
Thank you, DD.  The novile is a great aspect - the most elegant and "beautiful" of the aspects. Not as strong as the trine but more graceful. The septile in synastry seems to have a psychic component to it so that two people are tuned into each other in a special way. Its not an aspect that would jump out at you - it would be felt over time. Mars septile venus would suggest a more spiritual attraction than any other mars/venus aspect.
8th - squares are not stable aspects. After their initial charge/trigger they peter out. Thats the work that is talked about with hard aspects. They are unsteady. The square is the most unsteady in my opinion. It challenges and confronts but leaves the work up to you. It is useful in that as a result of whatever the square is challenging, that area will develop if you do the work. If not, it wont. They always require something from you.
In terms of the synastry, if they are alot of squares, there will also be oppositions which will help stabilize and offer some natural stability but the whole thing will be dynamic and will require work.
The opposition is also confronting and challenging but its problem is usually a too much of something. It lacks balance. It is dif than the square and their difference should be discussed more often. If they were the same - the universe would not have made two dif aspects.
It offers more "flow" and can be stable with adjustments and work. The square does not seem to offer much flow - it is about the challenge and leaves the rest to you. The opposition prob has as much in common with the conjunction as the square but they are all pretty different. I dont really look at composite charts anymore. I think the major asteroids tell you more about relational synastry. I am not sure how much validity the composite chart has. I looked at them for a long time. The one that seemed to have some validity was the davison chart but even that was inconsistent. Look to see if vesta, ceres, juno and pallas are in aspect to inner planets (not other asteroids or outer planets). IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
Knowflake Posts: 244
From: northeast
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 11:40 AM
Thanks, Lara! How goes it?Actually, after alot of thought, I do not think the quincunx is an aspect. I say this based on alot of research. Looking at all kinds of famous peoples charts, it is never featured strongly. The conjunction, opposition, trine, sextile, and square are! Why is that? For instance, chiron is often in aspect to an inner planet in successful people's charts. That aspect is usually a major one - usually a sextile, conjunction or a trine, less often - a square or opposition. In terms of odds, the quincunx should come up , but it does not. Why? Could it be bec its not an aspect? Ptolemy didnt consider it an aspect. There is probably a good reason for that.  IP: Logged |
Scorpionic Web
Knowflake Posts: 812
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted August 21, 2008 11:46 AM
You acknowledge the Semisextile, but not it's angular compliment- the Quincunx? IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
Knowflake Posts: 244
From: northeast
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 12:08 PM
I dont see the quincunx as the angular compliment of the semi-sextile. That is only the case if you see aspects as born out of sign relationships. I do not. They resonate as numbers with particular energies. The quincunx is not a primary division of the circle as all the other aspects are. The quintile, septile, semisquare and novile are clear aspects but do not emerge from sign relationships. Thats bec the energy of an aspect does not emerge from its sign relationships. Its the other way around. The signs emerged as a way of explaining peoples experiences with different aspects. The signs were convenient, not scientific. They are general statements which are often contradictory. I think all schools of astrology would agree that the aspects are much more consistent and represent something primary and foundational.If anything, the quincunx signifies an oppty where 2 planets which are quincunx each other are linked and can work together, possibly transformatively, when a third planet forms aspects to both planets. That third planet will most notably form a trine or sextile to one planet and a square to the other which is a good combo bec the square stimulates the trine and the trine provides stability and ease for some work. So as an aspect in a natal chart, it points to a place where 2 planets will potentially work together when transited by a third. Only when transited or aspected by a third. IP: Logged |
Scorpionic Web
Knowflake Posts: 812
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted August 21, 2008 12:43 PM
Born out of sign relationships? I'm not sure why you think sign relationships would have anything to do with this. I'm speaking simply in a numerical sense. A quincunx is the semisextile of an opposition. And I feel I've seen enough evidence to corroborate the existence of the quincunx. So I disagree with you, but I respect that you see the need for aspects to be even divisors of 360.IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 01:05 PM
the quincunx stays!
Magi use it too IP: Logged |
darkdreamer
Knowflake Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 01:39 PM
Bucketrider,thank you for your explanation on the aspects. That gives me much stuff to chew. How important are the minor aspects, how strongly felt compared to the major aspects, would you say? Also, what orbs do you use with them?
And do you also use the biseptile or biquintile or binovile? IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
Knowflake Posts: 244
From: northeast
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 03:27 PM
Go with what works for you.Being semi-sextile of an opposition has no real inherent meaning. Lara - magi brought some major ideas to the table but miss some major points like considering outer planet aspects significant in synastry. So I have a chiron parallel pluto (one of the great long term relationship aspects) with millions of people. In point of fact, it as an aspect I have had with many people and amounted to nothing. Same for chiron conjunct jupiter, another cinderella aspect, which amounts to nothing unless there is an inner planet in aspect to those outer planets. They dont say that. Anyway, I am just reporting what I have found with research over time - looking at several hundred charts: the quincunx does not come up. It should just given basic odds, it can occur twice in a circle just like the sextile, square, trine, quintile, etc. IP: Logged |
darkdreamer
Knowflake Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 03:32 PM
Bucketrider,did you see some of the minor aspects come up? Like the quintile, septile, novile, semisquare`? IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
Knowflake Posts: 244
From: northeast
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 03:50 PM
DD - I think they are important. If they aspect the sun they tend to be more obvious. The septile is hard to see bec it is not a whole number and its effects are mostly internal but I know people who are highly intuitive and kind of psychic who have sun septile neptune. I think the best way to get a feel for minor aspects is to look for them aspecting the sun.I dont use the bi or tri versions of any aspect. Its a fiction and logically does not make sense. It never comes up in charts I have looked at where the basic quintile or septile does and seems meaningful. The fact that the numerator is different changes the aspect. They are only significant if part of a larger pattern like a grand quintile. Major aspects are all primary divisions of the circle. The quincunx, bi and tri series aspects are not. There are so many misunderstandings like that in astrology. Astrologers dont get how something, be it an aspect, an outer planet, an asteroid, a sensitive point can have a limited application - only work with certain rules. For instance, the ASC and related points are receptive and yin like. Not like planets which have a yang energy (with the exception of the moon). Instead they use the same rules for everything and end up overinterpreting and trying to make everything significant when its not. IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 06:16 PM
It goes well thanks Bucketrider Here is a link - maybe it will be of some interest for you? http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2005/09/astrological_as.html So the septile is a 51 degree aspect? hmmm... off to look now IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted August 21, 2008 06:40 PM
I have chiron septile mars exact, natally.IP: Logged |
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