posted August 22, 2008 12:53 PM         

Other people might use their free will to dump on you from a large height. It happens all the time.

Are you to blame?

You might have made a bad judgement call ~ and used your free will in such a way as to bring it upon your own head.

Or you might have done nothing at all to warrant it, and any attempt to make it seem so are just wrapped up blame the victim arguments designed to eliminate the possibility that world contains random bad luck.

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God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that can be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish one from the other

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posted August 22, 2008 01:06 PM         

Some people have harder lives than others, it is naive to think otherwise. Some charts are more stressful than others, we can see that also.

But just as some people get bitter and miserable, others make the most of a bad lot. Some people get bitter and miserable when they are fortunately off, but that's another story.

Personally I think a chart works best as guidance. Nothing there is written in stone.

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Why when saturn squared my jupiter and uranus did i lose my job and how was that in my hands and how did my chart predict external influences? Are u telling me these arnt already bound to happen are you telling me i couldve avoided all of this?

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No-one can say without knowing the circustances. People get laid off all the time for things that have nothing to do with them or anything they did at all. Someone somewhere sells off an investment, for example. All the work force are surplus.

If you rode in late everyday still drunk from the day before that might have been your fault, though.

Analysing it might not help much. What you do about it might do, but even then you might be limited. But that doesn't mean you are necessarily going to be without options. Sometimes your best option might be making the best of a bad lot.

posted August 22, 2008 08:23 PM         

If you have a badly aspected 3rd house, it can mean something with a sibling, something with a neighbour or something with your car. Much more than this also.
If you see a bad third house aspect coming along and you are having trouble with a sibling, it will likely indicate that is the problem. If your car is semi-knackered, it can mean it just messes up.
Astrology doesnt show what WILL happen, but what is likely to happen.
It the choices you make which determine what actually does happen.

Want some proof? I am a triplet, three of us born at the same time. We are similar in some respects but totally different. We do get similar times when one of us gets a haircut the same time as the others and lead somewhat similar lives. In reality, we are all different, yet born at the same time, living in the same environment.

If everything was predestined and inveitable, we would be exactly the same. This is not the case.

posted August 22, 2008 08:36 PM         

I know what you mean, though Belgz.

We all know that there are certain transits that "can" cause some major things to happen in our lives. And although we can say we have free will, we DON'T have free will over ALL external circumstances. Of course there's a chain of events and all things are connected...and the way we react is our choice. BUT, that still implies a limited amount of free will.

There's one person that I met a few times in my life who is the most spiritually advanced human I've encountered. He said that astrology works and is real...and we should be able to "transcend" the hold that the planets/stars have on us. Maybe that's what faith is all about. I dunno. I'm rambling...but I've been pondering this a lot lately too.

8th

posted August 22, 2008 10:35 PM         

My whole life ive been mentally and pyhsically very strong im not someone whos head can get messed with nor does anything ever effect me. 3 Yrs ago pluto went over my IC and i started suffering panic attacks for no reason i even felt like when i opened my eeys the world seemed darker around me and i was scared to live to move to die to think to dream..

During this time my progressed ascendant was changing to scorpio and pluto and saturn also crossed my progressed ascendant at the same time.

I was in this black hole where i thought i was going crazy and couldnt get out of it it was so bad i cant describe what i went through.

All this came to an end when i realised that pluto had moved away from my IC but the day 3 weeks ago when pluto went retrograde and came back to 28 degrees sag i woke up in the middle of the night having yet another anxiety attack over NOTHING!
3 weeks now ive been thinking to myself WTF!! The last year or so since i came back from overseas i was fine...

I get back on the internet im looking at my chart and i noticed its back i think to mself stay calm but my body went numb and i freaked out again and the next morning i woke up to find out my neighbour im very close with died and the next day i found out my other neighbour also passed away same day. 2 days after that my friend had a still born baby and then my other friends dad died. All of a sudden those thoughts of freaking out over dying got even worse and i thought pluto came back for 1 last good fix and i feel lout of control its like i cant stop feeling this way its like something is making me like this and i feel its presence (though i probably sound crazy and silly) but i can tell you that when uranus trined my sun i felt uranus as well im sure everyone else does too its like you cant help but feel depressed if saturn goes over your moon as well.

Pluto is going to go retro again in october i think prior to this i thought it might be coincidental that pluto was crossing over during that time but when it gos retrograde and does this dont you think thats weird its not longer a coincidence and seems pre destined to ruin my life and even shows the death of both my neighbbours on both sides of our home.

Also pluto was conjunct my neptune too and both had a drinking problem and 1 died from a heart attack. Pluto is also trine my venus in leo which rules the heart also.

My minds doing overtime now lol and i think how can i even stop myself from feeling like the way i am but i feel pluto is responsible and theres no free will if i cant feel relaxed and normal whilst this transit is going on.

I witnessed for the first time seeing a dead body as well and i dont think i will get that image out of my head ever. It was the scaiest and most disgusting thing i had ever seen and i went running out the hospital crying like an idiot. I avoided the funerals too.

Now if i have free will i want these panic attacks to go away and i want to be back to normal when i open my eyes i want that dark feeling to go away and i want my body to feel normal and i want to be feeling sane again...

posted August 22, 2008 11:26 PM         

All I can say in this regard about everything being predestined is that all the events (no matter how bad they seem) happen to make you the person who you are/will be. Say you have kids and they go through the same events as you. They would go through them events quite well due to your experience of them.

Your natal has Virgo rising, which means Scorpio on the 3rd (despite what that house system says) which can indicate obsessive thinking. With Pluto the natural ruler of the 8th and also death, put two and two together and this will occupy your mind.

3rd ruler Pluto is pretty well aspected, but there is a (wide) square to both Sun and Mercury. Sun rules the 12th of dreams, while Mercury rules both the 1st house of self and also the 10th of Mother.

1st and 3rd in bad aspect is not good, especially when Scorpio is on the third. Obsessive thinking is the likely result of that. Something which you are showing.

I understand you have a problem with everything being predestined and a possible feeling about lack of control...something which a detailed astrological reply will not help But you do have options.

Counselling can help with the panic attacks, by teaching self control. If you start to have a panic attack and you get even more panicky (that a word?) it will not help.

posted August 22, 2008 11:54 PM         

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dont u feel like were destined to live our natal chart i thought we had free will but seriously its no coincidence and its very accurate and we can predict anything down to even family problems and personality clashes to accidents

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Belgs - just a question.. Based on what you said - Do you think that if two different people were born at the same hospital, at the exact same time - they would live the exact same life?

posted August 23, 2008 01:57 AM         

I think many people just coast along and does what comes easiest and most natural to them. To these people, their chart probably is their destiny, because they go as the wind blows them.

But for others that become aware, they can take steps to change or prevent that which they don't like.

It's like how in my family tend to have fast metabolisms with a lot of energy. I had that, too, and was unable to go into puberty because my body didn't have enough fat. But Granny told the doctor that such "delayed puberty" was common in the family, and the doctor said that as long as I gained weight, I could go through it normally like everyone else. Of course Granny fed me fattening foods, but she wasn't about to keep me inactive as the doctor wanted her to, so I kept burning off the calories, stayed thin, and my puberty continued to be delayed.

Eventually, I wound up with some deadheads and did a lot of pot. Because of this, I stayed inside a lot, and the pot made music, and even TV, so beautiful and fascinating to me. Combined with the munchies that we indulged in (including like splitting an entire pizza with 1 or 2 people and then getting ice cream because I was STILL hungry), I gained weight. I think the drugs were still messing up my body a little, but once I stopped smoking pot so much (I spent about 3 months almost constantly stoned while with them), and continued to eat good, I finally went through full puberty. Why? Because I had countered the physical inclination.

That is, my genetic makeup was such that it was difficult for me to go through full puberty because I was too active and my metabolism was too fast. But once I finally took the doctor's orders (even if I did so more unintentionally and in a very irresponsible manner), I overcame that. Had I done so sooner, I'd have entered puberty that much sooner.

posted August 23, 2008 02:57 AM         

I think positive all the time i dont get depressed i never cry im generally happy and even during my panic attacks i laugh it off.

I know sometimes people think differently when you write something like this but it was just a thought i read alot of books and even in the muslim religion it says our destiny is written the time of our birth and were just living our fate. And then i look at how accurate astrology is and its too spot on i can even sometimes look at someones chart and assume what someone would even look like based on asc sun and moon.