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Author Topic:   Squares in synastry...totally impossible to make work?
ScorpioCentaur
Knowflake

Posts: 72
From: Montreal
Registered: Jan 2007

posted August 25, 2008 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScorpioCentaur     Edit/Delete Message
I'm far from an expert, but the man I've been dating recently and I have so many squared aspects I'm tired of counting them!
I can definitly feel the tension of the energies but we're so attracted to eachother and want to spend as much time as possible together.
But, at the same time, I'm a firm believer in synastry and what works and what doesnt so I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop and for us to decide we actually hate eachother and for me to get hurt in the end.
Is this just my scorpio paranoia?
Our Synastry chart:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=fqifilekPVIrI-u1185826658&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=432312&nho2=4319737&btyp=61&mth=gw&sday=31&smon=8&syr=2008&hsy=-1&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=


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augentier
Knowflake

Posts: 893
From: KS
Registered: Nov 2007

posted August 25, 2008 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for augentier     Edit/Delete Message
Oh crap..you guys have Mercury sq. Sun. not good. i've dealt with this and it hurts, there is a huge misunderstanding in communication. really try to stay open when speaking with each other..don't assume things! sun sq. jupiter and mercury sq. venus also suck, to be honest. you'll get annoyed and possibly sick of each other.

seems like a potentially intense pairing. keep in mind i am speaking from my personal experiences w/ many of the same aspects you and this guy have. biggest and best addvice i can give you is to accept differences and do not play manipulation games (pluto-venus conjunction..god help you!) ..seriously.

then again you can overcome anything w/ anyone if you both really care. good luck

------------------
Capricorn sun / Scorpio rising / Sagittarius moon

Mercury:: Sagittarius
Venus::Scorpio
Mars::Pisces

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007

posted August 25, 2008 03:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Can u posta composite chart with transits when u started the relationship?

Sometimes theres hope there lol

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007

posted August 25, 2008 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
ok i just looked and id be paranoid too lol

On ur composite chart u have uranus square venus at the moment with neptune conjunct the composite moon and ... semisquare the composite sun.

It doesnt look to great with saturn in virgo on composite chart where the sun mercury and venus is.

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ScorpioCentaur
Knowflake

Posts: 72
From: Montreal
Registered: Jan 2007

posted August 25, 2008 05:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScorpioCentaur     Edit/Delete Message
I don't know how to do that with the composite chart but we started seeing eachother as of August 4th 2008....

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darkdreamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006

posted August 25, 2008 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for darkdreamer     Edit/Delete Message
This definitely would be a challenging relationship. But as a SCorpio, would you really be satisfied with an easy going superfical relationship?


He`s very much Leo, you`re very much Scorpio. Two fix signs with stubborn heads, willstrong and not easy to influence. But it`s interesting, that fixed signs often end up with each other (my Mum and Dad are a Scorpio-Aquarius-mix and still together ). I think it might have to do with the fact that both signs really admire and respect strong people (like other fixed signs). Also, a mix of water and fire will make for some stormy arguments, sure, but the good thing is both elements are rather emotional, so there is a common ground, even though Scorpio is introverted passion and Leo extraverted passion.


Looking athe natal charts there are some areas where you are very similiar actually.
Both of you have Sun conjunct Venus. He has Sun conjunct Mars which is drawn to your Sun-Venus-conjunction (even though in different signs).

Emotionally it could get a bit hairy, as he is much more lofty and airy and mental in that regard than you.

But the Venus positions are really promising. You have both Venus in 9th house conjunct Sun, which is very compatible.
Also you have Venus in Scorpio, and his Venus, even though in Leo, is squaring Pluto, giving him a plutonic side, too.

Your Mars positions are in compatible elements.

His ASC is SCorpio and conjunct pluto, so all your SCorpio planets might be heavily drawn to the way he projects himself into the world (Plutonic), but don`t underestimate the Leo inside him!

His ASC is in the same sign as your MC, which happens very often in meaningful relationships.

Both of your have ruler of ASC conjunct Sun - again a sign of compatibility (even though of course the Leo-Scorpio-tension remains).

both of you have ruler of the 5th house in 2nd house; his 5th ruler is in Capricorn, yours is conjunct Saturn (and conjunct Pluto). So erotically you may be in tune, at least you`re seeking similiar things.


Looking at some of your aspects (you have noticed all these squares already, so let me point to some other aspects):

your intercepted DSC ruler (Sun) squares his 8th ruler and conjuncts his Pluto. That is like having Venus in contact with Pluto, and could explain some very compelling attraction between you. It`s an aspect that can make a connection indescribably deep and passionate (to the point that some people may get scared; in your case it`s him who probably would be scared the most, with his airy Aquarius-Moon, while your Scorpio-planets are quite familiar with that depth. Of course his SCorpio ASC is also familiar with intensity).

The your 7th house ruler is conjunct his ASC-ruler. That is one of the "jackpot"-aspects, concerning true personal compatibility and attraction.
He embodies (his ASC-ruler) everything you are attracted to (your 7th house ruler). It`s a bit like having your Venus conjunct his Mars.


What strikes me odd is the fact that his Venus and DSC-ruler seem to make no aspects to your personal planets (or did I miss something here?).

Interesting enough his 5th house ruler sextiles your 7th house ruler and conjuncts your SN. So he might feel erotically drawn to you; maybe you had a romantic relationship in a previous life? (his 5th house ruler conjunct your SN).


I haven`t looked any further, just did this superficial glance. But it seems that there are some connecting areas, even though we can`t talk the challenges away.

But if you`re personally compatible,t hen you`ll be able to handle a bunch of squares in synastry.
Actually they will then only show the intensity of the connection, in your case VERY intense.
But a Leo and a Scorpio should be able to handle quite some intensity (ask Bill and Hilary Clinton, they seem to have found a mode of living,t oo).

DD

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Lara
Knowflake

Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006

posted August 25, 2008 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
Scorpio,

If it makes you feel any better l have a similar situation !
Been seeing this guy since 9th august... im a taurus sun/mars (fixed), and he's a leo sun/venus (fixed) Aquarius moon/mars (fixed) LOL

I feel so disorientated from him mesmorizing me that l don't know what to think and l can't believe i am yet again attracted to a LEO!!!!!!!


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darkdreamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006

posted August 25, 2008 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for darkdreamer     Edit/Delete Message
BTW Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher are another of these "square couples".

She has a fullmoon from Scorpio to Taurus, Mars in Leo and Sun and Venus in SCorpio (and Mercury I think). He has Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus in Aquarius.
And most of their personal planets (especially Sun, Moon, Venus) are square, and still it seems to work somehow.

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Lara
Knowflake

Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006

posted August 25, 2008 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
OMG that's so SQUARISH

wow... shall we do their synastry? They seem pretty tight!

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darkdreamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006

posted August 25, 2008 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for darkdreamer     Edit/Delete Message
I gotta go to parents-teacher night in a couple of minutes, but hope to be back soon.

And yes, I would like to see the synastry here then.
And don`t forget the Draconics.

No pressure, though, Lara.

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Lara
Knowflake

Posts: 3274
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006

posted August 25, 2008 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
LOL

ok i'm onto it

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23
Knowflake

Posts: 4497
From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
Registered: Aug 2006

posted August 26, 2008 03:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message
Aha! THe old pluto on the sun/stellium trick!

My mum is a sco sun/merc squ leo moon/pluto and she has her moon/pluto right on my dad's leo stellium (includes sun) and her sun/merc squ his stellium. To make things worse, her tau uranus is hovering around too.

They've been together for a long time but I think my mum suffocates my dad; she nags and he withdraws.

A relationship is doable but they do tend to smash their heads against the concrete a lot.

But at least its nice to see some harmony between your marses. Mars-ura aspect is interesting - must be chaotic!

And a word of advice, don't link a chart directly from your account because anyone can come in and then look at all the other charts in your account of other people....

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cristiname
Knowflake

Posts: 506
From: Earth. Welcome!
Registered: Jul 2003

posted August 26, 2008 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cristiname     Edit/Delete Message
ScorpioCentaur

you say you're "not an expert", and that you're "a firm believer".

so you don't really know that squares kiil relationships, yet you somehow believe it. sounds to me like a self-fulfilled prophecy for FAILURE.

I get it when ppl believe in God just on faith alone - but synastry cook-books are NOT GOD. so why believe?

P.S. and here you are, asking for confirmation from other 'not experts, yet believers'.

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winky_winky
Knowflake

Posts: 574
From: SPAIN
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 26, 2008 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for winky_winky     Edit/Delete Message
I think the main problem here will be the stellium you put into his 12th house, this is difficult because the 12th house issues are always somehow blurred and he might feel this...

However, mutual 7th house aspects such as a lot of his planets in your 7th house and his moon on ur 1st house! YOU LIKE HIM A LOT! He is your ideal if we believe all the 7th house transposition stuff...

Best of Luck, Marie

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Geocosmic Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 994
From: New York, NY
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 26, 2008 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
In simple terms, this chart suggests that there is love, sexual chemistry, power struggle and control issues.

But the Universe has brought you together and you may not know the reason yet. When you see a lot of squares in a synastry chart, it's not always about heartbreak and pain. Squares equal hard working energy and can suggest that there is a project that needs to be worked on or completed between the two of you and romance may have nothing to do with it.

I like to think of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Their synastry as friends was very rocky but they used it to debate and have one of the most voluminous correspondences in political and U.S. history and they considered each other to be BEST FRIENDS!!

One thing I've learned in my practice is that people who have stressful synastry comparisons tend to get lots of work done as a team. Yes, they argue, but not everyone is esoteric and peaceful, many people enjoy the argument process and I'm not kidding and I'm not saying that it's part of an S&M relationship either. It's about personal choice in how you like to relate. For all I know you could both be in a motorcycle gang and part of that culture and you like to arm wrestle for pleasure or you own a pinata factory at some point. This comparison is perfect for that. Maybe you are both high tech gardeners who move lots of earth in landscaping.

This is the synastry of a couple who together can be a machine if they recognize that. What are your goals together and separately? Think that through.

Even Linda Goodman says of the Sun-Pluto conjunction that you have that with this measurement you can build empires together or you can destroy them. I shared this measurement with a former employer who started a foundation to benefit young children with life threatening diseases. Together I helped him to sustain that empire. It didn't end well, but then again I wasn't in love with him but it ended with us both having tremendous respect for each other and in the end it wasn't about us, it was about the continued sustainance of that foundation that benefits these children.

That's the kind of synastry chart you have here and you can take advantage of the love and sexual chemistry as well. And remember, there comes a time when you put this chart down and just live the relationship the way it unfolds. I'm not advocating it or telling you to throw it away, at some point you put the chart down and check with your own hearts and your head.

Geocosmic Valentine
Professional Astrologer
geocosmicvalentine@yahoo.com
. www.myspace.com/geocosmicvalentine

------------------
"Everybody is a star!"
Sly & The Family Stone

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ScorpioCentaur
Knowflake

Posts: 72
From: Montreal
Registered: Jan 2007

posted August 26, 2008 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScorpioCentaur     Edit/Delete Message
Cristiname,

You are so right! My paranoia and worries about all the squares can produce a self fulfilling prophecy for failure.
Yet another thing for me to worry about...Whether it will be all the squared energies or me thinking about the squared energies that will make this relationship fail! Wonderful!
I guess it really just comes down to the fact that somehow I feel an amazing connection with this man and it scares me how open I have let myself be to him and therefore vulnerable...
With all my scorpio, it's very hard to let my guard down and trust..especially a pure leo, when its been burned into my brain that its just not supposed to work.
I'm just trying to avoid any possible hurt in the future if I can...I'm trying to find the easy answer and solution, but I guess matters of the heart dont work that way..

Thank you geocosmic for such a wonderful response..its so true that there's love, sexual chemistry and power struggles and control issues. He makes my blood boil in every way, positive and negative.
I feel like all the good and bad qualities in me are magnified 10000% around him. But I do feel like theres some sort of purpose to the two of us being together. What this is as of yet still remains to be seen.

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Geocosmic Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 994
From: New York, NY
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 26, 2008 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
And your response just made me think of a forest fire as a perfect example. No one really wants a forest fire, but they are a necessary part of nature. Without them certain seeds will never be released from pine cones that will only release during a fire.

When you said that he makes your blood boil in positive and negative ways, think of how certain vegetables need to be boiled for a certain amount of time in order to bring out the true flavor or get colors to be released from certain plants in order to die fabrics rich and brilliant colors.

How many of us have complained about our toughest teachers during our elementary school careers only to realize in our adult years that they were the best thing that ever happened to us. If we dropped out of a class everytime we had a tough teacher, we would never get to experience how well we can rely on ourselves, how happy we are because we have built amazing skills while being dragged through the fire of our teachers anger or controlling rules, etc.

I could go on and on again, so I'll stop because I already know that you get the idea. Pay attention to what boils up and out of you, both positive and negative. He is meant to be a catalyst. Higher Power is in charge.

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bvanzy
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Posts: 379
From:
Registered: Jul 2007

posted August 27, 2008 04:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bvanzy     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
she has her moon/pluto right on my dad's leo stellium (includes sun) and her sun/merc squ his stellium. To make things worse, her tau uranus is hovering around too.
They've been together for a long time but I think my mum suffocates my dad; she nags and he withdraws.

May I ask 23, whether in your opinion it is your mum's Moon/Pluto on your dad's Sun stellium that is causing the problems of suffocation or the square from her Sun/Mercury?

The reason I ask is that I am wondering if stellium conjunctions are felt as suffocating, because of the similarity or of the proximity or intensity. I don't know.
Obviously it would depend on the planets, a nice Sun/Venus on someone's Moon/Mars (without squares from Saturn) would be felt as pretty amazing I'd have thought – however what would be the other qualities of such stellium conjunctions in synastry. Are they also suffocating?

By the way Geocosmic Valentine, that was a very interesting analysis you gave above. Do you think Sun/Pluto conjunctions in synastry can draw people together to 'build' or 'create' a family too?

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Geocosmic Valentine
Knowflake

Posts: 994
From: New York, NY
Registered: Sep 2007

posted August 27, 2008 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Bvanzy,

About the Sun-Pluto aspect, it's not specific to anything. You should look at the house where the aspect resides; look at the houses that are ruled by the Sun and Pluto.

But remember, planets don't "do" anything, people take the actions.

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23
Knowflake

Posts: 4497
From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
Registered: Aug 2006

posted August 27, 2008 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
May I ask 23, whether in your opinion it is your mum's Moon/Pluto on your dad's Sun stellium that is causing the problems of suffocation or the square from her Sun/Mercury?

The reason I ask is that I am wondering if stellium conjunctions are felt as suffocating, because of the similarity or of the proximity or intensity. I don't know...


I think how a conj is felt would vary person to person. For example a person with a lot of conj in their charts might easily take on conjs from another person in synastry. Likewise, with me, my chart is filled with opps and my partner opposes some of my planets with his planets and I don't find it so bad.

In relation to my parents, the stress I think personally comes from both the aspect and my mum herself. Both are very fixed and stubborn and obviously don't like change and therefore the squ (and conj) aspects from my my mum makes it hard (but still doable). My mum is a very difficult person and I can only think it is caused by the configuration in her chart. She is very controlling, suspicious, intense and tense.

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ScorpioCentaur
Knowflake

Posts: 72
From: Montreal
Registered: Jan 2007

posted August 30, 2008 03:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScorpioCentaur     Edit/Delete Message
Just a little update...
We fight like mad...its totally brutal.
My jealousy is out of control and I think he plays on that because he knows he can...
Where did I sign up for this?

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darkdreamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3991
From: Germany
Registered: Aug 2006

posted August 30, 2008 04:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for darkdreamer     Edit/Delete Message
I`m sorry to hear that.

Can`t you use the energy of those squares in a more "constructive" way?
i mean jealousy and fight are so painful. And if you`re both equally attracted to each other, there must be another way to cope with these challenges.
Or is that the problem? Does one love more than the other?

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blue moon
Moderator

Posts: 4700
From: U.K
Registered: Dec 2007

posted August 31, 2008 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
There are a fair few squares on my chart with Mr blue moon. Sun Square Pluto, that's a good one.

Not a square but Mars Opposite Mars can get tedious. My parents had this too (have this, they are still married after over 40 years) - on my MC/IC axis. So I feel like a rat on a wheel sometimes, couldn't I have gone for something a bit less argumentative?

Overall the chart builds into a Grand Cross. We have had 2 children together and have been together for over 15 years. We get along fine for the most part. Mercury Trine Mercury and Sun Trine Sun help a lot overall.

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