Posts: 2160
From: Born in S.Africa
Registered: Jun 2007

posted September 07, 2008 09:06 PM         

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... because they will never forget what happened. You might as well just throw in the towel because you are dead to them. Forgiveness is an unknown concept to them, only seen on idiots or in movies. They actually don't hold grudges for long weirdly, but once they begin to soften, they relive what happened as if it just happened yesterday, to rekindle the fury,hate, hurt and disappointment- even if the incident was 7 years ago.

You will never see the depths of their anger. They are civil to you, and maybe hope to bury the hatchet but they can't. They will be there for you after the incident, but at regular intervals they remind themselves of what happened and they hate you again.

This could mean passive aggression or manipulation or flat out dedication gone evil or... Fear? Who knows, you tell me.

what sign, planet, house or aspect is this creature, or what's combination of these elements could be at work?

It's a riddle, kinda. The winner is the one that makes most sense and substantiates their responses. You can enter as much as you want but the more entries, the greater your chances of winning. So... On your marks, get set, go?

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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted September 07, 2008 09:07 PM         

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Oh Aqu definitely.

I hold grudges, I can still think of people from my childhood/teenage years that I coldly hate and I still dream about putting them in their spot. I hardly ever forgive. Mind you I have aqu sun (10th) squ ura (7th) and opp saturn (4th). So the hatred is permanent (saturn and 10th - for a permanent direction into the future), is from the past and relationships (4th and rx saturn/7th) and cold but ocassionally pops up unpredictably (ura, 7th). Also I have pluto conj DC which I haven't yet used for an evil purpose yet but maybe I should.

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posted September 07, 2008 09:18 PM         

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I was thinking aqua too.

Unlike scorpio and taurus, they don't hold grudges. but they do relive the thing over and over again. They try to forgive and make an attempt, but can't completely do it. They never forget anything.

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posted September 07, 2008 09:22 PM         

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Yeah reliving is something I go through too much myself and yes I don't forget when it comes to things that people do to me either.

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From: The Asylum
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posted September 07, 2008 09:25 PM         

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This is probably a fixed sign most definitely.

***I would say cancer too since we hold grudges but I don't consider not even acknowledging the person as being "civil" to them.

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 07, 2008 09:28 PM         

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Yes. The obvious one would be Scorpio. What of houses and aspects?

I was thinking a hard aspect between Mars (aggression action, bouts of anger)and Saturn (limiting, restricting and suppressing Mars) = passive aggression and the Mars being in 12th house to make this rage deep seeded?

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posted September 07, 2008 09:30 PM         

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I don't have any planets in Aqua (only a 'roid or two ). There are several people in my past whom I will probably never forgive. Of course, I don’t see these people, so I only have to relive the hurt occasionally when something or someone reminds me of it. I can be very cold once wronged: that person will be dead to me forever

By “wronged” I don’t mean the cashier that gave me the wrong change at the store – I mean some of the awful things my ex-partner did to me. I used to live in terrible fear of him, but it has subsided over the years to merely cold hatred, to which I give very little energy – as hating hurts the hater most – but nevertheless it’s still there inside me…..

I don’t think Moon in the 8th (opp Mars) is a very “happy” place….. and Pluto conj Asc: it is what it is.

As for grudges -- yeah I sometimes indulge in them That may not be very evolved behavior, but we all have our flaws Holding a grudge for long takes too much energy tho -- most of the time I have better things to occupy my mind and attention.....

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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted September 07, 2008 09:39 PM         

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Well Sco is another one. My mum is not prone to forgiveness either, she is sco sun/merc squ moon/pluto in leo.

As for mars-saturn aspects, I have mars (3rd) semi-square saturn (4th). My mum has the same aspect. I don't know what time she is born, I think she is aries rising, which would place her saturn in the 12th, mars in 11th.

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From: Leeds
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posted September 07, 2008 09:41 PM         

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What brought all this about?

Are you trying to work out the placements of someone?

Seems a little bit odd to me. Not much is odd to me.

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 07, 2008 09:42 PM         

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Hey hey 'Z

Actually the Moon could be a big key player in this puzzle because an emotional person goes that far either due to fear of hurting again, but as far as abuse even Jesus would hold a grudge. What was he doing in the desert for so long? Kidding but you get my point.

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posted September 07, 2008 09:44 PM         

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Kick It. I am very odd. Trust me. And if I told you of the machinations of my warped mind, I'd have to kidnap you and torture you, not kill you though. just pluck a few finger nails. That's all.

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posted September 07, 2008 09:49 PM         

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Yeah I think unmoved has ura in the 1st for what I know. Kick it, you should feel at home then

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 07, 2008 09:52 PM         

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23. Good memory.

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From: Leeds
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posted September 07, 2008 09:52 PM         

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Odd. I just seen The Dark Knight and you are being odd.

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posted September 07, 2008 09:53 PM         

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See, Aqu never forgets Unmoved also has jupiter in the 1st too off memory. She likes to philosophically explore in a penetrative/research manner (in sco).

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 07, 2008 09:58 PM         

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Oi. Get out of my mind 23 or else you're taking Kick It's place in the basement.

Kick It. As 23 said.

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From: Leeds
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posted September 07, 2008 10:08 PM         

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So we are trying to work out the astrological influence of your mind?

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From:
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posted September 07, 2008 10:10 PM         

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An afflicted moon and/or mercury will do this too. Especially the pluto aspects to them, with the opposition being the worst.

I can see a moon in scorpio or aqua, in hard aspect to pluto, bringing this type of resentment.

Maybe a mercury in sag afflicted, say...square uranus or pluto?

Is this person you??

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 07, 2008 10:37 PM         

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You guys couldn't just play along?

1. No. It's not me. I'm working backwards. I'm the one who will potentially not be forgiven. So, instead of influencing your responses by showing you a chart, I wanted a clean gathering of data.

then when we are done, the chart will be revealed and the common thread in your responses, if it shows up in the chart, will most likely tell me of the probability of me being disowned and cast off.

So, if most of you get a unanimous outcome about an aspect that is in this persons chart, I'll be happier with that than you guys looking at the chart and trying to see things that aren't probably there.

2. I described probably half the earth with the riddle I gave, but similar behaviours sometimes come from different parts of the chart. So, how many ways can a person be what I described in astro? One behavior can be manifested by different components.

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posted September 07, 2008 11:02 PM         

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Okay, sorry. I'll try harder Ms. Virgo.

Planets in the 8th house will help with this.

A strong ego, probably sun also. Aspects to mars, pluto, mercury.

Maybe mars in tight aspect to pluto, jupiter, mercury or neptune. Actually, it can be any of the planets besides venus unless it's a hard aspect. Ditto with the neutral planets. They will depend on the proximity of the closest planet and the nature of the aspect to mars.

Pluto in the 1st house. Planets in the 12th, making the grudge being their undoing.

It could be so many things. The whole chart needs to be taken into account. There isn't a universal rule for an aspect causing a behavior, which makes astrology seem a bit contrived. So many shades of gray don;t bode well.

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posted September 07, 2008 11:24 PM         

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Well, there's something I did years ago that I still haven't forgiven myself for. It wasn't even that bad in the grand scheme of things, the person I "harmed" has long forgiven me (if ever even that harmed in the first place). And yet whenever something reminds me of the event, I relive it and hate myself as much as I did in the moment when I realized what I had done.

And when I think about why I'm so angry at myself for this, I think it's because I'm idealistic. What I did strongly violated the way I believe people should be treated. It's like in that moment I detached from my Moon and much of what it values (in Leo in the 10th house, trine Neptune, sextile Pluto). So because the action so violated who I am at a core level, I will forever hate what I did.

Then I have my Mercury in water, and I think that placement is the most prone to reliving the emotion that accompanied an experience because with water there's always an emotion attached to perception. I think Scorpio and Cancer especially are most prone to do that.

So for this person, I'd look for Mercury in water or aspecting the Moon. A Mercury aspect to Pluto would also make sense.

And then I would look to their Moon and see how the event would've deeply hurt the Moon. The person's consciousness (Mercury and Sun) may not always focus on the event, but it's always there below sea level, and when Mercury is triggered to remember the event, the pain Moon experienced will all be relived again.

I can't really guess what the Moon sign and aspects would be though. I think different experiences would harm different types of Moons. One would never fully forgive betrayal, one humiliation, one abandonment, and so on.

But I do think Neptune would be in there b/c the person is stuck on some ideal way the world and a lover, friend, family member, whoever, should behave. And the person's ideals can't forgive reality. It's strange b/c Neptune and Pisces can bring true and complete forgiveness, but I think it can also make forgiveness that much harder b/c to do so the person has to accept a major wounding to their ideals.

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 07, 2008 11:41 PM         

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LadyNeptune- I'm probably attempting the impossible but when I want to know something, it's difficult to be idle even if doing something is futile. Thank you.

jane. Thank you. You think like me so that was nicely filed info there. I'm surprised that Scorpio is not the lead in this scenario. But it did, just not as much as the Moon and Pluto thing.

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posted September 08, 2008 02:00 AM         

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Unmoved - I hope you don't keep us in suspense about the person's astro details for too long. LOL about the similar thinking. As I've told you before, it's true on this end too, but now I'm realizing what a dirty mind you must have.

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posted September 08, 2008 02:22 AM         

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lol I would've actually said Capricorn influence - but you made the unforgiveness sound too passionate

I think Capricorn influenced people remember things but they will continue to be nice to you. It's not so much that they don't forgive but they lose the trust.

It really is not that emotional or passionate and they don't hate you or anything lol

The way you described it sounds more like Pluto aspects, or Scorpio & Cancer influence.

But maybe it's just your take on things that is more emotional than the person you are describing feels about it - in which case they may be a Capricorn lol

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From: Born in S.Africa
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posted September 08, 2008 04:01 AM         

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jane jane jane you caught me with my pants down with that one. ROFL!!!!

Dirty mind? Me? I thought it was misery that liked company, but gutter minds do too. Ha ha... Sorry! I am not being recruited to your "bible study" "orGs" <----pronuonce as OR Geeez!

Honestly, I wouldn't say I have a dirty mind. I would say I am... Ag!! D'you know what? Why am I dissing and fronting for beautiful my mind?

My mind is my hero, my rock, my sword, my shield and the wind beneath my wings during errr... ahem... the Recession (yeah, that's what they call it now)

I can't afford to be your accomplice though. You have you man, I have an electric blanket, so I am not encouraging myself to______________________________ *eyes gloss over*

What is a dirty mind anyway? I don't understand the concept, do you?

CoralF - I would like to apologize for taking so long to reply, I got distracted. I think I am a dramatic writer and I am very emotive when I am trying to express something as fragile as a person's character. But, that's how I saw it.

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