posted September 25, 2008 11:01 AM         

People leave each other for so many different reasons, but I have a few thoughts on your situation.

You're just finishing your Saturn Return in Virgo, in your 1st house. Right now, Saturn is snugly conjoined to your NN in that same house, the house of yourself--your body. identity and how you face the world. A first Saturn Return is like a huge exam...if you pass it, your life gets inexpressably more wonderful. If you fail it, you get a chance to take it again, in another 28 years. Right now, you are dealing with Saturn's lessons. Saturn brings a lot of strong, disciplined energy to help you turn your life into the life you want--and right now, you have the chance to act toward that life! Don't wait for 28 years.

Your Node is conjunct to this guy's Pluto. In my experience, North Node conjunctions feel totally karmic and kind of obsessing. I'm responding here, instead of in your other thread, because I think this relationship is about deeper issues in your life, not just about your attraction/repulsion with this guy.

Your Saturn return lessons are about how you see yourself, how you assert yourself and how you project your energies onto others.

Your task now is to be totally honest with yourself about exactly what you really want in a relationship, exactly how you are really feeling in your body and heart, and exactly how you got so hurt years before even meeting this guy.

I think it will be very liberating to leave him (or let go of him/let him leave) even if you feel you "shouldn't." The right partnership really feels right...it makes you feel thrilled, wholehearted, openhearted, proud, secure, happy, safe and like you're doing exactly what you want on every level. The sex just feels right. You don't feel sad, strange, lonely or confused.

This is not the right partnership. You're feeling addicted to him, because you're looking for something else that you can't seem to find anywhere. A first house Saturn return challenges you to let go of lies, excuses, and addictions and really face yourself.

posted September 25, 2008 11:26 AM         

I just felt very down this morning, and unloved and started to feel sorry for myself, which I try hard not to do, but sometimes it'll just sneak up on me.

Then in the midst of all this depression, I thought here is this older guy who treats me wonderfully, and is everything I want emotionally from a man, but he's not physically what I want or desire, so I'm conflicted inside about whether I should just be with him and give it a try, or let him go and not waste anyone's time. I've always gone for the hot guy who treats me like crap, so this was something new. A man who treats me so wonderfully, but I'm not attracted to.

Lucia23, what you said is competely right!

"The right partnership really feels right...it makes you feel thrilled, wholehearted, openhearted, proud, secure, happy, safe and like you're doing exactly what you want on every level. The sex just feels right. You don't feel sad, strange, lonely or confused."

I have been trying to settle for less than what I want, and trying to be attracted to this man, that I'm not attracted to because he is so good to me. If I have to try so hard to be attracted to someone it is not right. It's just like you said, it should just feel natural. This doesn't. Thank you for helping me Lucia! I think it's time to let him go!

In general I wonder if there are just some things about a woman that makes men stay, and some things that make them leave? Do men stay longer with low maintenance women?
Quiet women? Submissive women? Are they more likely to leave the dominating woman?

I don't know what the formula is, and how some women are able to keep their man forever, and ever, and some, like me just get left. I guess it's probably me!

posted September 25, 2008 12:36 PM         

As for why men leave, in general--it REALLY varies from man to man. My ex stayed with me for like 100 years and still wants me back(I left him), and I couldn't get the guy I fell for after him to even give me a chance. Go figure.

I talk with lots of women about this stuff, and there are a wide variety of types that have a man stay with them, and a wide variety of types that have men run fleeing. None of it makes logical or intuitive sense. One of my most beautiful friends, also a brilliant woman who earned her own living, nurtured and cherished her husband, cooked him delicious dinners, loved adventure, used to date a man who is now married to a top supermodel, and loved sex got dumped by her ex. She thought they were happy--they still talked all the time and had great sex and she was madly in love with him and wanted to be with him forever.

And on the other side, I know a wide variety of unpleasant women--shrill, crazy, ballbusting ones AND silent, passive doormats--who have men who don't leave them.

It's so complicated and confusing, and I think trying to make rules about it can hurt you. Each relationship between two people is complex, unique and individual. People leave because they are confused, frightened and disturbed--or restless and seeking excitement--or more mature than when they started the relationship, with a better sense of what's right for them.

Also--sometimes two people can have a connection that is important to both of them, but it doesn't mean the relationship should last forever.

posted September 25, 2008 01:13 PM         

According to my informal little survey, 75% left for another woman (usually this woman was very beautiful but dumb) and 25% left because they just no longer had feelings for their wife or girlfriend. These answers didn't surprise me. Instead, I decided to dig a little deeper and ask why they felt they could leave an amazing woman for women who were lacking in substance, to put it gently or why they fell out of love with their girlfriend/wife.

Every single man except two said essentially the same thing: they didn't feel like a man around these amazing women. These women didn't "need" them at all. Hell, these women didn't even need these men to help them maintain their cars or fix things around the house. They were fiercely independent and very smart. The men who had affairs said that the new women they found were very beautiful, dumb and a little bit needy. The women who were clingy to the extreme were just flings. However, these beautiful women who were mildly dumb and mildly needy ended up being the second wives or long-term girlfriends of these men.

These men told me that independence, kindness, intelligence and obviously, beauty are all very attractive qualities, but ultimately they want a woman who makes them feel like a man. They want a young, beautiful woman who is not a complete moron, but at the same time isn't unbelievably brilliant. They want a woman who occasionally asks them for help.

They often try to tell people the politically correct qualities that they desire in a woman: independence, intelligence, sense of humor, etc

But what they really want is a beautiful, slightly dependent and mildly dumb female.

Keep in mind that I asked only 50 people, so this isn't a perfect survey.

posted September 25, 2008 01:48 PM         

quote:

---

I've always gone for the hot guy who treats me like crap, so this was something new. A man who treats me so wonderfully, but I'm not attracted to.

---

It sounds like you are trying to avoid making the same mistake again, but in doing so you have gone to the other extreme. There must be someone just right for goldilocks, someone reasonably attractive who can conduct himself decently.

Maybe if you ask a sensitive friend they can tell you where they think you go wrong in picking men. A truthful answer why your husband left you might also bring some closure, but you might never get that.

posted September 25, 2008 06:05 PM         

I was mowing along the edge and it is slippery and steep and it just slid in the pond a bit. It wasn't like I drove in the pond

Anyway. In times past I was the one who left, its complicated, I always felt suffocated, now I don't. It's the person your'e with, you will find the right one.

posted September 25, 2008 06:11 PM         

LOL hahahahaha

posted September 25, 2008 09:10 PM         

Yep, it is true that men do like to feel needed. In my neighborhood, there used to be a woman who was so needy and rather bitchy. Despite her unpleasant personality, her husband refused to leave her even though he really hated her. That was because he felt that if he left her, she would be unable to survive on her own. Now it's best not to keep a man around who hates you, so that's why extreme clinginess should be avoided. But asking your husband once and while to change your car's oil, kill that "scary" spider or allowing him to comfort you after a hard day at work, makes him feel needed.

Haha, thanks. Sometimes I love to explore a topic in depth despite my Gemini sun. I have Saturn in Scorpio, which is my chart ruler plus moon, mars and venus all aspecting pluto in Scorpio. Pluto is also conjunct my midheaven and is in my tenth house, so Scorpio is quite strong in my chart.

Haybelly,

posted September 25, 2008 09:13 PM         

Astra - I love your survey!! Thanks for the insight!!!

GemGemGem - sorry to hear that you're not feeling great today. My partner (a woman) left me on my Saturn Return for a blonde cutie 10 years younger than me. I turned from being a Leo pussycat to an injured agonized Lioness. Not a pretty sight.

However, as painful and confusing as it was, it certainly opened the way to honest self-evaluation and the start to a plan toward better living.

Sorry I have no instant advice to give you GemGemGem, just look after your health and focus on your needs for now.

posted September 25, 2008 09:25 PM         

Thanks! By the way, it's best not to ask your boss for his reply in surveys like this. Mine gave me that icy Scorpio glare that I managed to get rid of by buying him cinnamon buns. He then talked in depth about each ex-wife or girlfriend and why he left them. I was shocked that he said anything. LOL.

The other men were not as intimidating and difficult to get information out of. Men can be surprisingly open about their feelings as long as you promise them beer.

posted September 26, 2008 12:40 PM         

My ex-husband (husband at the time) was throwing me a huge birthday party. We were all dancing, drinking and having a great time. He got a little drunk and pulled her to the side and went on and on about how much he loved me with all his heart. Then at the end of all the gushing, he said...."But I wish she would just let ME be the man sometimes. I just want to feel like a MAN."

I brushed this off as a drunken rant, but now I think he was truly pouring out his heart, and telling her how he truly felt.

I am a bit needy emotionally, but I am fiercely independent and a control freak in everything else! I have to have the final decision and final word. I guess that can make a man feel like he is "less of a man". Hmmm...maybe that's why men leave me! haha!

But it's like that movie the Stepford Wives. Does a man want a woman who's going to listen to EVERYTHING he says, and follow orders like a robot. If we have an opinion, are we to keep it to ourselves? It's our job to be a dansel in distress? To dress up and be sweet, and tell him how good he is in bed, and what a great provider he is, how strong, and how wonderful he is?

Whatever happened to real men, who are supportive and not threatened by a women's success,independence, or intelligence.

Haybelly, I love the lawn mower story. I'm sure he did go running to his friends and telling them how he rescued you from the mower and drowning in the pond. Hey wait a minute, if he's such a man, why are YOU mowing the lawn. Isn't he supposed to be doing his manly chores! haha.

BlueMoon, you are right, I did go from one extreme to another. Wow, I didn't even realize that until you pointed it out. I think I'm going to take a little rest, and give up on men for a while. I need time to re-center myself.

Koiflower, I will take your advise and try to take care of myself for now and try to heal. I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you. I love all my Leo friends dearly, as they have such warm, tender, big hearts. The fact that it happened on your Saturn return (as mine did too) means that person was supposed to be pruned out of your life. I hope things are much better for you now. Being left by someone you love is painful on the heart, but can also be brutal on the ego. I'm trying to recover from both.

posted September 26, 2008 01:11 PM         

Sometimes it takes a woman to get things done! Yes, my husband embellishes all my "situations" he was probably wishing I was mowing in a bikini!

He coaches football and this time of year I have to be super wife and mom because he is so wrapped up in football. Sometimes I think I need to be a football so he will pay attention to me :0 He loves it and I love him and its all good. I am learning that you don't tell offense to "hit someone" or defense "run the ball" Football is foreign to me and words like "sconces" and "finials" and interior design are foreign to him.

posted September 26, 2008 02:54 PM         

There should be another thread about why women tolerate some men!