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Author Topic:   Stone Cold Saturn
Gooober
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Posts: 472
From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 01, 2008 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
so i've decided that capricorn men have the stone cold heart of saturn himself (now all you cappies out there dont get me wrong, i love capricorns and i have pretty strong capricorn placements myself, but this guy is just cold). we've had this 'relationship' on and off (more on than off) for a couple of years now. problem is he's my ex husband's childhood friend -- or that's what he claims the problem is, which i understood for a while and even agreed with him since i am friends with my ex still and didnt want anyone to get hurt.
so i understand that our relationship is complicated and i've been patient with him for a long time now, i myself felt very guilty at times (although i know it's not cheating, he's my ex, but still..) but now my ex husband is getting married and we've both moved on and a couple of weeks ago my cappy guy calls me to tell me just how deeply he feels for me, and it was so heartfelt, and since cappys rarely express themselves, i felt deeply touched and happy (my cappy venus jumped with joy at the intensity of his expression). and then he tells me it hurts him cuz he realizes that we cant be together owing to our complicated circumstances and he's never going to feel how he feels for me and he's never going to get over me, but there's this girl he met who's crazy about him, who ironically reminds him of me, and he's thinking...THINKING, that he should maybe be with her
now call me crazy, but i feel really really hurt. i waited so long for him to tell me just how he feels, but when he does tell me it's to use it as an introduction to break my heart. stone cold saturn -- all logic, practicality and reasoning. cant capricorns ever think with their hearts? i mean gimme a break, if he cant conceive of a future with me (although he wishes he met me first cuz apparently i understand him more than anyone else and he gets my craziness and respects my patience and love and 'the way i am') why tell me how much he cares about me? why dangle these dreams in front of me only to tell me he is planning his life with someone else? what am i supposed to with this information? console myself? am i supposed to think oh well at least he loves me and is doing the 'right' thing. selfish. just plain and simple selfish is what it is. it's like hey i'm gonna do what i want, but i dont wanna let go of you either cuz i think you're too good to be true. selfish.
i'm sorry for the long vent, but i am in a lot of pain right now... anyone have any opinions on this? any perspectives that might make this easier on me?
i'm posting my chart and his as well although i dont have his birth time, so if anyone has any ideas about the source of this bizarre behavior i would be rea1ly grateful.
thank you all so much

love n peace

-Gooober

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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Gooober
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Posts: 472
From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 01, 2008 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
mine:

his:

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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Gooober
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Posts: 472
From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 02, 2008 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
bump

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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blue moon
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From: U.K
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posted October 02, 2008 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
and then he tells me it hurts him cuz he realizes that we cant be together owing to our complicated circumstances and he's never going to feel how he feels for me and he's never going to get over me, but there's this girl he met who's crazy about him, who ironically reminds him of me, and he's thinking...THINKING, that he should maybe be with her
now call me crazy, but i feel really really hurt.

Crazy?

I would feel quite insulted. Hurt, too.

Don't you think you deserve to be swept off your feet with a declaration of undying love?

He's not good enough for you, love.

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Gooober
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Posts: 472
From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 02, 2008 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
i know..that's how i feel too. what is it in his chart that makes him behave like this? i'm so heartbroken right now

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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blue moon
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posted October 02, 2008 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Pluto/Jupiter in Opposition is not an easy aspect, and here it is forced into a T-Square with Mercury in Capricorn.

The glimpse of the whirring cogs of his mind wasn't pleasant.

Mercury is a small planet whizzing around the Sun, Jupiter is a large ball of gas. Put that together you have a BIG MOUTH. There are some things you might think, you don't say. Pluto Square Mercury gets to the heart of the matter, but not always in a way the other person wants to hear. Jupiter Opposite Pluto imposes its opinion without considering the other side.

Put it all together, you get someone who thinks rationally, and logically, but is too inclined to offer the insights of their mind where it is better to keep quiet.

You get together with him, you will live with this every day. Most days it will be fine, every now and then you will get served up little treats like this one.

The good thing is, he has revealed the truth about what he really thinks/feels. Mostly when people are being mercenary and balancing things up in this way they will not say, or if they do, maybe to a third party. Now, you have it on the line.

A good friend of mine had something happen similar to him, he was disgusted by what the girl said to him, I think he still loves her in a way, but he got a glimpse of how mercenary she really was and it cut him to the core. He never really spoke to her again and never felt the same way about her, not as strongly. There was a glimmer still there, but he had seen the truth. Long term he was happier without her.

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Love
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From: Canada
Registered: Feb 2006

posted October 02, 2008 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message
Maybe other Virgo Mooners can offer up their perspective here, but having been with several men with a Virgo Moon, I can offer my outside experience.

With a Virgo Moon, rationalizing the emotions tends to be the default. My sense has been that although there is a deep sensitivity to this Moon, there is an inherernt need to keep feelings categorized and thus under control.

I would think especially with his Cappy Mercury what you would hear (no matter what was actually going on internally) would be filtered through a process of restraint, inhibition and careful analysis. With Pluto squaring his Mercury and retro Mars squaring his Moon, I suspect that there are indeed other things going on beneath the surface...but like blue moon said, this will probably lead to his own internal confusion being played out within your relationship.

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Gooober
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From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 02, 2008 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
thank you both blue moon and love for your perspectives. as far as i know him, and i know him better than a lot of other people do; there is much more going on beneath the surface. i also know that he tends to put a cork on the bottle of his emotions even if it hurts him. what is hurting me right now is the fact that he used to be more open with me (more so than anyone else) his best friend used to be really surprised at how i could bring out a softer side of him which everyone rarely used to see. and now it's just like..gone. but you are totally right about the internal confusion guys because he called me again today and not a word about the other girl, just kept on telling me how much he misses me.
what does he want??

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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CoralFrequency
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posted October 02, 2008 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoralFrequency     Edit/Delete Message
If he doesn't want a relationship - that's his prerogative, but why is he hiding behind: "it's just too complicated" - "the big bad circumstances are making me do it"

I think he should take accountability for his own actions or lack there of. All relationships involve some work. Maybe yours involves more work than usual - I don't know.

If his choice is to never have a relationship with you, because he is unwilling to put in the work necessary - as he would have to get out of his comfort zone, then that's what he should be saying.

In that case, I'm unsure about his "love" - or perhaps the highest from of love he can feel, comes somewhere behind comfort.

I'm actually surprised at how well you're taking it. I think I would've given him a piece of my mind.

But maybe that's what he likes about you

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Gooober
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From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
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posted October 03, 2008 12:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
i didnt say anything at all at first, but then after tossing and turning all night for a few days i called him and said 'just because i dont say anything, doesnt mean i dont feel it' and i basically told him how i understand where he's coming from, but i'm a human being not a machine and my feelings are hurt cuz i have an emotional attachment towards him.and i told him that at the end of the day i wish for him to be happy,and i can see how we have more complications than maybe others but it doesnt mean that i'm not feeling pain. his response was that he knows what i'm feeling cuz he knows me and then he tried to break it down to me again.. our 'situation' that is. and then he sounded really miserable so i apologized for making him feel guilty and left it at that.
sometimes i think this is all my fault

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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AcousticGod
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From: CA, USA
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posted October 03, 2008 02:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
The intensity of the connection seems tied up in those exactly conjunct Mercuries. Meeting of the minds so to speak.

I've got a Virgo Moon, Love. I think you're about right with your assessment. In fact, I'd say a Mercurial Moon, whether Virgo or Gemini, bring out Mercurial qualities even more making the native's Moon an additional thinking planet. There is a lot of restraint with a Virgo Moon. We're supposed to be known for illustrating our love through actions moreso than words, and that can be true for me. Sometimes I do actually have trouble articulating what I feel verbally (I have Saturn opposite Mercury, too, and my Sun is square my Moon). There's also supposed to be an insecurity that we're not good enough to be loved.

Goober, as a Capricorn myself, that whole envisioning a future with the person is a pretty paramount requirement for me staying in a relationship. Unless there's some agreed upon time limit to the relationship (like one of the people is moving away), then we (or at least I) need to be able to see a future with the person. Is it possible you can neutralize (how's that for a dry word?) his perceived issue with going for his childhood friend's ex-wife? Can you negotiate out of and away from the "complicated" circumstances? Your ex is obviously getting married, and you're still friends with him, so it should be easy to get his blessing on your relationship.

Also, I don't know if this will help your perspective on things any, but it might be helpful to understand that you're the man in this relationship. You've got a masculine Sun, Moon, and Ascendant. He's got at least a feminine Sun and Moon. It doesn't completely change your gender roles or anything, but you should know that you are the more outrightly assertive [masculine] between you and him. He's the restrained, try-not-to-hurt-your-feelings [female] between you.

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aqua/scorp
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From: Middle Earth
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posted October 03, 2008 05:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aqua/scorp     Edit/Delete Message
Gooober i'm sorry to hear that you are going through this but i can relate in many ways as i am too going through a very simular pattern with a Cappy guy myself..only thing is my circumstances are different but boils down to the same thing so I really feel for you.

btw Im also Aquarius myself.

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Sun:Aquarius 11H
Moon:Scorpio 7H
Mercury:Aquarius 11H
Venus:Sagitarius 8H
Mars:Aries 12H
Jupiter:Pisces 12H
Saturn:Sagitarius 8H
Uranus:Sagitarius 9H
Neptune:Capricorn 9H
Pluto:Scorpio 7H
AC:Aries 12H
MC:Capricorn

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Gooober
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Posts: 472
From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 03, 2008 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
hey acousticgod, thanks for your response, it's great to get feedback from someone with the same sun and moon placement..
you are totally right about me being the man in the relationship, he is the more soft spoken, more 'feminine' one.although sometimes i wish i could just be the feminine one and let him be assertive (my aries rising talking, you know the deep seated desire every aries female has to be dominated).
you're also right about it being easy enough to get my ex husband's blessings for our relationship. now if only he had the balls to that step, then i would too.
i cant really go up to my poor libran ex husband and be like, hey listen, i know that you think that your friend is with this other girl, but he's really in love with me, and for the record so am i, and the only thing which is stopping him from being with me is the fact that you are his childhood friend. now would you please be a dear and explain it to him that you want both of us to be happy and that you have no problems with our relationship? yeah just so you know, he might be a little shocked cuz he thinks he's being the bigger person over here. thanks, love you, you're the best!
imagine how that conversation would go.
although i do think that if i give him a little more time, he might negotiate his own way out of our 'complicated' circumstances.. with my help of course. but i don know how much more of this emotional battering i can take...onto the red carpet of my reverie you walked with hobnail boots (isnt that the line?)

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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annaf
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posted October 03, 2008 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for annaf     Edit/Delete Message
I dont think it's the capricorn part that is the problem here. Looking at his chart I think he has some placements which are pulling in different directions. For one, yes the virgo moon might not be dealing too well with the complicated situation, overanalysing the difficulties and seeing more obstacles to your future than there necessarily have to be .I'm a capricorn sun with virgo moon and that mercurial moon does get on my nerves often. Instead of just FEELING things, you are constantly analysing, analysing, analysing... But I would never ever pull away from someone that I feel for strongly....I find it odd that just as the situation seems to get hopeful with your ex marrying, this guy pulls away from you....especially considering that he has just declared his love for you. He does have venus in scorpio which does make for deep emotions, but there's also his uranus in the same house. I dont think his venus and uranus are conjunct, but still his venus will feel the uranian energy. So I could imagine that when he really falls for someone deeply (venus scorpio) he might feel the urge to escape especiall when the situation is so complicated his moon in virgo hasnt found a practical rational solution to your problem. Add in that mars in gemini opposite neptune and I know from experience with s.o. who has this that this placement will not really have the staying power to stick it out through the rough patches. Often the easier road will be preferred. So from his chart I dont think it's that capricorn part that has made him decide the way he has. I'm not only saying this because I am a capricorn, but also because I know several capricorn men and I can only say when these guys were truely in love the saturn influence will give them the backbone to ride it out, not to escape. Especially not when being faced with a problem that shouldnt be an insurmountable problem. It'S not like he has been going behind your ex-husbands bakc while you were still together. And your ex is gettting MARRIED himself.

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Gooober
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From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 03, 2008 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
hmmm...those were some interesting insights annaf. i'm not completely blaming the capricorn part of him, i mean look at my own chart, i have a strong stellium in capricorn myself. but i do feel that men born under saturn just tend to have this coldness about them at times...
also you are right about his venus conjunct/ close to his uranus making him flee when the feelings get too deep and the situation cant be rationalized (something which i, as an aquarian should be able to relate to, but for some reason i do the opposite thing and get too involved), but i wont say he has no staying capacity at all..we have had rough patches before,particularly when i was in the middle of the divorce and he first fell for me, but that's when i backed out...for a while, but we were never able to let go of each other completely. i wish i knew what aspects make me so magnetically attracted towards him. i mean aside from the venus/mars and venus/pluto aspects, i dont see much of a synastry. and yet here i am feeling like my soul is being torn into tiny little pieces

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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AcousticGod
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From: CA, USA
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posted October 04, 2008 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
I think you're Mercuries being conjunct is what the magnetic pull is. Mercury is, of course, important to him as that rules his Moon (it rules my chart and Moon; my last relationship was with a girl whose Sun sat on my Mercury).

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Gooober
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From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 05, 2008 05:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
so i played around a little with our charts and apparently we have more 'relationship' aspects than i thought to begin with, though not always easy ones. these stand out:

his chiron in aries is conjunct my asc, n this is wat i found..
Chiron is known as the "wounded healer," and there is often one or more major wounds or traumas around the sign and/or house of Chiron in a person's chart. There can be decades between such wounds, so no one can afford to be complacent in these areas. Getting over the wound or trauma may involve realizing one's spiritual identity beyond worldly personality and ego, winning at a soul level while losing externally, and only later over time coming into one's own authority in the world in a particular subject area or niche. Chiron by conjunction in relationship synastry can bring great attraction and common interests, then sudden, inexplicable and bizarre reversals - the potential for mutual growth is enormous if the parties don't destroy each other and themselves in the process.

my venus is sextile his north node..
This pairing is a strong indication of a binding tie between you. You are likely to find it easy to cooperate with one another, perhaps even combining your talents successfully. A major focus of this relationship is romantic love, and in all likelihood the feelings for one another were instant. There is a true feeling of enjoyment and pleasure with one another.

Ascendant conjunction Jupiter: This is an extremely benevolent union. The Jupiter person likes and admires the ascendant individual and the ascendant person returns the same feelings with a mutual trust of each other. There is usually excitement when these two get together. If romance is indicated, then this deepens the feelings but if not, then these two will end up as friends. The Jupiter person has the capacity to make the ascendant person feel good about him/herself. The ascendant person is often instrumental in helping the Jupiter person take advantage of new worlds of opportunity.

his mars is conjunct my north node and my mars is conjunct his north node..

This combination of the planet Mars and the North Node indicates a fiery and fated relationship. This association makes a strong impact on both parties whether they are lovers or enemies. It is also possible that they involved in a dramatic or energetic project together. Whatever the path of this relationship, it is destined to change the course of their lives, in particular that of the north node person. Passion and an intense desire to relate may be central to this relationship. However, it is also possible that arguments and violence are at the core of this association. The challenge for both is to keep this association lively and positive so that fate can play its hand for the best possible outcome. In fact the north node person may benefit directly through the role that the mars person plays in his/her life.

neptune conjunct south node:
The Neptune person makes it difficult for the person to get out of any rut they are in by confusing the issue, so positive aspects from other planets are necessary to avoid stagnation; the Node person can bring out some of the lower side of the other person's Neptune qualities, such as causing them to fantasize more, or live more in a dream world, or seek escapism.

pluto conjunct descendant..
If Pluto is closely conjunct the seventh house cusp, this can be a deeply passionate, intense and powerful relationship, but it may involve secrecy, jealousy, underhandedness or manipulation. If Pluto is within a couple of degrees of the seventh house cusp, and there are major hard aspects from Pluto to the seventh house person's planets, there may be an element of obsession to the relationship.

aside from these we have the venus/mars aspects as well as the venus/pluto aspects and a lot of other conjunctions from his sun to my cappy planets..

so itz his virgo moon which'll be the death of me!

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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Gooober
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From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 05, 2008 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
bumpy..

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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Gooober
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From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
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posted October 06, 2008 12:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
AG..where art thou AG?!

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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AcousticGod
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posted October 06, 2008 01:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Here!

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Gooober
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Posts: 472
From: Dhaka, Bangladesh
Registered: Oct 2001

posted October 06, 2008 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gooober     Edit/Delete Message
i was wondering what your opinion is on these aspects i found...

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while the soul slumbers God talks to us in numbers..

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

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From: CA, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted October 06, 2008 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
I don't have any opinion on them.

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