posted October 09, 2008 06:23 AM         

I'm going to start by asking a few questions...

First one: Do you think that fate and destiny are the same thing?

Second question: Define what free will means to you, and how it can co exist with astrology.

If you can or feel comfortable doing so, please give examples in your life of why you do or don't believe in these.

8th

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."
Ecclesiastes 9:11

posted October 09, 2008 06:30 AM         

I believe fate and destiny are different things. Fate is something that is meant to transpire no matter what - such as a meeting with someone during a lifetime. Destiny is what you are given to do with yourself - your ultimate potential or service to God and/or humanity.

posted October 09, 2008 07:03 AM         

I do believe in fate, destiny and free will.

Just lately I started asking myself who makes us want what we want?
Is our will really free? Isn`t it determined by our experiences and our personality? AT least to a certain degree?

So, I actually think our character / personality may be our fate. And according to your experiences and personality we react differently to whatever fate throws into our way.

posted October 09, 2008 07:12 AM         

That is some kind of telepathy: I was thinking about you as well.
I have deleted my email address with buena36, but can come around to the Forum.
What are you doing in the bed? What time is there now?

posted October 09, 2008 07:15 AM         

I think that in destiny are: free will and fate. Destiny gives us sometimes free will and sometimes not. Sometimes is good to us and sometimes is not.

posted October 09, 2008 07:19 AM         

quote:

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Destiny is something we choose to go after.... Fate is something that happens to us, and seemingly takes away our choices, but in fact actually leads us back towards the choice of Destiny we already made before we were born.

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Fate = something that happens to us (caused by outside forces)
Destiny = is achieved only thru our participation
Free will = is the vehicle that can lead us to our destiny.

posted October 09, 2008 07:42 AM         

I have to pray to destiny to give me more free will.

In fact all is a bit complicated and on the end I don't know what is what.

posted October 09, 2008 11:56 AM         

example - remember the movie the butterfly effect? Every time the boy went back into the past and made one small different choice, his present and future was altered. All scenarios could have been his fate or destiny but each choice he made altered his or someone elses present.

Neat idea, think about it, if we could go back to a specific year date time moment and change one signifiacnt thing that may have happend, our whole lives would have been different.

Destiny or fate...maybe I was meant to meet mark and have him in my life for my other half, maybe that is my destiny or fate, maybe choices I made contributed to when that might have happened. LIke maybe we would have met sooner if I hadn't made a chioce to leave state and he hadn't made the choices he did. Our whole lives MAY have been different.

Maybe you have an idea that will prosper you and that is your thing that the universe or God gave to you to do, perhaps you ignore that thing, had you listened to your inner voice and made that CHOICE, you would be posperous and doing what you were meant to do, you made maybe another choice that put it off, your head full of doubt or confusion and spend many years perhaps, doing something else bringing strife or hardship or struggle against basically yourself, when you finally get to doing what you are supposed to be doing, you are living your destiny. Sometimes it can pass you right by and people never do what they were destined to do and therefore never truly at peace and happy.

posted October 09, 2008 12:20 PM         

quote:

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Do you think that fate and destiny are the same thing?

---

Pretty much, yeah.
Without looking up a definition, I see fate as something that willl happen, while destiny is something that should happen.

They should be the same thing, just different words.

quote:

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Define what free will means to you, and how it can co exist with astrology.

---

Free will means control/choice over events that happen.
How it can co-exist?
My natal chart says this is the best time to meet that special someone, lets say you each have one person...that one that everybody keeps talking about (ok, its mainly women banging on about this)
So, I should meet them tomorrow.
That is my destiny or fate, whatever you want to call it.

Instead of going out and meeting someone, I decide to lock myself in a room with no windows and no doors for a whole year.

posted October 09, 2008 03:57 PM         

I also think that karma is only what what the soul chooses to experience so what we call fate is our choice before we get here. What we call destiny is the path we can choose to follow and which our soul urges us to do. And free will is not only whether we will choose to follow our destiny, but how will we do it??

We can be joyful, resistant, serene, foggy, anxious, controlling, frustrated, etc. as we follow (or ignore) our destiny.

In terms of astrology, I think that our birth chart gives us our starting point and we have the option to live out its highest potential. Some say that it's possible to transcend the birth chart entirely!

posted October 09, 2008 05:40 PM         

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Capricorn sun / Scorpio rising / Sagittarius moon

posted October 09, 2008 08:17 PM         

But like you, there are certain events which have transpired in my life that could knock your socks off with the synchronicities. And since I don't believe in co-incidence I feel (I *know*) there is a very clear element of fate and destiny involved.

These days I try not to concern myself with the details and focus more on accepting what is. I only allow myself the luxury of investigating karma when I'm studying astrology since I am able to detach myself from it on an emotional level more clearly when looking at a chart.

posted October 09, 2008 09:29 PM         

I've been dealt another blow from fate today, or I'd respond in more detail.

Sometimes fate just plain sucks.

posted October 10, 2008 01:30 PM         

What free will means, to me, is the instrinsic right of every individual to excerise one's own willpower; choices. The natal chart does not compel events only serves as a guiding tool ie North star.

posted October 10, 2008 08:37 PM         

Buena...I loved the same quote that Deux picked out! Thanks for those links!

DD...that is a very interesting perspective with fate as our personalities as opposed to events. That ones been rolling in my mind since I read it!

PA and Kick It...You wrote something similar that I've often pondered which is the free will not to choose or to say no to an experience. I'm going to post another question at the end that switches it around a little. We can Say no, but how much power is truly in our hands to say yes, or make something come to pass?

Love, I agree completely. We have free will in our attitude (most of the time) or to be happy/unhappy regardless of what life throws at us.

Nattie...I know how you feel. The past year or more has been a wonderful Pluto square Sun experience.

Sunshine, I think about that too...would things have been different if only I had done this or that. I haven't seen The Butterfly Effect. Good one? It reminds me of another movie...

posted October 10, 2008 08:37 PM         

It basically shows the same woman with 2 parallel stories of potential realities that are occurring. One version, she catches the train to work and life goes on. The second version, she misses the train, gets fired, and finds her boyfriend having an affair. Each story takes on it's own life from there and except for a few things that were meant to be, the road to get to them splits in two.

The movie basically shows how certain events are predestined REGARDLESS OF OUR CHOICES. (These things occurred in both versions.) Other things were all kind of a chain reaction based on her choices.

I think that's how fate and free will fit together. There are some circumstances that are meant to happen and our choices along the way determine which one of a million paths we might take til we hit that point.

I believe that faith can change circumstances or bring things about, only because I've experienced it too many times.

Next question (what's my limit in one post?):

Can faith alter FATE? Or since we're talking astrology, can faith alter astrology? If so, how?

posted October 10, 2008 08:42 PM         

What about things that happen outside of your control. Do you feel they are predestined sometimes (fated)? Just curious.

Saronna,

I agree about the natal. What do you think about composite or Davison charts in terms of free will?

Augentier,

You got me thinking a bit about delving into astrology or whatever when you mentioned we're not supposed to know. Do you think looking at potential things hinders us instead of helps? I can see that happening, that's why I ask.

Deux,

How can we exercise free will MORE? What's the formula? I need it!

Koi,

No worries! Hope you got some rest!

posted October 11, 2008 08:14 AM         

I believe, it's great to have the knowledge of knowing self. But, what's the use of having the keys and not using them proactivly in my life? I have found experimenting with different charts help.

Also, I have discovered that using Edgar cayce's suggestions on doing a chart four and half hours before birth is more accurate. The belief is that the soul enters the physical body at least four and half hours before birth. I have never heard of the Davidson chart. What does the Davidson chart involve?

What helps me when I am down is using a daily action list. What helps is focusing on the question, "what can I do today to make my life better?".

Hugs 8th