posted October 23, 2008 12:45 PM         

I believe that Eris has to do with ideology,diversity

With Barack Obama(the son of a black and white woman) running for
president, there is a lot of focus on his just being black. There
seems to be a strong belief in the one drop rule (if you are part
black, then you are black). The thing is that is a racist rule that
was created to keep people of any black ancestry from having
relationships with whites. This one drop rule is strongly outdated.
After all, there is no slavery,Jim Crow laws,nor interracial marriage
bans. Even the 2000 US Census allowed people to pick more than one
box for race/ethnicity. This whole idea that you can't be more than
race is ridiculous. The idea that if you are mixed with the majority
race and a minority race,you can only identify with the minority race
is stupid. It's like many people don't seem to acknowledge that
interracial relationships are existent, and that they disregard the
existence of multiracial people. I also believe that being the
offspring of a black and a white parent is different from being the
offspring of parents that are "lightskinned blacks". One of the
reasons is that unlike having lightskinned blacks for parents, many
children of interracial black/white couples aren't viewed as being
biologically connected. Many can't see past skin color to even notice
that they have some feature of their white parents, and they say
things that they don't look like his/her white parent. Some of them
get annoyed when people assume that his/her white parent adopted him
or assume that any black adult that is with them is their
mother/father even though their mother/father is white. Many
offspring of interracial black white parents often are given a hard
time by some blacks for having a relationship partner the same race
as their white parent, and get accused of betraying their race
(black) and being called sell-out. Often, they given a hard time by
some whites that don't like blacks(to them,that includes anybody who
is part black) mixing with whites,and believe that interracial
marriage bans should have been kept in place.

Many offspring of black-white parents do embrace the one drop rule
because they know that society will mainly view them as black, and
even only date blacks. They know that they are black enough to be
called the n'word and other black racial slurs by some whites and
others that aren't black(some asians,hispanics), but they also know
what it's like to be called "zebra","oreo","mutt",and
even "confused" (mainly by som blacks). Many others defy society
and embrace all their heritage and date people of any race.

The great Abolutionist,former slave Frederick Douglass was the son of
a black slave woman and white man(might have been his master), and he
embraced both his heritages. His first wife was black,and his
2nd/last wife was white. Blacks including his family gave him a hard
time for marrying a white woman,and accused him of betraying his
race. Whites were angry with him too. His response was "My first
wife was the color of my mother, and my second wife is the color of
my father"

We are in the 2000's, and I believe that it's about time that we get
rid of the one drop rule as interracial relationships and multiracial
people are considerably increasing here in USA. The reality is that
we live in a multiracial USA, and we are mixing it up like never
before. Racial boundaries are being broken away
from,dissolved,obliterated,and being forced to redefine by many
people that are more than one race. These people are tolerant of
diversity because they are born from the tolerance of diversity.

I don't believe that Barack Obama can close the gap between black and
white. I believe that all the blacks and whites have to do that on
their own. This means dropping all barriers between them and
accepting that interracial relationships are a regular part of
society and that multiracial people like Barack do exist. They
shouldn't have to be forced to choose which one to belong in nor
should they be marginalized as only one race. There shouldn't be a
racial tug-a-war. Barack and other multiracial people belong to both
the black and white community and not just the black community. It
shouldn't be just Blacks that claim Obama, but Whites should also
claim Obama too. We don't have segregation laws. Interracial
marriage bans are non-existent here. Multiracial people are a fact
of life here. It's about time both blacks and whites wake up to that
reality. Frederick Douglass knew that the one drop rule was a
joke,and he lived over 200 years ago. It seems like he was more
modern in his thinking than we are as a society today. Lets get rid
of the Tower of Babel (God meant for the races to be separate)
Syndrome once and for all.

another thing ........This applies to not only black/white mixed
people but also people of any mixture. Barack Obama's half
sister,Maya is half Asian and half White. She doesn't belong to one
race either. It seems ludicrous to consider Obama as only a black
person when his own half sister is not even part black. Many mixed
black/white people do have halfsiblings that aren't part black. So
much for a brother being a "brotha" and a sister being a "sista"
which are words that I don't care to use. They just seem ridiculous
and irrelevant to people of mixed race ancestry.

I love this poem.....Biracial Hair......a teenage girl, Zora Howard
recites a deep,passionate poem of what it is to be biracial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HBkjtwFSQw

Organizations in regards to Multiethnic People

The Center for the Study of Biracial Children produces and
disseminates materials for and about interracial families and
biracial children. The Center provides advocacy, training and
consulting. Its primary mission is to advocate for the rights of
interracial families, biracial children, and multiracial people. We
believe this population has unique needs and challenges not addressed
by society's institutions. http://csbchome.org/

Association of Multiethnic Americans http://www.ameasite.org/

Interracial Voice http://www.interracialvoice.com/

MixedFolks.com http://www.mixedfolks.com/

http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/final.paper.pub/_pwfsfp/00000085.htm
http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/final.paper.pub/_pwfsfp/00000071.htm

Multiracial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiracial

multiracial people won a victory of sorts after years of effort when
in 1997, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) changed the
federal regulation of racial categories to permit multiple responses,
resulting in a new format for the 2000 United States Census, which
allowed participants to select more than one of the six available
categories, which were, in brief: "White," "Black or African
American," "Asian," "American Indian or Alaskan Native," "Native
Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander," and "Other." Further details are
given in the article: Race (U.S. census). The OMB made its directive
mandatory for all government forms by 2003.

Raymond Andrews

posted October 23, 2008 01:16 PM         

The teacher at the nursery school my children used to attend (they are too old now) was very embarrassed when she had to fill in a form about the children's ethnic background and had to approach the parents of anyone looking not entirely "white". Like mine. I just said, it's O.K, I know you have to do it.

posted October 24, 2008 08:39 PM         

That aside, isn't the "one drop rule" unique to the USA? (And possibly South Africa.)

posted October 24, 2008 10:07 PM         

I don't believe in quotas myself. I believe that people of color shouldn't get any special treatment but get in by their own merits,and they are capable of that too. However, I don't believe an Obama election would mean that there would be no need for quotas. That's a very simplistic view. Not every person of color is like Obama. He didn't even grow up in a black family nor did he grow up knowing his black family. He only saw his black father a few times. He was raised by his white mother and white maternal grandparents. He didn't grow up in any black neighborhoods nor was around a lot of blacks. Also many darkskinned blacks tend to be more discriminated against than lightskinned blacks and multiracial people w/ black. We don't know if things would be different if Obama's mother was also black like his father. He might not have gotten far in the presidential race if he was an average black man(in regards to how much black he has in him and having slave ancestry). He's not the average black person in that way. He was often accused by many blacks about not being black enough early in the presidential race because he's the son of a white woman and has no black slave ancestry. Some even think that Michelle is more feared by many whites than Obama is because she's an average black woman(in regards to how much black she has in her and has black slave ancestry),and so she often gets seen in an unfair way as the angry,hostile black woman which is stereotype that many whites have about blacks with black slave ancestry. I read an article talking about that,and it made a lot of sense. Also the opportunities of people of color can vary by class and not by shades of color. There are so many variables. Even things like learning disabilities could make things more complicated. Many blacks are even misdiagnosed and put into special education programs. Studies show that they are over-represented in special education classes,and they tend to not even belong in them. There are debates about the average intelligence of blacks on IQ tests with many arguing those tests are culturally biased. Also locations,neighborhoods,cities,states vary in how well people of color get opportunities and are successful. There is also de facto segregation that also affects the opportunities and success of blacks. There are so many factors.

I know from experience as a son of black man(never knew him nor his family) and white woman as well have grown up with a multiethnic stepfather(that has half Japanese daughters). I have a history of dyslexia,dyspraxia,special education including being misplaced with mentally retarded children in 1st grade. Then for 2 years after that, I was later placed in special education class for children with learning disabilities,neurodivergence. That's one of the reasons why I am a learning disability,neurodiversity advocate as well as believe in treating people like I want to be treated - a fellow human being with a soul and just being a nice and tolerant person. That's one of the reasons that I don't like receiving nor giving condescension and patronization as well as intellectual snobbery(especially calling people names in reference to having low intelligence). Being "special" wasn't something that I wanted because I wanted to be treated like a normal human being and not somebody who is inferior and deficient as well as being called "retard" because of my language and coordination problems connected to my Dyslexia and Dyspraxia. That's how I was treated when I was in special education,and so it motivate me to be a nice,tolerant,loving person to the point that I could be too nice and be a doormat. Those experiences also motivated me to be passionate about standing up for myself and others, having a chivalrous and activist spirit. Of course my own interracial parentage,multiracial heritage,and multicultural background also strongly factor in my tolerance of diversity as well as my idealism in that we should all love each other and be in unity.

any ways..it seems too simplistic to argue that quotas aren't needed if Obama is elected.

I agree...that it shouldn't matter if Obama is biracial. My point of the post was that the one drop rule is outdated because there is no slavery,no segregation laws,nor interracial marriage bans with interracial relationships and multiracial people are considerably increasing here in USA. There is a lot of people that just see him as being black including especially blacks. There has been a multiracial movement since the 1990's. That's why the 2000 US Census was the first census to allow people to pick more than 1 box for race. 2.4 percent of the US population identified as multiracial,and I was one of them.

here is stuff that I wrote about Eris awhile back.

Obama has a strong Eris influence that includes the following:

Sun-Eris Bilevel
(Sun trine/contraparallel Eris)

Based on reading Zane Stein's article and his keywords as well as Roy
MacKinnon's keywords and the charts that I have looked at, I believe
that Eris has to do with stirring stuff up, controversy, ideology,
civil/equal rights matters, standing up for self/others, advocacy,
bigotry, racism, minorities, race relations, diversity, .....all
those things are connected to each other too.

I don't believe that Eris is just about discord and controversy. I
think that there is more to it. That's like saying Pluto is just
about the underworld because Pluto/Hades is the God of the
underworld. Juan Revilla made good points that we can't just rely on
the name of the object for its astrological meaning. Uranus
personality traits fit more with Prometheus than the god, Uranus even
though Uranus/Ouranos was the sky god. Neptune personality traits fit
more with Dionysus/Bacchus even though Neptune/Poseidon was the sea god. I
looked at some asteroid stuff in regards to that. Juan Revilla said
that it's important to consider the orbital symbolism of the objects.
Philip Sedgwick takes into account the nodes and perihelion/aphelion
of the object.

Astronomical-oriented astrologers including Philip Sedgwick, Juan
Revilla, Zane Stein don't rely on the name of objects to derive
meaning from it.

Some of them suggested names to the astronomers that were accepted
for some centaurs after studying their orbits, physical properties.
Nessus was the first. http://www.zanestein.com/page4_2.htm

this is what Philip Sedgwick said
Star Blogs ~ The Galactic Times
Planet With No Name (Yet) ~ 02 Feb 2008

"So if you were Neil Young traversing the desert night sky on a
planet with no name, how could you derive any meaning for it? One,
consider its nature, uniqueness and physical profile. Two, assign
interpretive delineations by pondering the sign and degree of
critical orbital elements, specifically the node and closest point
the body makes to the Sun."

the closest point of the object makes to the sun is called the
Perihelion.

Here is some stuff by Juan Revilla who believes in the orbital
symbolism should be used to determine an object's astrological
meaning and not the name.

ORBITAL SYMBOLISM IN ASTROLOGY http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/essays/paradigm.html

Zane Stein even added Persephone/Proserpina symbolism in his Eris
keywords. Michael Brown wanted to name Eris "Persephone", and he even
said that it was like Persephone. He said that half of the time, Eris
orbits away from Pluto. But the names, "Persephone" and "Proserpina"
were given to asteroids. Obviously, astronomers gave mythological
names too readily. Michael Brown did give the name Eris after all the
discord among the astronomers. Methinks..that there could be
astrologers in discord. Many astrologers don't agree on many things
in Astrology like orbs are hotly debated.

I was thinking how Ceres and Pluto are made equals in Astronomy
because of the discovery of Eris, and how it can seem similar to how
Pluto/Hades and Ceres/Demeter shared equal amount of time with
Proserpina/Persephone.
Pluto got demoted to minor planet and assigned a minor planet number.
Ceres got promoted to dwarf planet. Therefore, Pluto and Ceres are
equals in astronomy. Pluto got the same treatment as Ceres. Ceres was
classed as a planet but got it's planetary status stripped after the
realization that it is one of many objects in the asteroid belt
between Mars and Jupiter. Now Pluto's planetary status is stripped
after the realization that it is one of many objects in the Kuiper
Belt. After they found Eris, the need to make a definition of what
planet had to be made. Astronomers even hypothesize there could be a
dozen Plutos out there and even some Mars-sized objects. Any
ways...Ceres and Pluto were made equals because of Eris, and so
that's one of the reasons that I believe Eris has to do with equal
rights, civil rights issues.. I am seeing Eris in civil rights, equal
rights events....especially involving Black civil rights issues. Eris
can be related to minority rights issues. Eris' Perihelion is in
Libra seems to reflect the equality, fairness, getting along that
Eris seems to call for. Eris' Aphelion in Aries seems to reflect the
war, conflict, aggression, trouble that Eris is known for causing.
Eris' North Node in Taurus seems to reflect the solidarity. It can
also be the stubbornness, materialism that often causes problems in
society and creates division between people. Eris' South Node in
Scorpio seems to reflect the transformation, rebirth, but also
revenge, resentment that often connection to division of humanity and
linked to racism.

When I think of Eris, I think of taking sides, forced to decide
between two things, torn between two factions, dilemmas, "If you are
not with me, you are against me", betrayal, resentment that happens
after choosing a side, creating a bridge, narrowing the gap

Eris orbits beyond Saturn, and so it seems like it can relate to the
metaphysical. It is a kuiper belt object like Pluto, and so it can
seem to relate to intensity, transformation, and rebirth. Eris' orbit
is more unusual than Pluto for its not only it's more elliptical, but
it is tilted 44.187 degrees relative to the plane of the solar
system. Pluto's orbit is only inclined 17 degrees. That would reflect
that Eris relates to being a nonconformist as well as being
divergent.

Based on reading Zane Stein's article and his keywords as well as Roy
MacKinnon's keywords and the charts that I have looked at, I believe
that Eris has to do with stirring stuff up, controversy, ideology,
civil/equal rights matters, standing up for self/others, advocacy,
bigotry, racism, minorities, race relations, diversity, .....all
those things are connected to each other too.

It could be racial relations stuff like the racial divide,
interracial relationships, interracial marriages, interracial family
connections,and interracial parentage. It it could be the
multiracial. It could even be international relations. It could be
like tolerance/intolerance of divergence, diversity, minorities(not
necessarily race, ethnic...but even religion, sexual orientation,
etc). It's the intolerance of divergents, diversity, minorities that
lead to equal/civil rights issues.

Barack Obama is definitely a racial minority, he comes across as
divergent to many, and he seems to believe in acceptance/tolerance of
diversity by many(note:I didn't say most nor all), he comes from a
family background that is diverse. He's a civil rights lawyer. Of
course, he's viewed as being Muslim by many people(note: I didn't say
most nor all). Of course,many Muslims are frowned upon here in USA.
He also has a highly controversial minister who gets called racists
after pointing out the racism here in USA that is even confirmed by
the United Nations. Being biracial black and white,he was torn
between the white and black races like many biracial black and white
people. Even in this day and age, "the one drop rule" is still in
effect. A biracial people tend to have no choice but identify mainly
with minority race because that's how society will view them
as....especially if they are part black. With him in the presidential
race,the need to create a bridge between blacks and whites and deal
with the race divide is very obvious.

Roy, Zane, Francisco, and Phil have some very good preliminary
keywords for Eris, and they go well beyond discord. The Eris research
that I did seem to support their keywords.

Roy MacKinnon's Eris' Keywords:
Striving to achieve one's goals and refusing to capitulate to the
pressure of unjust treatment and discord from abusive authority :
with great inner conviction and single-mindedness of purpose
following a path of high attainment and enlightenment notwithstanding
adversity - alternatively refusing the call to transform with
mediocrity and underachievement as consequences: issues around power
abuse of minorities, the defenceless, the alien: networks,
multinational countries and companies, the world- wide web: piracy,
terrorism, clash of ideologies: conflict between desires of
personality and pursuit of the inner call: persecution of the
spiritually aware person who stands alone courageously acting
according to conscience: an outstanding individual ahead of the
times.

Zane Stein's Eris Keywords:
Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being
separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and
being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of
death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the
longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a
debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to
fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord;
pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and
tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or
abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a
competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is
being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal,
belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems
resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different
perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for
truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more
clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting
logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic;
identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles;
incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box;
the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming
to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's
motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race
intent.

Francesco Schiavinotto's Keywords:
Dam; Damming; Obstruction; Obliteration; To be opposite; Aversion for
the Extraneous; To obstacle the Alien; False Adaption between
Different Matters; Reciprocal Aversion; Feeling to be Invaded;
Resistance; Incommunicability; Controversial Figure; Ecological
Incompatibility; Underground Instability

It's Eris' Co-Discoverer, Michael Brown that seemed to give the clue
to Eris' meaning

"She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them
think their opinions are right and everyone else's is wrong, " Brown
said. "It really is just perfect." )
www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N38/38shorts2.html

That seems to fit with
controversy,ideology,diversity,divergence,considerate/inconsiderate
of viewpoints/opinions/beliefs/values,bigotry,terrorism, redefining
boundaries)......Honestly, I think that it not only fits with any
belief system but also even Astrology(look at how much diversity is
in Astology that involves so much disagreement that even Steven
Forrest ,who has Moon conjunct Eris, refers to the issue as Tower
Babel and stated that the idea of "One True Astrology" is a myth and
destructive). I even think that Eris might even be a co-ruler of
Astrology.

The Tower of Babel applies to the whole planet in general for there
is much diversity with much intolerance,miscommunications,and
misunderstandings.

Many Christians used the Tower of Babel story in the Bible as an
excuse for segregation,interracial marriage bans

for example:

In June 1958, two residents of Virginia, Mildred Jeter, a Negro
woman, and Richard Loving, a white man, were married in the District
of Columbia pursuant to its laws. Shortly after their marriage, the
Lovings returned to Virginia and established their marital abode in
Caroline County. At the October Term, 1958, of the Circuit Court of
Caroline County, a grand jury issued an indictment charging the
Lovings with violating Virginia's ban on interracial marriages. On
January 6, 1959, the Lovings pleaded guilty to the charge and were
sentenced to one year in jail; however, the trial judge suspended the
sentence for a period of 25 years on the condition that the Lovings
leave the State and not return to Virginia together for 25 years. He
stated in an opinion that:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red,
and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the
interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such
marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not
intend for the races to mix." http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/loving.html

Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[1], was a landmark civil rights
case in which the United States Supreme Court declared Virginia's
anti-miscegenation statute, the "Racial Integrity Act of 1924",
unconstitutional, thereby overturning Pace v. Alabama (1883) and
ending all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United
States.

In Eris' discovery chart, Moon in 10'57 Scorpio in 7th house square
Babel in 9'31 Leo in 5th which seems to fit the issues
dealing with interracial relationships as well as their offspring.
Tower of Babel seems to fit with Eris
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/Astynaz/ErisDiscoveryAstrology.gif

in my own chart:
Eris in 12'15 Aries R in 8th
conjunct Chiron in 10'32 Aries R
sextile Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini
sextile North Lunar Node in 10'29 Aquarius
trine Jupiter in 8'17 Sagittarius in 3rd
quincunx Ascendant in 13'27 Virgo
biquintile Mercury in Scorpio in 3rd - '06

South Eris Node in 5'30 Scorpio in 2nd
Sun in 5'20 Scorpio in 2nd
Saturn in 5'08 Gemini in 9th R

Raymond

posted October 25, 2008 03:16 AM         

Am I reading your tone correctly if I think that most of what you write is directed to offsprings of a white parent with some other race for a parent?

If so, then I can understand why in so many of your posts, you speak of multiracial people but I always feel excluded from your words, even if I am multi cultural. None of my parents were caucasian. None we black too. My grand parents were. My mother is mixed, my father was Malay or Indian as some called him because his complexion was dark but with that yellow undertone like mine. All were South Africans.

I might have part of these people in me but they don't have part of me. Blacks here can easily accept me better than Asians or Caucasians. Of course, the shape of my eyes and the texture and colour of my hair becomes a topic of discussion amongst blacks but it's not because I'm being treated badly. It's usually when blacks compliment or admire my hair and how I don't have to do anything to it while they have to get relaxer or weaves and what not. Other than that, blacks don't see a difference between me and them.

posted October 25, 2008 03:40 AM         

how do I define myself? As OTHER. As someone said above, until they come up with something better than that, I am other. BUT, I can get away with ticking more than one box apart from the White box.

I've dated all races. The kids are fine. It's the parents that give me grief. After the whole civil war in South Africa, I was catapulted to a school with 5 people of colour. Then I was encouraged to learn about English and European life. This was from age 12. I moved away from my rural set up to another polar life in character. Before I went to the black area 6yrs, I lived in a white suburb, left when the unrest begun. Then the rest of my childhood was spent moving from one area to another. Everywhere I went, I was seen and treated like a black person. If they knew about my grandparents, I definitely would have been treated better or worse depending on where I was, but I have chosen to keep that to myself. I don't speak about this.

posted October 25, 2008 04:20 AM         

"it applies to people of any mixture."

therefore, it doesn't exclude you

it's about mixed race people in general...not just people born with black parent and white parent.

I was trying to make a point in the beginning of my post about how some blacks get on the cases of people born from interracial black and white relationship when they say "well...many blacks are mixed too...and there are blacks that are lightskinned, they are still black)and try to pin them down as being black. That's happened to me numerous times. I remember one time it happened here,and I got insulted and accused of trying to distance myself from blacks. A lot of people like me are unfairly accused of stuff like that. What we really want is to acknowledge all of us and not just part of us. We want to acknowledge both our parents' heritage and not just one parent's heritage.

I was trying to point out difference in the experiences of an offspring of a black and white relationship.....things like when I walk with my white mother, people give us strange looks, assume that I am not related to my mother and/or or think that I am adopted...stuff like that. Being an adult with my mom, they would think that she and I are messing around with each other. Those things have happened before. As well as growing up having love for the white people in my family and not just the black people in my family. It can get complicated and downright irritating when blacks give me a hard time for being attracted and being romantically involved withwomen that are white like my mother because they seem me as betraying the black race..especially black women. That's ridiculous. A lot of blacks share those views. I have read about this stuff about Halle Berry with her being with her white boyfriend and having a child with him. She's being with a man,the race of her mother. She is not betraying the black race. When I was in the navy,I had to deal with Afrocentric blacks who didn't believe in interracial relationships, and I felt like I was invalidated. I almost got into a fight with one guy because he said that white women only get with black men for sexual reasons, and he included my mother and my father. I straight up told my chain of command,I don't want that black separatism stuff around me...I am the last person that wants to be around that stuff because of my interracial parentage. Farrakhan wannabes get on my nerves just as much as KKK wannabes.

like I said earlier in my post.
Abolutionist,ex-slave Frederick Douglass' second wife was white
his response was to the intense criticism that he got from both blacks who accused him of betraying his race and whites who strongly hated interracial relationships.
"My first wife was the color of my mother,and now my second wife is the color of my father. Frederick Douglass acknowledged all parts of him and believed that his white half from his father justified his being able to have a white wife. He believed that he can't be pinned down to one race. I read about him as a teenager,I grew up seeing racial boundaries the way he did...the idealism in breaking down racial boundaries and not pinning myself down as one race. so yeah..if somebody gives me a hard time for being with a white woman, I respond "there is nothing wrong with me being with a woman that is the color of my mother"

some people have hard time looking past the color of a person of interracial parentage to see that they resemble their white parents. I have been told more than once that I don't look nothing like my mom,and that used to hurt and made me feel like I wasn't related. When I was a kid,I'd use to wonder if I was adopted.

heck..I actually believe Obama looks more like his mom's side of the family than his dad's side of the family. I can see the past the color of his skin to see that he does share some of his white mother's features(like his eyes and how they are set) from the pictures that I have seen of him and his mother. He doesn't look all black to me.

some people even think that I am Hispanic(especially Puerto Rican),Middle Eastern,or Pacific Islander I read that many people mixed with black and white have been mistakened for those things too. People even straight up ask me "What are you?" because they are not sure what I am. Of course,many can tell that I am mixed black/white too.

I find many blacks will just see that I am black and pin me down that way.

Many black guys(mainly darkskinned blacks) have given me a hard time in the past...a matter of fact,it was mainly black guys that gave me a hard time,accusing me of being gay and calling me gay slurs when I am not even gay. I feel that one of the reasons was that I didn't act "black" or sound "black" whatever that meant. I didn't fall into any black stereotypes....except be a very fast runner.I sucked at sports, and that was because of my Dyspraxia(developmental coordination disorder). I didn't have these problems with white guys for some reason. I did get picked on by white kids when I was in special education. I was called "retard" by a lot of white kids when I was in special education for my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia. Oddly,black kids didn't call me "retard". I had a history of being called the n'word by whites, but I also had some good friendships with whites. I fought with blacks,but I also had some friendships with blacks. I got along well with Hispanics..especially when people thought I look Hispanic. My best friend in the navy was Hispanic,and he thought I was Hispanic when he first met me that he spoke to me in Spanish. hahahaha For some reason,most white women that I met thought I was Hispanic too. I guess the Portuguese from my mom's father's side is rather dominant. I think that's one of the reasons,some think that I am Arabic. After all,Portuguese and Spanish have Arab mixtures (Moors and Berbers).

my 1st house ruler(Mercury) parallels Neptune and conjuncts Sun/Neptune midpoint - hard to pin down persona also can be viewed as being "confused"...people have told me that for being mixed. but also Neptune is planet is associated with dissolution of boundaries,unity,and universal love....I believe in those things. Those things are a central part of my personality. Those are things that I believe in because of my multiethnic background.

you know what's funny.....is on my birth certificate....my mother only had her information and not my father' down because she was a teenager and my father was 13 years older than her. This was back in 1971. My mother was listed as white on my birth certificate. with my father not being listed...especially not his race, it looked like according to my birth certificate, I am white.

when I was registered in the navy, they wrote me down as White based on my birth information. hahahahaha

how is that for Neptune in Sagittarius in 3rd conjunct IC! Moon in Pisces square Neptune in Sagittarius in 3rd too
hahahaha

I don't really have any particular culture. I am definitely not Afro-centric. I am multicultural in every way.

btw...there has been a multiracial movement since the 1990's....many multiracial people have been fighting to be recognized by society as multiracial people and not to be pinned down. There are some multiracial organizations,websites,literature,etc.
The 2000 US Census was the first US Census that allowed people to mark down more than box for race. Government forms now have multiple choices for multiracial people to mark down. For a long time, it was choose only one race or other.

posted October 25, 2008 04:39 AM         

Eris' orbit
Orbital Period: 556.65 yr

posted October 25, 2008 05:16 AM         

I do take note of what you have said in the past Glaucus, about your mother and father's background. I know it can bring issues. Unless a person has these differing cultural parental lines, it can be hard to understand.

Unmoved - what an interesting life you've had/have!!! It's belonging to various 'groups' of people that would give you valuable insight into the hearts of people.

posted October 25, 2008 05:31 AM         

My Uranus is in 1st. I can testify that this placement makes me strange, but being multi cultural or multi-ethnic is more common that being a blueblood. It's in Sag. It is square venus so I can see my looks being something that makes me look different according to people's perspectives.

edit: Koi. Hair colour? That's odd.

I can't even tell if a person is Jewish. But in all honesty, I can't tell much. I didn't know about difference in race until I was much older. I don't know how they managed to achieve that. I knew that my friends looked different to each other because nothing looked the same. I saw people as I saw trees, they are different, even those with the same name, but they are trees.

then I learned. Due to that, I can't identify with any racial slur. You can call me what you like. I understand why you are calling me that but I can't take it personally. That's why I usually advise a racist person to be careful because they won't get awaywith this easily to someone who identifies with a certain comment or word. Lol.

I also find myself where a person of a certain race just starts talking badly about blacks in my presence. That is weird. You know those ramblings when someone is watching the news, those subconscious rants. Lol. White and mixed people do that a lot to me. Lol. Then, they would realise I'm in the room. Lol.

again, I shrug it off and just give a cursory warning that anyone else would make a big deal of this so...

posted October 25, 2008 07:44 AM         

What true Anglo-Saxon has jet black hair? - you know, Asian-looking hair? Not many, in a small colonised Anglosized country with an emphasis on BI-culturalism, where the people 'looked' either Anglo or "other". I don't look either Anglo or ethnic!!! That makes it hard for folk in my hometown to know who they are talking to. If I'm not Anglo, what the hell am I????

Anglo-Saxon people in my hometown in the 60s, 70s and 80's just did not have black hair!!! And I did not look like the local ethnic group. What the hell was I???

I'm so glad the nineties have a push into the global community!!!

Well, I guess it depends on which country you live in, but it's really important to have a global community feel to it - otherwise what's the point in anything?

posted October 25, 2008 08:34 AM         

I know that racism is not what a person is. It is conditioning. You learn being racist and this tells me that it can be unlearned. That's all. I know a lot of racist, unfortunately. For some reason, they don't have a problem with me. I sometimes try to show them that they can't hate a certain race if they like me, and I always get the same reply, "you're different"

oh really?

posted October 25, 2008 12:27 PM         

The reason some blacks took on the 1 drop rule was to embrace the bi-racial children as belonging somewhere - as if to say "you are still our children - regardless". Its a legacy of the times of slavery...a racist rule created by whites to deny bi-racial peoples legitimacy as part white & to treat them as "impure", subsequently taken up by blacks to embrace all people with black blood as belonging.

You have to understand that it was important for black people to do this post slavery due to the African diaspora – the dispersal of Africans & their descendants in the states. Their African names were taken from them, as was their religion, customs & culture all stolen by slavery - It was necessary to establish a new base where all people who had any amount of African blood were considered to be black. To try & recreate what was destroyed & cruelly stolen.

Since the civil rights movement, the 1 drop rule has been dropped by both blacks & whites as bi-racial people are recognised & legitimised as being the offspring of both blacks & whites, quite right too!

Glaucus - does the 1 drop rule still apply in the USA? Or is it an opinion held by individuals? I thought it was abolished in the 60's? (perhaps I'm wrong?)

You know what, I don't give a flying-f*ck if an individual questions my ethnicity, I’m so comfortable & celebrate myself as an African woman, that I find it humorous if anyone uses my ethnicity as something derogatory. More fool them!

I suffered as a child for being too black, actually for being an African child. My nose was too broad & my lips were too big, my name was ridiculed because it was African (I lived in an area where it was predominately West Indian & white). Even at that young age I fought back. I wont say what I said but It was very advanced & cutting for someone of my age. Things have changed since then. Being African is no longer a thing of ridicule, in fact a lot of people of black origin recognise & acknowledge their African ancestry.

My point is so long as the 1 drop rule is an opinion that some people hold (& no longer legally binding?), IMHO one has a choice to “sh*t or get off the pot.” If things are so bad - campaign, take a stand, fight back or else live with it.

If one is comfortable in the knowledge that they're part white, black, Asian or any other mix and embrace all sides of their heritage, why should they care what "Joe bloggs" thinks?

I believe when you truly embrace who you are peoples ignorant opinions will slide off you like water to Teflon.

posted October 25, 2008 12:48 PM         

let's just put it this way. Just because there is no slavery,Jim Crow laws,nor interracial bans here, doesn't mean that racism is not a problem here in USA. Just like there is de facto segregation here even though there are no segregation laws.

the one drop rule is an unofficial rule here in that is still a regular part of society.

I already pointed out that there has been a multiracial movement since the 1990's. It was until 2000, that there started to be government forms that allow you to pick more than on racial category.

many people....a lot of people pin down people mixed with black as black.

until June 12, 1967 Loving vs. Virginia Supreme Court ruling, there were antimiscegenation laws that kept people w/ black ancestry from being with white people

even after that, many mixed people w/ black were often defined as being black by both blacks and whites. In society, mixed people w/ black are viewed just as black...especially when black seems more dominant. They don't look at mixed person w/ black and see that they are part white or another background,they tend to only focus on the black.

just look at how Obama is viewed, many people refer to him as Black,African American even though he's half white on his mother's side. He has a half sister that is not even part black but she's half white and half asian. He even talked about how he is defined by how society sees him. Many mixed person w/ black are conditioned to identify as black because that's how society will see them. Halle Berry has even said that's how her white mother conditioned her to be. When they see a person w/ black, they don't see a person who has a white parent. They see a person that is black. I know blacks that give offsrping of interracial parents a hard time, and tell them that many blacks are mixed any way through masters raping their slaves, and so that there are blacks there are lightskinned and that they consider themselves as black. It's not the same as a person who has a white parent and a black parent. I explained why in my post.

Of course,the one drop rule doesn't have any relevance
there is no slavery,no Jim Crow Laws nor antimiscegenation laws. Therefore, it makes no sense for many Americans to observe the one drop rule.

but it's an unofficial rule that many people go by...especially blacks who don't want mixed people w/ black to identify with being more than just black.

it's very complicated.

even NAACP and other black civil rights groups urged mixed people w/ black to mark down only black on 2000 US Census form that allowed mixed people to mark down on one race. That was the first US Census to allow mixed people to do that. Many blacks believed that if mixed people identified as mixed and not just black, then they would be lowering political numbers of blacks. They don't want mixed people w/ black to identify with all their heritage. Many black civil rights groups don't acknowledge multiracial people. They only see them as being black.

there always been forms that you are only allowed to pick only one race or other. Even online has the same problem including even sites like myspace. I have to mark down other for race on myspace because there are no multiple box choice options....at least put in a multiracial category box.

I explained in depth about what it's like to be a mixed person w/ black, and many people mixed w/ black in USA go through that.

there is so many sociological articles about the multiracial and the one drop rule. Even the sites talk about it.

but any ways...since the 1990's,there have been a multiracial movement

any ways....you can see how being a multiracial person in USA can be very complicated and even can be challenging and full of conflict.

Barack Obama knows from personal experience,and he writes about it in his book, DREAMS OF MY FATHER.

here is some information about the one drop rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/One-drop_rule#Many_Americans_reject_the_one_drop_rule http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Constitution_Issues/one_drop_rule.htm http://www.articlepros.com/History/American/article-58544.html http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/04/13/barack-obama-and-the-one-drop-rule/ http://www.afn.org/~dks/race/wright.html http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08129/879988-176.stm http://mulattonationtimes.tripod.com/articles/OneDrop.htm

posted October 25, 2008 01:32 PM         

whether obama wins or not the violence is probably going to surface but this is a chironic transit for him as well, hovering around his ASC this whole time and not progressing past it till after the election. and chiron heals by exposing your wounds.

so expect a lot of resistance but this election is a major healing point for this issue in this country. and pray that the man who took it on survives and thrives...

posted October 25, 2008 03:31 PM         

I agree with you 100 percent.

Barack has a strong Eris influence

he has Sun trine Eris with 2'03 orb and Sun contraparallel Eris with 22 minutes of arc. Therefore, he has a Sun-Eris bilevel - a powerful Eris influence.

He also has Eris sesquiquadrate his chart ruler,Uranus with 13 minutes of arc.

Diversity is a major theme in his life. His running for president has brought about diversity issues here in USA. There is obvious discord in our country as well as ideological conflicts. But there has also been bridging being made as many whites are voting for him. After his economic crisis,many whites are forgetting about the color of his skin and focusing more on the color of money instead. They are disregarding their racism and thinking more about their own best interests.

Will this all hold out
well..only the Election Results can answer that.

I also pointed about the minor grand trine of Venus in 20'09 Sagittarius,Neptune in 21'28 Aquarius,and Eris in 21'01 Aries

I checked out Sabian Symbol for 21'01 Aries

ARIES 22
THE GATE OPENS TO THE GARDEN OF ALL FULFILLED DESIRES

Keywords: Craving Happiness. Gardens and their treasures. Trelises and flowing plants. Pathways to bliss. Gates and doors. Unlocking and opening gates and doors. Analyzing your heart's desires. The grass being greener on the other side. Rewards and treasures waiting. The allure of somewhere else. Initiations. Passages to a better life. Acquiring property. Sexual fulfillment. Opening up to life's possibilities and rewards.

The Caution: Feeling or being shut out. Denying yourself the right to just rewards. "Wild goose chases." Being afraid of losing everything. Having everything, but wanting more. Things not being as real as you imagined. Feeling unhinged. Not having materials to make dreams come true. Issues of possession that separate. Your cup being half empty or half full.

I also checked the Venus/Eris midpoint and the Neptune/Eris midpoint to look at more clues to ideological,diversity matters that the minor grand trine of Venus,Neptune,Eris could indicate. Venus trine Eris and Neptune sextile Eris.

Venus/Eris midpoint in 20'35 Aquarius

AQUARIUS 21
A WOMAN DISAPPOINTED AND DISILLUSIONED,COURAGEOUSLY FACING A SEEMINGLY EMPTY LIFE

Keywords: Breaking through illusions. Facing stark reality with hope. Loneliness and depression overcome. Positive outlooks. Counting one's blessings. Looking toward the future. Having to battle through relationship losses while maintaining a sense of self and purpose. Turning points reached. Having a belief in miracles. Choosing joy.

The Caution: Wallowing in failure. Not seeing the joy and beauty of one's life. Accepting defeat. Feeling like all is lost. Bitterness. Wailing one's self off from others. Not trusting people. Finding nothing to be happy about. Feeling deserted and alone. Not letting go of the past. Injuries. Infertility. Incurable "diseases." Unrequited love. The loss of a partner. Staring into space. Being a sad,old person.

Neptune in 21'14 Pisces

PISCES 22
A PROPHET BRINGING DOWN THE NEW LAW FROM THE MOUNTAIN

Keywords: Revelations and channeling of new information. Truths being revealed. Thoughts,ideas,guidelines. The Ten Commandments. Laying down the law. New resolutions. New pathways of living. Social justice messages. The Koran. The Torah. The Bible. Finding records. People of the book. The Ark of the Covenant. Newly codified laws. Amendments. The Testaments. Avatars and guides. Moses. Mt. Sinai. Legislation. Laws enacted.

The Caution: Being told what to do. Believing that one has all the answers. Disregarding the religious ways of the past. Rules set in stone. The statement "this is what's going to happen." Rigid application of dogmatic moral codes.