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Author Topic:   Mentally Ill Mothers
Xena
Knowflake

Posts: 542
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2006

posted November 03, 2008 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xena     Edit/Delete Message
I (Aries, Pisces Moon) have been through a really tough time over the last couple of years, and may have nowhere to live at the end of this month. My mother (Sag, Taurus Moon) originally invited me to come back and live with her, making tons of promises, but 2 days after we agreed this, started behaving in a really peculiar manner. She lives alone in a 4-bedroom house which my dad (Aries, Sag Moon) pays for, and hasn't worked for the past 45 years. (I have been running myself ragged trying to get my career going for years, and am finding it even more difficult at present with the credit crisis; because of having been self-employed it is difficult to get jobs to supplement my income. She can't really understand the competition for jobs in this day and age, and says, "oh, why can't you get a job on (top fashion magazine?". Oh YEAH! Like, no-one else wants to work for them!).
Basically, she doesn't want to share her house with anyone, as she didn't when my father and I were living there, and it seems that the personality traits that were prevalent during my childhood haven't gone away; they simply haven't been expressed for a long while, since she has no-one around her to express them to.

She does seem to hate me intrinsically (even though I thought lately we got on well - I might have known it was too good to be true - I just can't trust her) and I think that she's one of those people who looks at people as scapegoats for her unexpressed abusive emotions if she feels they are dependent on her in any way - she has a very Fixed chart that I feel underlines this. If I moved back I would definetely be a scapegoat, because somehow I represent something that is challenging to her at the deepest level. I don't know why this is, although I do know (and have known since I was 5 years old) that she cannot handle a simple difference of opinion (however civilized), or a debate, easily without it degenerating into some kind of conflict, so it's likely that her emotional intelligence may be low. She is very controlling and oppressive and adores animals (as she has the power of absolute control over them and they do not have the words to disagree with her, so are therefore "better" than humans). I know that if I were to move back with her I would feel suffocated; it's just the principle of not wanting to share her more than adequate resources that gets to me - the unadulterated greed and disregard for other people. It's the principle that she seems to think she can behave however she likes and people will still come back to her.

When I was growing up she used to say things to me like "You need me. I don't need you" (Okay. I was hardly a thief or an arsonist, for Christ's sake!); another time she said "I'd rather have animals than have you" and when I said at 16 that I was desperate for a boyfriend, she said "If you want sex so much, you'll have to become a wh*re". I was saying to her today that my situation was not an easy one and was not being made easier as I was receiving no help, and she said cheerfully, "oh well, life is tough".

I am sick of the lack of genuinely useful or heartfelt support. I have mulled and mulled her behaviour over and I have come to the conclusion that she is actually mentally ill, and that seems to make this whole situation easier for me to cope with. The trouble is that because she's pretty my dad (divorced from her) has always held a candle for her, and he either denies there is anything wrong or dismisses what I say with the explanation that "she's always been the same" (he is easily impressed with cute looks, no matter how nasty the personality underneath may be). Unfortunately I think she has often encouraged him to behave in a similar way to her - she has continually badmouthed us to each other in order to keep us apart, since she is jealous of our good relationship.

Her behaviour has attracted concern from both sides of our family, because she never ever goes to see any of them (makes excuses not to - instead spends long hours on long-distance phone calls - they also usually phone her, she does not phone them).

I have never ever come across anyone as unwilling to give of herself or interact with anyone, or be as deliberately petulant and childish as my mother. People are appalled when I tell them about her, but, as I said, she has very obvious intrinsic mental illness. Perhaps unsurprisingly, she also has no friends, outside her family circle (she chats with my aunt perhaps weekly, and that's it). She also has a very precisely similar routine each day. She spends a lot of time in bed, and has had long-term anorexia and protracted depression in the past. I can't get over the sense of entitlement she has to a 4-bedroom house and the like - she has not done anything towards it and has not been supportive of my father over the years in any way (whilst expecting him to provide everything). One part of me wants to say "go to hell, I'm never speaking to you again" and the other half wants to (if I can't find a place to live) bring all my stuff home, dump it in her garage and wilfully squat in a tepee on her front lawn.

I don't understand how people like her manage to wangle themselves maintenance from quite simply doing nothing (I can't understand what satisfaction they get from doing nothing - it can't be good for their pride), and being as nasty as possible, whereas I have been running around trying to get the show on the road regarding my career in one way or another, and have had zero support from various key people around me (I have had one hell of a lot to deal with this year, and over the past couple of months experienced an acute nervous breakdown - although it could be that I am gradually on the up now). I am trying my hardest and am exhausted.

I was talking about this whole situation with a Scorp friend (Aqua/Pisces Moon) the other day (who prayed for me - I can't tell you how moved I was by someone praying for me) and she reckons the best thing to do is simply not to communicate with people that are like this. I've tried it before with my mother, but I got ill from the repressed anger, and attracted people that were similar in her place; I think the best way forward this time round is to only meet up or converse when it's absolutely necessary, because she riles me so much.

However, I think that my mother is genuinely incapable of giving real love as a mother should. She claims that she had a bad time growing up herself and seems to want to make it as bad for me as it was for her (actually, in retrospect, I think her own mother (Cancer, Pisces moon) was much more caring than she was, and had to cope with a war besides). I think it's worth while to recognize when a parent does have very obvious mental health problems, because it absolves us from thinking we are able to do anything about it, because we can't, and we can't make the wish that they were better real. We can, however, make things more comfortable and acceptable for ourselves. I'd like to know what you think.

Also, has anyone specifically had problems with Sag parents (I'm thinking of the Beethoven/Britney syndrome here - great people in their field, I'm sure, and well-loved by public, but lousy for offspring/adopted offspring's mental health outlook, and prone to riding roughshod over others' emotions without provocation and as though that were their right)?

I am really not keen on my parents' generation (the "Beatles" generation). I feel as though there is something wrong with them generally. Anyone else feel the same way?

Love,

Xena

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scrappydog
Knowflake

Posts: 56
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2008

posted November 03, 2008 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scrappydog     Edit/Delete Message
She sounds just like my older sister who I consider a borderline sociopath! She is a Leo, Scorpio moon, Virgo rising. But more importantly, what are some major aspects in your mother's chart?

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scrappydog
Knowflake

Posts: 56
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2008

posted November 03, 2008 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scrappydog     Edit/Delete Message
She sounds just like my older sister who I consider a borderline sociopath! She is a Leo, Scorpio moon, Virgo rising. But more importantly, what are some major aspects in your mother's chart?

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Xena
Knowflake

Posts: 542
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2006

posted November 03, 2008 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xena     Edit/Delete Message
People have commented in the past that her chart, and our composite charts, show nothing particularly uncomfortable or extraordinary or problematic. However - practice tells a different story. My mother has a lot of outer planets in Taurus (retrograde). Also Leo rising, Scorp Mars and Venus - so a lot of Fixed. I often find a T-square in Fixed signs concerns me somewhat as those individuals have control issues - they are the "dictators" of the planet. Mind you, even though they bully others into looking after them in one way or another, they usually never achieve anything much in life. I can count a number of people that I know or knew amongst them: my mother, my ex-husband, a recent boyfriend, and someone who is kinda posing as a "friend" (although he has about 5 planets in Leo and is actually quite successful).

My energies are mainly Mutable (Virgo/Pisces/Gemini) and I occasionally curse myself for being a shape-changer and over-willing to please. I overcompensate because I just want to be liked and I am dependent on people's approval (which, curiously, these people are not - they are not even outstandingly talented, or if so, only in one area).

The more I read, the more it does seem that my mother has BPD. My father threatened to have her committed but never did, and I don't know why this was - her mental illness was almost always denied to me, as if he couldn't face the fact that he'd made the choice of wife that he had. I think he was addicted to her in some way, he still visits her now, and she keeps saying she knew he would always come back to her - he seems to be hypnotized by her (his Mars/Venus are in Taurus, directly opposite hers in Scorpio). I actually wonder whether the dependency on him that she acts out, the take, take, take all the time, is a deliberate means of keeping him near her until the bitter end and never letting go, that she needs the contact with him so badly that she'll never give up the vampirism as long as they're both alive? People say he must be a saint - well, I know he's not that but most people who are not masochistic or had some modicum of self-respect would NOT put up with her behaviour. He just refuses to believe she's done anything wrong as a parent, and tells me he thinks she was a "good mother". Hmmm, naivete of Aries/Taurus male springs to mind - gotta love them, they always see the best in people - easily fooled by a pretty face

People who fall into the commonsense category, of course, who have sized her up, are to her "nasty" or "stupid" people, and deemed worthy of casting out. - Well - seems there's nothing left to do but let her play her games by herself!

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007

posted November 03, 2008 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
As i was reading it felt like you were describing my mum!

Ever since i was very young my mum used to throw me out in front of the door even at 6 -7 yrs of age and would punish me by lockin me out and i would cry and scream for her to let me back in.

When i grew up my mum got worse she would use her power over me and i would hate her for it. She used to remind me everyday how I NEED HER AND SHE DOESNT NEED ME! and for years she messed with my head, iw ould move out of home get a beautiful house and she would com crying saying she didnt want to live without me and would pack my stuff and bring me back home. I made this mistake 17 times!!!!!

Recently pluto went over my IC and opposed my moon, nothing but turmoil happened but one night i went into this underground gay club for men with my brothers friends and this couple came in who thought it was a swingers club and i ended up talking to them that night and telling them my life story about my mum. It turns out the girls husband also had the same problem with his mum and explained to me how it effected him and his sister.

They taught me that when i stop doing things for my mum or to impress my mum i will succeed in life and move on, nothing can change them and im 25 and she still hasnt changed..

I used to get a job to impress my mum so she can be proud of me and when she used to say to me YOU CANT EVEN KEEP A JOB ANYWAYS OR YOUR STILL NOTHING i used to get turned off my job and didnt care about working. I was never good enough!

So i took that guys and girls advise and i left the country to heal myself. 7 months later i came back and i was ready to fight my mum and win this so called battle between us. Maybe we were worse than you because my mum even got me locked up for 3 days 3 days and i never forgave her and i hate my mum i always thought she was possessed by the devil.

On the 14th feb i lost my job at the bank i work for and on the 15th of feb my mum kicked me out of home for not giving her 20 dollars to get drugs.

3 months i stayed EVERYWHERE and i cried everyday till i found a house and swore i would never EVER go back to my mums house again because she will never change and i wont be doing things for ME.

During all this i had pluto going over my IC like i mentioned but when i got my home jupiter was in my 4th house. I now have a very good job at hsbc bank and i have a beautiful house that i couldnt have even dreamed of 1 year ago when i was sitting in a cell because my mum called the cops on me when i didnt wanna pack my stuff and leave. She would kick me out and use my computer and internet while i was living out of my car majority of the time with the few items of clothing i was allowed to take before the cops would escort me out. I spent my life like this and THEY NEVER CHANGE. I always felt sorry for her but i always lost in the end because she had nothign to lose.

Its been 7 months my mum comes afround we still argue but i have my own home and i can tell her to F*** off.


By the way my mum is cancer rising and a gemini sun with moon in aries.

My sun is in her first house her moon is in my 7th and our sun and moon is exactly conjunct.

------------------
Sun.. Cancer

Moon.. Gemini

Mars.. Cancer

Mercury.. Cancer

Venus.. Leo

Ascendant....... Virgo

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007

posted November 03, 2008 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
I was even raised believing my dad never loved me and he abandoned us and that she was the best thing in my life. My dad proved her wrong last year in fact if i was my dad i wouldve left and ranaway too because evn i did that and shes my mother!

I had my mum try and burn my legs when i was about 8. She gambled out house away and all of my savings. i am so angry right now i really hate mums that do this. I have a cat i have raised for 7 years and i have never even disrespected my cat and even yelled at her (as stupid as it sounds)because shes my responsibility and im her carer how can i be her enemy? how could i even raise my voice and hurt her feelings? we have a life long relationship. I know i would never be like my mum when i have children.

------------------
Sun.. Cancer

Moon.. Gemini

Mars.. Cancer

Mercury.. Cancer

Venus.. Leo

Ascendant....... Virgo

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koiflower
Knowflake

Posts: 1258
From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted November 04, 2008 05:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message

My heart goes out to you both Xena and belgz, for going through emotional abuse from a parent. As life goes on, I seem to believe more that all the hurts sustained as a child never fully go away. But only that one comes to 'manage' the pain somehow. Xena, you have described your situation in depth. You are hurting from your recent situation becoming harder, and also from the hurting that began for you as a child. Many people have supportive, loving parents. But to not have one, is something that can leave a soul feeling empty and sad.

As I was reading your post, I wondered if your mother had something like Aspergers Syndrome, which is not an illness, but an intellectual impairment. Her not working for 45 years in employment may be another indicator that she does not have the social skills to be around other people - this fits an Asperger's profile. However, you also mentioned BPD, which is feasible, too. I admire the way you are able to reflect on your mother. You are obviously switched on with matters such as emotional intelligence, observing behaviours which are difficult, not blaming yourself and sizing up the situation in a holistic manner.

You must feel grief at different levels, ranging from the accumulation of years of her emotional/psychological abuse/neglect to developing new realisations of your mum's personality profile. In other words, coming to terms with how your mum is. This has not helped everything coming down on you like a ton of bricks this year. This is the time when positive parents can help their adult children get through tough times. But your mum is not there and that's the tough bit.

Your advantage in this situation is that you realise she has some disorder, and are coming to painful terms that she is not capable to reaching out to you. You have the social skills and intellect to find the next step for yourself. It is obvious you are good at summing up situations.

You mention the "Beatle's Generation". You may be from the X generation, which has been known to annoyed at the easy lifestyle the Baby Boomers had during the 60's, 70's and 80's with jobs, free education, no real economic hardship. Gen X (thirties and early 40's) people tend to have a more cynical, untrusting approach to life, because challenges have been slighty harder for them in terms of financial security, the threat of nuclear war (as children), Wall Street Crash, User-Pays system with goods and services, greater taxation laws. Many Baby Boomers do not understand the challenges their children have had to face.

If you could, would you live with her if it meant easing the financial burden and putting up with her behaviour?

Are you able to come to terms that this is not the direction to move, and work on other options? (Shared apartment, etc).

I hope you have good friends that you can turn to for emotional support. You have a mature intelligent attitude. Look after that child inside you, stay warm and loving, and when you come up with a plan, come back and let us know how you're doing! That goes for you too, belgz!

koiflower xox

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koiflower
Knowflake

Posts: 1258
From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted November 04, 2008 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message

The follwing link from a fellow Knowflake is very interesting:
http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

Those behaviours seem more like a mental illness rather than a disorder. With mental illnesses, there can be medication and counselling. With disorders, medication and counselling are just one strategy to use to cope with seeing the world in a different way.

Hang in there, and surround yourself with good people xoxox

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 719
From: sydney
Registered: Feb 2007

posted November 04, 2008 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
i think its power struggles and a strong need to be needed by someone who may well prove to be independant.

Thats what i think my mums issues are and she has a weak personality but luckily im very much like my dad in every way and i have his strong personality.

------------------
Sun.. Cancer

Moon.. Gemini

Mars.. Cancer

Mercury.. Cancer

Venus.. Leo

Ascendant....... Virgo

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nattie33
Knowflake

Posts: 731
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted November 04, 2008 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nattie33     Edit/Delete Message
I had this with my mother..Telling me when i was very young all i have to do is feed you and give you a place to live there is no law saying i have to love you..locking me out of the house when i was a young as 6 years old.. it became psysical also she would grab me and really have a time with herself. never in front of my father
One day i came home from school and she was ranting and raving she was going to kill herself "A Good Idea" But never managed to hurt herself..So much more went on.. But one of the worst was in public she was a different person.. And i had to suffer from hearing what a wonderful mother she was.. There is a special place in Hell waiting to warm her up..

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sunshine_lion
Knowflake

Posts: 919
From: ann arbor mi
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 04, 2008 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
I think letting her live with you would be a mistake. My mother is crazy and POISON and there is no way I could have her in my home. The stress and abusive abrasive talk would be too much to bear. My home atmosphere has to be peaceful and you deserve that too. Don't accept her pile of guilt. I just don't want to see anyone miserable, life is so short.

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Xena
Knowflake

Posts: 542
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2006

posted November 06, 2008 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xena     Edit/Delete Message
You all have my sympathy - mentally ill mothers are more common than is generally appreciated or admitted.

The locking out of the apartment I had too - when I was 12 and in my underwear, because of a blazing row. I was so embarrassed when someone came up the stairs and asked what on earth was going on, I was crying my eyes out and told them to go away. From then on, my mother threatened to throw me out of the house on a regular basis (although she was always locking my father out as well).

I think my mother has a variety of mental illnesses...they seem to overlap. I don't think she has Asperger's, I just don't think she likes *people* - prob a Sag trait - but several people have commented before on the fact that her accent when speaking English is very strong, for someone who has lived in the country for 45 years, and that that is a sure sign of someone who doesn't socialize. Actually she is pretty horrendous to everyone with whom she socializes, and I DO mean absolutely everyone, even the calmer types - and I think she knows her inflexible attitude winds people up, I can't believe she's sufficiently stupid not to (although she is spectacularly stupid in other ways).
I don't think she's so much of an Asperger's as an OCD-type personality, her interests and focus are much too scattered for Asperger's. I think she's actually a more or less fully functioning human being, just a rather lazy and nasty one. The narcissistic personality description fits her to a tee - whenever I achieve something, she says: "Didn't I (emphasis on I) do well?"

If I can't find a place to live I will park my *stuff* at hers and go travelling. That way we won't get under each other's feet, because the very, very last thing I want to do is to wind up living with her, and I have achieved most of what I want to so far in my life. She is forever telling me what I *should* do (even though I am 34, and even though she would do none of this herself), and I am sick of people like her telling me what to do.

Koiflower, it's interesting what you say about the Beatles generation - I'm not sure they had as much from a monetary point of view. My mother was bombed out in WWII although she was only a child then and saw it as a bit of a game when they all had to go into the cellar during air raids - they lost everything and eventually ended up living in a small flat and very cramped conditions. The reason she came over here was to try and escape that - although the quality of living in Germany at the time was miles better than England. I wouldn't say my parents always had huge amounts of money, and in some ways were casualties of over-lending - but I think what has always annoyed me about their generation is a sort of arrogance and selfishness and buying things for the sake of it - the "have, have, have" mentality. My mother screamed at me once that (her family) had nothing after the war and when she was growing up and I had so much more materially and she didn't know why I was unhappy (because YOU, Mother, are such an absolute ****, my dear) - she and my father used to buy things in bulk and waste a lot of stuff (odd way their deprivation complex is playing itself out) and I really hated their greed - I have to make do with a lot less. This monetary profligacy is very typical of their generation, and I also think the Sixties had adverse effects on morality and standards in general - the levels of sophistication went way down, right across the board. Many people of that generation say they can't understand why the job competition is so fierce - well, it's because of all the manual jobs being done away with, and more women entering the workplace, so that's why you have all those *non-jobs*.

When I get a job I almost loathe telling her about it, because, no matter how large or small it is, she always refers to it as a "little job", to me and to other people, and I think that she really must hate me, or why would she want to diminish me in that way? Why did she have a child in the first place? (Why do all these crazy mothers have children in the first place? They give mothers a bad name!)

No, she is definetely ill, but ill or not, I hope karma catches her one day...it already did with her marriage, but I hope that one day she gets thoroughly broken to the point of no return, because she has made no attempt to be a genuinely decent human being. She always says she doesn't know what she's going to do when my dad dies (as he provides for her and pays her mortgage). She's occasionally hinted that I should come and live with her then, but - HEY! she can't just switch me on and off like a lightbulb! - and I don't actually want to help her, partly because I'm not in the position to, but partly because she hasn't helped me at crucial times of my life (actually, she has been no help whatsoever, more of a hindrance than a help).

Yup, I hate her all right, and she is gonna be one lonely old woman...

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