posted February 12, 2010 05:51 AM         

My best guy friend is living with a girl. it's supposed to be a roomate situation and she is also his employer. Something has gone very wrong..very.

She's developed an obsessive love for him but, which he told her in front of me, that he does not reciprocate.
Doesnt matter.
She reads his phone, follows him when he's out, texts time after time when he is gone. She's cut him off from everyone. The other evening, he and I were on myspace, and she walked in and saw him on the computer and kicked him off it. We were on for under 5 minutes, she's that on top of his actions!

He sends me texts when she isnt in the room ~that he isnt even allowed outside. If he says he wants fresh air, she says, "fine, I'll join you. My friend seems so down, and ready to do something, WHAT, I don't know.

Here's the data, its late here, and I need to sleep, if someone wouldnt mind looking it up for me that would be awesome, if not, I'll post charts tomorrow. Thanks in advance Gypsee.

Rck
Oct. 31, 1981
8:31 pm
Hampton VA

NH
Jan. 27, 1960
noon?
Dayton, Ohio.

posted February 12, 2010 03:38 PM         

In the March 1996 issue of Harper's, there's a short reading on limerence, a term that stands (vaguely) for "romantic love". (Why this is vague will be apparent soon.) Anyway, here's a short message from Mark Israel, the keeper of the alt.usage.english news group.

This message consists of excerpts from Dorothy Tennov's book Love and Limerence (Stein and Day, 1979).

Tennov was a professor of psychology at the University of Bridgeport, Connecticut. (She's now retired.) Circa 1977 she coined the noun "limerence" and the adjective "limerent'' to describe a particular state of mind. ("Limerent" is also a noun, meaning "limerent person." The coinages are arbitrary; there is no specific etymology. The words have subsequently been used in several other books, but haven't made it into the dictionaries.)

Limerence is what is sometimes referred to as "being in love" with someone, as opposed to "loving" someone. Or sometimes it's called "romantic love" or "passionate love". But that's not an adequate definition, because nonlimerents also use these terms to describe their own feelings.

Limerence is also sometimes called "infatuation". But "infatuation" has implications of immaturity, and of extrapolating from insufficient information, that Tennov didn't want.

--Symptoms of Limerence

Limerence has certain basic components:

* Intrusive thinking about the object of your passionate desire (the limerent object or LO-will be used throughout article-), who is a possible sexual partner.

* Acute longing for reciprocation.

* Dependency of mood on LO's actions or, more accurately, your interpretation of LO's actions with respect to the probability of reciprocation.

* Inability to react limerently to more than one person at a time (exceptions occur when limerence is at low ebb -- early on or in the last fading).

* Some fleeting and transient relief from unrequited limerent passion through vivid imagination of action by LO that means reciprocation.

* Fear of rejection and sometimes incapacitating but always unsettling shyness in LO's presence, especially in the beginning and whenever uncertainty strikes.

* Intensification through adversity (at least, up to a point).

* Acute sensitivity to any act or thought or condition that can be interpreted favorably, and extraordinary ability to devise or invent "reasonable" explanations for why the neutrality that the disinterested observer might see is in fact a sign of hidden passion in the LO.

* An aching of the "heart" (a region in the center front of the chest) when uncertainty is strong.

* Buoyancy (a feeling of walking on air) when reciprocation seems evident.

* A general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background.

* A remarkable ability to emphasize what is truly admirable in LO and to avoid dwelling on the negative, even to respond with a compassion for the negative and render it, emotionally if not perceptually, into another positive attribute.

--Nonlimerence

"Nonlimerent refers to a person who is not limerent at the time. Both the limerent and nonlimerent states tend to be sustained. The most frequently encountered patterns were limerents who had always been in love with someone or wanting love, since early age, and non-limerents who simply could not remember being any other way.'' But, the same person who is limerent may someday become nonlimerent ... and vice versa.

"The feelings you as nonlimerent may have about another person may include sexual attraction, friendship, and affection, without the compulsive and intrusive fantasizing or the exclusivity. You may even be jealous, but the jealousy, if it occurs, is more like the jealousy you might experience if a co-worker were selected for an advancement .... "

"The nonlimerent person who is fond of, affectionate toward, and sexually attracted to you but who does not understand what you [a limerent] want therefore plays the game ingenuously and without artifice, because it is not a game at all.''

--Distinction between "limerence" and "love"

" 'Love', in most of its meanings, involves concern for the other person's welfare and feelings." Although limerents also have such concern, nonlimerent affection and fondness have no 'objective'; they simply exist as feelings in which you are disposed toward actions to which the recipient might or might not respond. In contrast, limerence demands return.

"Your feeling for your LO is inordinatly relative to that person's actual value in your life (apart, of course, from the value as LO) ... which is why we distinguish love from limerence, this `love' from other loves."

"Sexual jealousy and limerent jealousy are not identical. It is not so much with whom you sleep but whether you return the feelings that matter to the limerent. But the limerent exclusivity is an alien thing to the nonlimerent mind.''

--Cessation of Limerence

"Limerence for a particular LO does cease under one of the following conditions: consummation -- in which the bliss of reciprocation is either blended into a lasting love or replaced by less positive feelings; starvation -- in which even limerent sensitivity to signs of hope is useless against the onslaught of evidence that LO does not return the limerence; transformation -- in which limerence is transferred to a new LO."

Although some limerents are ashamed of feeling limerent and want to stop, in many others "an aspect of limerence is the desire for limerence. Only when recovery is complete do people appear capable of rejecting limerence as one of their most urgent personal goals."

--Judgement of Limerence

Since limerence is "an involuntary reaction", it is "as illogical to favor (or not to favor) limerence as it is to favor (or not favor) eating, elimination, or sneezing! Limerence is not the product of human decision: It is something that happens to us.''
_______________________________________________

Limerence -- Frequently Asked Questions

Q. What is the most common mistake people make about limerence?

A. Spelling it with an "a''. :-)

Q. I've read the above list of symptoms, but I still don't know whether I'm limerent or not. What should I do?

A. Forget about it for now! You just haven't had any experiences yet where the limerent/nonlimerent dichotomy is important.

Q. Why do you insist on using the word?

A. Because it's helping people.

Shortly after I joined the Net in 1986, a man in his 60s posted an article saying his SO had told him she "loved" him, but wasn't "in love with" him. He couldn't understand any distinction between loving and being in love. Several people posted their own ideas, all of which completely missed the mark. I, having read Tennov's book, posted the limerence symptomatology. The original poster responded saying, "Yes, this turns out to be what my SO means in this case. Thanks!"

Since then, many people have e-mailed to thank me for throwing light on what was previously a puzzle to them.

Q. Isn't "limerence" just a euphemism for "infatuation"?

A. No. All infatuation is limerence, but not all limerence is infatuation. If you're limerent about a spouse of ten years, I wouldn't call that "infatuation". (Of course, it's unlikely that you'd have been limerent about her constantly for the entire ten years -- limerence waxes and wanes.)

I would define "infatuation" as "limerence that you feel for someone with whom you have insufficient personal acquaintance to evaluate rationally as a potential SO". (Wow, I just defined one word that's in my dictionary in terms of two that aren't!)

Here's another definition: "The literal meaning of infatuation is 'to be made foolish of fatuous, to be deprived of sound judgement.' In the context of relationships, infatuation means an intense attraction to another arising from our focusing on one or two aspects of the other as if those aspects represented the whole. I see a beautiful face, for example, and assume it is the image of a beautiful soul. I see how kindly this person treats me and assume we share significant affinities. I discover we share important values in one area and expand this area to include the whole sphere of life." (Nathaniel Branden)

If you are limerent about someone, but

* have a realistic notion of what that person is like, and
* have a realistic notion of what a relationship is like,

then you are not infatuated.

Q. Can "nonlimerent" really be used to describe a type of person?

A. You bet! One of my correspondents told me: "Didn't you say in one response to me that you suspected I'd never experienced limerence? If so, you're quite right, and with luck I never will." There are lots of people like that.

Q. I am often limerent, but then, in relationships where I am the LO, I am decidedly nonlimerent. Would that make me both at the same time?

A. You can be a limerent in general (i.e. "prone to limerence") while being nonlimerent in the context of a particular relationship. The context usually makes clear what is meant. See Tennov's comments above on nonlimerence.

Q. Doesn't it dissipate the meaning of "limerence" to apply it to anything but full-blown limerence?

A. In my opinion it is more useful to have a term that describes the entire cycle. Tennov refers (quoted above) to "when limerence is at low ebb", so she clearly meant to include this.

Q. What is original about Tennov's contribution?

A. Certainly not her description of limerent symptoms! In the 6th Century B.C., the Greek poet Sappho described feelings of limerence in her famous ode (translated by Catullus). The first fairly complete description of the symptoms was made in the 12th century by Andreas Capellanus in De Arte Honeste Amandi.

I think Tennov's major contribution was bringing to people's attention that there are nonlimerents -- people who do not fit the limerent pattern. This vital fact lay buried under the rubble, because of the many other meanings attached to the word "love".

Those who popularize concepts also play their role. Columbus deserves credit for bringing America to the general attention of the Europeans, even though he wasn't the first person to set foot on it.

Q. What are the advantages of limerence (to an individual)?

A. "None", said I. "Those of us who favour limerence do so because it's part of our axiomatic preference set -- we can't justify it in terms of other preferences."

But one of my correspondents refuted me very well: "Ecstasy, bliss, and all those other things that love-song, novel, and folklore enthuse over. The limerent state implies terrible depths of unhappiness (not-quite-hopeless-enough unrequited limerence), but also heights of joy unexperienced by the nonlimerent, when the longed-for mutuality arrives. It wouldn't exist if it didn't have ups and well as downs -- so don't write limerence off as completely without 'advantages'. Remember, there's a reason all those folks say that 'Love is the greatest joy in life, and the reason for living.' They're not talking about brotherly-love, and they're not talking about sex+friendship."

This correspondent then utterly astounded me by saying, "I am a complete nonlimerent"!

Q. What is romance?

A. For a limerent, "romance" is a very strong intuitive idea that defies definition. But here's a start: "the art of conveying affection to a lover ... to love and be loved in imaginative caring ways. Romance is a mixture of many elements: it often starts with good manners, it may take off into fantasy, and then we're dazzled by the experience of a dream coming to life. Where there is no passion or intensity, there is no romance. Where there is no admiration, there is no romance. And where there is no sensitivity, there is no romance." (paraphrased from Michael Morgenstern and Nathaniel Branden) Disraeli called romance "the offspring of love and fiction"!

In other words, "romantic" (for a limerent) means "pertaining to the channel through which limerence can be expressed".

Some nonlimerents proceed on the assumption that

romance = sex + friendship

(This is not a definition of nonlimerence. Do not use this statement for diagnostic purposes! And for you Christian etc. types, "sex" above need not mean "fornication"; we're talking about whatever expression of sexual attraction you may happen to use.) Occasionally, nonlimerents make this equation explicitly, as the great nonlimerent pioneer sex psychologist Havelock Ellis did: "love may be regarded, roughly speaking, as a synthesis of lust and friendship." But more often you'll see the assumption made implicitly, in dialogues like the following:

Limerent: I am seeking romance.
Nonlimerent: Uh -- you're not getting laid enough, is that the problem?
Limerent: No, romance is an interpersonal relationship --
Nonlimerent: Well, if it's interpersonal relationships you want, why couldn't you have them with a member of the not appropriate sex just as well as with a MOTAS?
Limerent: No, romance is a really powerful bond that goes beyond friendship. Don't you have a powerful emotional bond with your SO?
Nonlimerent: Of course I do -- it's a bond that has developed over time. But if you don't happen to already have such a bond, why would you want one? You know, I think what you're really after is possession. You shouldn't be so possessive. Etc.

Yes, I know that some of you nonlimerents out there are more enlightened than that, but I'm afraid you're a minority. :-(

Q. Is mutual limerence destructive?

A. My opinion (and Tennov's opinion; but there are those who vehemently disagree with us) is that limerence is not inherently destructive. What is destructive is getting married when limerence is the only thing that's drawing you together. If you do that, then as soon as the bloom of the romance is off, you'll wonder why the hell you got married.

Q. How do I recover from unrequited limerence?

A. Slowly. :-(

Recall the three ways that Tennov says limerence can end:

1. Consummation (The LO becomes limerent about the sufferer.) That seems to be ruled out if you're asking this question.
2. Starvation (The limerence dies because there's no subconscious hope left of reciprocation. Subconscious hope can linger a long time after all conscious hope is gone.)
3. Transformation (The sufferer becomes limerent about someone else.)

When you are limerent about someone, your perception is that she, of all the people in the world, is uniquely well suited to be your SO. Now, what qualities do you perceive as making her so well suited? You should make a list of those qualities. You should write the list down! Then you should examine it critically.

1. There are probably some qualities you're attributing to her that she doesn't even have! If she scans your list, she may be able to pick out a couple of these.
2. There will be other qualities that she does have, but whose importance to you you overestimate. (Anything along the lines of "I want you because you're bound up in such-and-such a way with the history of my life" can confidently be assigned to this class.) What will help you most to identify these is: interacting with other MOTAS. By that, I do not mean looking for an SO! It's precisely the MOTAS whom you do not regard as SO material who will give you the surprises you need. "Only a blonde will do" may seem like a sure bet, until you meet a brunette who charms you. There will probably be other reasons why the brunette is not a suitable SO, but so what? She's still helped you to refine your list.
3. There will be some qualities that you've left off the list altogether whose importance you will later come to realise. Of these, the most shining example is that the person has to want you. It doesn't diminish your limerence now to know that your LO doesn't want you, but boy, will it matter when you establish your next SOship!
4. For the qualities that remain, you need merely convince yourself that the number of MOTAS who possess those qualities is greater than one, and then commence searching for some of them.

Trying to maintain a close friendship under the conditions of unrequited limerence is not a good idea; it slows down the healing process.

Q. Isn't there a better way to combat limerence -- by improving your self-esteem?

posted February 12, 2010 04:32 PM         

I'm assuming that Rck is your friend because he's the younger person. Although he's the younger person, he's an adult. He's 29 years old. Even before I looked at his chart, that was what I said to myself. He's an adult man and there must be more to this story than he's telling you.

Never the less, transiting Pluto will soon be conjunct his 7th house cusp, that's his Descendant which symbolizes our partnerships. Pluto rules obsession and atomic strength power. Pluto also rules pressure and he feels that pressure to move.

Transiting Saturn is very close to being square to his Ascendant/Descendant Axis. That transiting Saturn square Pluto is what truly explains the full obsessive control that he's experiencing right now. It's one of the most powerful and difficult aspects that can be experienced and it's affecting that ASC/DSC axis.

I have no doubt that he will move soon. Right now Saturn is retrograde and has moved backwards from the square to his [edit] Ascendant, but Pluto will soon be on his Descendant. He will probably move then.

His chart shows that he might have to move a few times before he settles, but in a situation like this it might be better for him to sleep on a few friends' couches than to stay in a place where he is controlled so severely.

His chart also suggests that he will have some kind of wealth in his life at some point in his life. This particular situation occuring now maybe the situation that helps him to build financial muscles and to realize that he is extremely resourceful.

Overall, his chart suggests that he has some issues to deal concerning his early childhood home, specifically having to do with his mother or a maternal figure. It may be that she vanished in some way, shape or form and there is a great deal of idealization surrounding or and women in general. As I look at the conjunction he has in his 6th house, it makes me think that it was a little too easy for him to fall into a situation like this with this older woman who controls him.

His judgement may not be very clear when it comes to women and relationships and he may have a tendency to give too much of himself to others, to the point where he actually gives himself away, he leaves himself behind.

I wish him luck, that things go as smooth as possible because it does look very tough.

As a matter of fact, I wish everyone good luck who is dealing with this current Pluto square Saturn aspect currently happening. It is everyone's personal "Haiti Earthquake".

Geocosmic Valentine
Professional Astrologer
geocosmicvalentine@yahoo.com
. www.myspace.com/geocosmicvalentine

posted February 12, 2010 05:09 PM         

Ok, he is 28, not 29, will be 29 on his bday, Oct. 31st. No matter.

Actually, she was my friend first. I was best friends with her husband who passed. Rck, was employed by her husband and herself. Rck was supposed to be bequeathed the business, because he is such a hard worker, never misses a day, and a master in this feild, far moreso then men twice his age.
Well, my friend trusted his wife to carry out his wishes, and leave the business to Rck, so he put nothing in writing.
She did not do so.
In fact, after the funeral, she cancelled all the upcoming jobs (and they were some big ones!) thereby putting Rck in a financial crisis. He could not make rent. She then said, "well, I will rent you a room."
She had this planned out from the start, and she told me so.
They did have a 3 week romance, where she admitted to seducing Rck. He felt sorry for her, and I guess obligated? I dont know. But, it was short lived, and he said he did not enjoy it whatsoever. He said she had no emotional intensity, or, not enough for him.
He told her, no more, just friends.
But, she doesnt give up.

What you see regarding childhood is the fact that his mother left him in his fathers care while she traveled in the Air force. His father was a very abusive man in all manners. Rck was locked in a closet forced to listen to his sister being raped. Terrible childhood. Now he is very close to his mother, they speak several times a day on the phone.

Another hit you found, was that he sneaks some money to his mother, to put in an account. He wishes to buy a house outright with cash, and for that you must emass a chunk of money.

As far as me not knowing the whole story, well, who ever does? I know what she says, and what he says. I also speak with his brother frequently, who tells me the same things that Rck tells me. That she has gone loopy with control. He must take his phone to the bathroom, and sleep with it under his pillow.
His brother says his depression is very bad, and I am concerned because my friend has tried to hang himself before, in a tree in front of his mothers house, no less.

I feel like intervening on his behalf, but I doubt it will do anything but make it worse for him.
He is a loving, generous guy. Moody, but would give the shirt from his back, and I miss him terribly, and I am very angry at her for acting this way. She's gone mad with control and she doesnt see that she is setting it up for him to hate her, which seems to already be happening.

Also, she antagonizes him, I've seen it. She gets in his face, follows him around, pushes his shoulders. I fear his Scorp temper will one day explode, and he might do something to her, and she WOULD call the police, and he will end up in jail. ugggg.

posted February 12, 2010 05:28 PM         

The only thing that I meant by him not telling you all of the story is what you just told me above which is that he did have intimate contact with her. That was the only missing piece of the puzzle in your original post, but I assumed it myself, I just didn't want to say it until it was confirmed.

He needs to get out of there. After your explaination that he already has a history of suicide, he needs to take care of himself by leaving that situation immediately. Forget about the comforts of home, he'll have that again soon, he just needs to get out and think of himself only right now. This woman is replaying his childhood experiences that he witnessed with his sister, except this time - he is playing the role of his sister and the woman is his father.

It's as simple as that, plain and clear!

He needs to rescue himself in a way that he couldn't do for his sister when they were children. He needs to remember that he was a child and was powerless over that painful situation. He's a man now, sometimes we all need to be reminded that we are adults who have some semblence of power now and resources.

I wonder if he has told you whether or not this woman has threatened to harm herself. That also appears like a strong possibility in the chart. If she's threatening her own suicide, he still needs to know that he has to walk way. RUN AWAY!!

posted February 12, 2010 06:59 PM         

I don't know if she threatens to hurt herself or not, but she does this:

Sometimes he and I go to a restaurant down the street from me. We go there to shoot pool, and have a few beers, it's a public place, and lots of people go there.
While there, she will text over, and over and over. She will do this until he shuts his phone off.
Then she will start texting my phone.

If he does not respond to her wishes to come home right then, when he gets home, she's locked herself in her room. Once for 3 days!!
During the 3 days, all work was cancelled, as she is the boss, and she determines what jobs they take. He is powerless in that manner.
They lost so much money when she did that!!

He called me to come over and lure her out. I did go there, and she did let me in. I held her while she cried that he did not love her. But, still, she would not come out.
Oh, it's a mess.

His latest myspace update was: "Revaluating my life." I hope so.

It's gotten so bad, we cannot have contact at all. I have to speak to him through his brother, and now she's suspicious of that, and doesn't want him talking to his own brother. Uggg.
I guess there is nothing for me to do, but wait it out. I can't get any messages to him, because it makes it worse for him when he gets texts from me.

I think she sought a replacement when her husband passed, as he was the closest male to her husband. This is the only thing I can think of. I've heard him shout to her that he does not love her, but it does not phaze her in the least. I am truly worried.
My dread grows exponentially by the day, as I am so connected to this person, I can feel his despair.

posted February 12, 2010 08:52 PM         

AND...

A young person is experiencing a deep discouragement. This young person belongs to the entourage of a friend. He/she has artistic skills. It’s a gifted person. He/she is currently inside an anxious period on the love level. His/her situation is not well defined. His/her internal feelings tend to put him/her in a situation of sacrifice. The person(2) that he/she love doesn’t have a serious behaviour. He/she(2) has an affair with more than one person. The young person who is concerned suffers from it and his/her intentions are worrying. He/she has suicidal thoughts. He/she must be comforted and he/she will need assistance on the psychological level. The situation is very serious. Pay attention to the fact that he/she will seek to dispose of his/her goods to give them to others. It will be an alarming signal.

These were my answers in an online tarot spread concerning this question!! Oh, my!!

posted February 12, 2010 09:55 PM         

Short of kidnapping him, there's nothing you can do. He is an adult man who keeps himself in this situation. If he's not communicating with others about the situation, you have to let him walk through this path alone. If at anytime you or his family believe he or she are in physical danger, take appropriate action. But if not, there are certain situations we all have to move through alone.

If you feel very connected to him, try emitting a peaceful energy and if he feels that maybe he'll contact you, but if you are connected to his feelings of despair, you need to cut off telepathic contact. I understand that you love your friend, but this abusive situation should not create weakness for everyone.

One of my favorite sayings is: Why worry when you can pray? Prayer erases doubt. Be in concious contact with your Higher Power.

I pray for the well being of all of you.

posted February 12, 2010 11:12 PM         

I will pray as you suggest, and I will send him the best vibes I can muster up, and trust that the universe will rectify the situation.