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Author Topic:   Grandmother's chart
Soothsayer
Knowflake

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posted August 28, 2011 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Recently I tried to pull up the charts of my grandparents, playing around with the times until I found the most appropriate Ascendant (as well as the other points...). I was in a clear state of mind that evening when I started with my mom's mother and had closed my eyes and some how just seen the time *1:53pm* this has never happened to me but I went with that and her chart seemed to fit her like a glove and my mother agreed so I'm quite sure I've got it right.

Now with my grandmother on my father's side, I think I may have got it right but I'm not entirely sure. All her twelfth house planets, and that Moon conjunct Pluto sure makes sense but I'm still not sure. She passed away April 16th of last year and I would like to look at her transits, progressions and solar arc for that date (and a few others significant days of her life...) but I don't want to go to far with it if I have anything wrong in her natal.
So I'm hoping if I post her chart some of you will be able to interpret it for me, that way I can know how accurate I was or not...and I want to know the good, bad, and the ugly... unfortunately, if the chart is right there will be a lot of ugly. Sadly that's the side she expressed the most. Anyway here's the chart, thanks in advance


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Soothsayer
Knowflake

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posted August 28, 2011 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know much about fixed stars being in conjunction to an angle?

I didn't put it in the chart here, but looking at it now she had Sirius conjunct her MC. Would this hold any significance?

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 03:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump?

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a heavily libra grandmother .. Was she full of advice about simplicity and how things should be .. I know that sounds weird because libra and leo are supposed to be so lavish . My grandmother is more about quality and simplicity plus shes full of advice sometimes to much...If thats the time that just came to you then go with it also plug in other times altho that might just confuse you more

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
also uranus being in the 8th is supposed to be really strange

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 03:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
chiron in 25 degree leo 25 leo is supposed to be one of the worst degrees in the zodiac ...as in nastiness .. I have experience with two placements and it can be vicious deviant tyrant just my experience

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you

Well she was mentally disturbed in a sense. She had a terrible life, and a horrible start. Those deep rooted psychological fears really screwed up her sense of self worth. She had what I call an inferiority complex. She was so insecure and wanted to impress everyone but the obsessive thought and fear of rejection made her become snappy and miserable. She assumed someone was going to react badly so she was mean about it. All those twelfth house planets I guess... hidden angst and emotion.

She definitely imposed her opinions on you, but I didn't ever think she mean most of what she said. She just said things for the sake of saying thing.

It really upsets me to know she died miserable and lonely. Although I understand that at the end of the day she chose bitterness...I wish I could have done more to save her soul. But with deep rooted problems like that it's difficult to really get through to the person.

Yeah I'm kinda stumped on that 8th house Uranus. What I find chilling is when looking at her progressions for the date of her death, her P. Uranus was conjunct her natal Uranus (in the 8th) and her P.Saturn was conjunct her natal Saturn (in her 9th).
You said you're grandmother was all about quality...so was mine. She took great care of her skin and her hair. Unfortunately she didn't treat the rest of her body with that kind of pride and respect. She was a diabetic and passed away from liver failure. She was so sick. Makes me tear up to think about her being in all that physical AND mental pain. But she spent soo much money on clothing and hair supplies, ect. Things she never even used! Such a hoarder (again with the twelfth house planets). When my dad cleaned out her room after she passed away almost everytihng she owned was unused with a tag still on it!

The grandmother that I visualized the time of birth was my other grandma, on my mother's side. It's weird, I had a vivid dream about her father (my mother's grandfather) as a young man (I only met him when I was about a year old and he was in his 60s I believe). Ever since then I have had these weird insights into family members on that side (and a few other things of course). Since that time came to me so suddenly I honestly thnk he sent it to me. I am not a psychic so it must have been him.


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Soothsayer
Knowflake

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posted August 29, 2011 03:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Saraintheski:
chiron in 25 degree leo 25 leo is supposed to be one of the worst degrees in the zodiac ...as in nastiness .. I have experience with two placements and it can be vicious deviant tyrant just my experience

That's very accurate describing my grandmother...could you explain a bit further how this aspect affects you please?

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 03:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry about that sounds really tragic my grandmother sort of a clear hoarder still collect water bills from the 90s and my moms shoulder pads from the 80's lol .. I noticed saturn/uranus transits during peoples deaths .. 26 degrees leo okay I know someone with moon conjunct pluto in 25 extreme ups and when they get angry it's like the most vicious and cold and scary stuff being said to you it totally takes you back .. i'm not sure how this would be with Chiron ..I'll look it up

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 03:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
YES!! So true. She did have very intense emotions and she absolutely said things that were vicious and cold hearted (which I completely feel is due to her inferiority complex). Her words would bite.

I remember going to the old age home to visit her when I was about 10 or 11 years old. Her room was small and jam packed with so much CRAP. We have a family of 5 (my parents, me, and my two younger siblings) so all of us in that room with no space it was very likely for something to get knocked over. On this particular day my father knocked somethng over (yes he is a bigger, heavier man but even the smallest person would have bumped into something). I'll never forget her words and the heart broken look on my dad's face. She basically gave him s*** about knocking it over (I believe it was a plant) and called him a fat ass and said he needed to loose weight.

It's sad because she really had a big heart, it was just all the losses she suffered as a child and young adult brought her into this miserable abyss. She couldn't see anything or anyone clearly. She made up ideas in her head until she believed them. If she had a better life growing up maybe this would have been different... I dunno.


(Hahaha... shoulder pads. What were women thnking then? Some of the trends in the 80s and 90s were so ridiculous.)

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 04:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My grandmother is getting cranky with age she can be cold and she thinks nobody appreciates her . She'll tell you how to do everything she screams when you touch her stuff she called me a snot nosed little b*tch one time .. altho I found that hilarious later on ... heres some info on 25 degrees leo
25 degrees of Leo is also violent. In predictive astrology, problems will result from this placement according to the affairs it rules and/or house it is in. This is a very strong degree of alchoholism. Many who are chronic alcoholics have prominent planets on the 25th degree of Taurus, Leo, Scorpio or Aquarius. Especially strong if Neptune is involved.

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, yes she had a problem with alcohol. Maybe not an alcoholic but definitely a binge drinker. She had problems with pills too.


I think the whole cranky, and nagging qualities come with most women as they get older. It's like they are bored and having nothing better to do then complain. Plus they think they are giving you meaningful advice and learning experience. Hah.

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 04:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that's terrible and in her time it was even harder to get help probably she was so skewered as a kid and probably abandoned somewhat .. You'd hate to remember stuff like that hopefully she got some escape and clarity when she passed on ..

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 04:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am really getting comfortable with this being her chart. It makes sense. It describes her and her like to a T, in my opinion.

Looking at her transits for the day she died, transiting Sun, Moon, and Mercury were all in her 8th house.
Hmm transiting Saturn was in her 12th house. This explains her intense depression over her last few years of life. It was a time of self-doubt and restriction. Ah I wish I could have been there to help her more. But she denied any attention or love. And she became mean about it. If only I was a little older at that time, and had looked at her chart. Maybe I could have helped her understand her fears and her doubts. Point out her strengths.

Oh well, no sense dwelling on the "what ifs" right?

For that date also, her progressed Jupiter and Pluto were in the progressed 8th house... progressed mars in the progressed 12th.. Transiting Mars was passing over her progressed 8th house. That's creepy lol...

Her progressed Neptune was conjunct her Solar Arc Jupiter and Moon (wide orb though) in her natal twelfth house.
I am going to research all of these aspects and see how many link to death and sickeness...these make a ton of sense to me anyhow.

I'm also going to resort to my book by Julia and Derek Parker. They interpret midpoints in not only the natal but also in transits and progressions. The interpretations its given for my own transits and progressions have been very accurate....

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 04:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what I'm most concerned of; her finding peace and being able to move on to whatever she is supposed to be doing.

She didn't want a funeral, but I think we should have had one anyway. A few months ago my mom woke up every night at about 3am for about a week to a tap on the window. She always thought of my grandma when it happend. I think she is trying to get her attention. She needs help. Or at least did. There hasn't been quite as much activity lately but still I have the most sickening feeling that she is lost.

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Saraintheski
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posted August 29, 2011 04:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saraintheski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harsh Saturn aspects can cause bitterness thats one I try to avoid with myself .. Angelina Jolie has 12th house saturn she described herself being inside when everyone was out there .. I was always an oddball and I can take out my frustrations on those I love because everything feels so cruel.. I have a fear of being an lonely sick woman when I get older .. the 8th house stuff is strange

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Soothsayer
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posted August 29, 2011 05:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm...

Her progressed Uranus/ASC and Saturn/ASC midpoints were conjunct her natal N.Node and Chiron.

Progressed Uranus/MC and Saturn/MC were conjunct her Moon and Pluto conjunction.

Progressed Neptune/MC midpoint was conjunct her natal 12th house Venus in Virgo.

Progressed Mars/Pluto midpoint was conjunct her natal twelfth house Sun in Libra.

Not sure how to interpret these on my own but they're definitely interesting to me. Gonna look a bit more into it over the next few days.

Here are some description by Julia and Derek Parker for midpoints (I am using these for her Solar Arcs on date of death...)

-Saturn/Neptune midpoint conjunct Pluto: "A stormy and progressive period."
-Mars/Uranus midpoint conjunct Pluto: "Getting caught up with demonstrations. Trouble."

I guess the last one could correlate with medical procedures not going as planned. Troubles in health.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2011 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sun and Mars could be called as not 12th house, but rather as Conj the ASC.

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Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2011 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That would leave Neptune and Mercury in the 12th. Was she psychic and other worldly.
Did she have a very hard time with communicating and expressing herself?

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Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2011 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
R of 6 in 12
Did she have bad health issues, perhaps mental health ones.
Did she have anything bad happen at work or while doing service to others?

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Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2011 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was she super in to either career or her public image.If not, this chart would not be right. Was she really concerned with her social standing?

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Ami Anne
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posted August 30, 2011 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did she have a disorganized house? Did she have disorganized papers, spices etc lol

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Soothsayer
Knowflake

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posted August 30, 2011 10:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
That would leave Neptune and Mercury in the 12th. Was she psychic and other worldly.
Did she have a very hard time with communicating and expressing herself?

Oh hi Ami

Well she very well could have been psychic or other wordly. Although I wouldn't have ever known because she didn't discuss herself with anybody. So this answers your second question. She was very insecure and hard on herself. This resulted in what I would consider an inferiority complex. She obsessed over what other people thought of her and what kind of reaction she would get and once she actually seen the person or whatever she was worried about happened, she became bitter and cruel either towards the other person or toward herself. Sometimes her unrealistic fear would make her avoid things all together. She missed out on a lot of meaningful times with our family because of this. She lost a lot of good people in her life because they got fed up with trying to make her happy and impress her.

I think all of this stemmed from her abusive childhood and then having her first two children (twin girls) being taken away from her. She was only about 15 when she had them and she didn't take very good care of herself so child services took them away and granted her no access. It's really sad actually. The only way she could see them and watch them grow was by hiding behind the bushes by their school during their lunch hour and watch them play. Makes me so sad to think about it.

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Soothsayer
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posted August 30, 2011 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
R of 6 in 12
Did she have bad health issues, perhaps mental health ones.
Did she have anything bad happen at work or while doing service to others?



She had type one diabetes and poor kidney function. She partied a lot and popped a lot of pills. Unfortunately she also abused her prescription medication also. She most definitely had mental health issues...this all resulting from her terrible childhood but also imagined fears as she got older. She was completely miserable.

I'm not sure about anything bad happening to her when helping somebody. She did work in an old folks home before she got really bad. I could ask my dad if he knows of anything happening.

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Soothsayer
Knowflake

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posted August 30, 2011 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soothsayer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Was she super in to either career or her public image.If not, this chart would not be right. Was she really concerned with her social standing?


That was something she definitely focused on. She wanted to impress everyone and her entire life and self worth depended on how other people seen her. She became depressed almost from the obsessional thought over it.

Once she married my grandfather and had my dad (my two uncles were born before him, two different fathers...Can you see anything in this chart indicating multiple partners/marriages? lol), although she was a good mother when she was home, she seemed to put more energy and time into her friends and the bar. I guess she knew her family was there always, she needed to make sure she had a "social standing" at all and that her friends would be there. Can imagine how stunned she was when her family was gone.

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