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Author Topic:   To RAS - Friend's chart
Starry~*
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posted February 09, 2012 08:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Synastry: My friend (guy) on outside

Composite:


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Starry~*
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posted February 09, 2012 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PS - yes there's an age difference, but please disregard that. This is real.

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First, I see the love stellium--bingo!

If you notice on a thread I just replied to recently in this section....
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/002756.html

Doreen has the love stellium with her crush as well. Composite Sun opp mercury or Venus is interpreted in the same way as Composite Sun conjunct mercury or venus. She is crazy about him, and this is often seen with what I call "the love stellium," which to me shows true love. The love stellium=sun-venus-mercury conjunction

They dont all have to be conjunct the other, and the stellium does not have to be tight, either, but it is important that sun and venus ARE conjunct. And the tighter the stellium, the stronger the love.

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Starry~*
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posted February 09, 2012 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately, they broke up. Any aspects that show issues?

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The synastry and composite are both nice. I noticed a DW moon-uranus in synastry...that makes two people have tons of chemistry...physical as well as mental

There's a venus-mars square, a moon-neptune trine which is always nice, and his sun sextile her venus and mercury. What bothers me is I dont see any pluto other than moon square pluto in the composite. C. moon sq pluto creates feelings of codependence in both people until one or both people feel suffocated by their inabality to step out of their comfort zone and talk to other people and to stay so wrapped up in each other that they dont do or meet anyone else. Eventually their codependence repulses one or both people and they feel they must "break free" so they can get their identity back. They don't have any nice pluto aspects in composite, and also zero pluto aspects in synastry. So this tells me that though there is real undertsanding and appreciation here because of the love stellium, she isn't what he feels is "the love of his life"

However, it definitely is a nice relationship. There might be a problem where he doesnt see her clearly at all with all those neptune squares in the composite....she may end up disappointing him and being completely different from what he imagined..tell him to watch out. But it should be nothing major because the love stellium always makes forgiveness possible and true love persevere.

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Starry~*:
Unfortunately, they broke up. Any aspects that show issues?

Just saw this. Other than what i already mentioned. There werent many aspects in synastry, which i feel acts like a sort of glue between two people. Sun sextile venus and moon trine neptune, venus square mars, and DW moon-uranus are not enough to hold a relationship together.

However, I bet there was real love and appreciation between them. And i bet, on some level, they both miss each other and would never turn their back against the other. Love stellium.

I feel the reason they broke up is the lack of glue holding them together....few synastry aspects with no strong pluto aspects. I dont think they felt they were each other's "one true love"

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ariesdragon
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posted February 09, 2012 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ariesdragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You never know though they might get back together? Ohh RAS u are wonderful please tell me some of the aspects that make the "glue" in a synastry or composite chart please.

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Starry~*
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posted February 09, 2012 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Just saw this. Other than what i already mentioned. There werent many aspects in synastry, which i feel acts like a sort of glue between two people. Sun sextile venus and moon trine neptune, venus square mars, and DW moon-uranus are not enough to hold a relationship together.

However, I bet there was real love and appreciation between them. And i bet, on some level, they both miss each other and would never turn their back against the other. Love stellium.

I feel the reason they broke up is the lack of glue holding them together....few synastry aspects with no strong pluto aspects. I dont think they felt they were each other's "one true love"


Yes the love is definitely there. The man definitely feels she's the one for him and the girl also.

- Unfortunately, they broke up due to background differences and age difference. That's what it all boiled down to. She couldn't accept him for who he is.

- Plus, she has a HUGE issue of running away from problems, and he tried so hard to get her to stay and work through it.

- Her first excuse for the breakup was that she wanted to be independent, when independence was all he gave her. He gave her room that she wanted but she was always clinging onto him.

- He gave her all the material things she needed or wanted.

- She said she needed some time after the break up where they don't talk so she can "deplete" all her feelings for him.

- She chose her family over him, despite the fact she despises them and her family was never really there for her.

- She is VERY delusional, mainly instilled into her head by her highly abusive mother.

- He is a very family oriented man and his family was very accepting of her and their relationship.

- She ****** him off cuz she was REALLY inconsiderate of him at times.

- She has IMMENSE pride that REALLY needed to be stripped away from her in order for her to LEARN.

- She's very unforgiving, tough, and sometimes REALLY unreasonable and insensitive to him.

- Their brains were on a TOTALLY different level. He's REALLY smart, quick, lively and agile mind. She's really not smart at all. There were ALOT of things they did not see eye-to-eye with...but unfortunately he let that slide, only to realize this was an issue AFTER they broke up.

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ariesdragon:
You never know though they might get back together? Ohh RAS u are wonderful please tell me some of the aspects that make the "glue" in a synastry or composite chart please.

Aww, thank you AriesDragon. For the record, I adore Aries Dragon people . I think "glue" aspects are Sun trine or conjunct venus, venus conjunct mars, venus trine, sextile or conjunct pluto, venus trine or conjunct neptune, sun trine or conjunct jupiter, moon square or conjunct venus, moon trine uranus, venus trine or conjunct uranus, moon trine or sextile pluto, moon trine neptune, venus trine or conjunct jupiter or neptune. Sun trine or conjunct moon. Those are all beautiful aspects to have, the more of these the better and they are even nicer when they happen twice in synastry (called a Double Whammy). But it's always important to have lots of "feel-good" aspects. Feel good aspects are aspects with neptune, venus, and jupiter. The other nice aspects just add the extra glue to keep things interesting, but i've found the most important thing is to have at least one aspect with each of those three planets (neptune, jupiter, venus). Pluto is very important for a relationship that feels truly fulfilling. However, squares and oppositions with pluto are terrible....the torture is immense because you both love each other a lot yet cannot do anything other than hurt each other because you don't understand each other's needs. As far as saturn goes, I look for one or two positive saturn aspects. Too much saturn is bad, and Double Whammy saturn aspects are terrible because they make people feel like they should get together but only out of a sense of duty. They really make each other feel restricted and depressed.

Uranus squares are also terrible because it gives people a feeling of "This relationship is so unpredictable, that i don't even know when i'll see you again"

Uranus, mars, and saturn squares equals arguments, criticism, general unhappiness.

In the composite, basically what i look for is venus trine or conjunct pluto OR sun conjunct pluto or square pluto combined with either the love stellium (sun-mercury-venus conjunction) or sun conjunct jupiter. Sun opposite mercury or venus is interpreted the same as the conjunction in composites. All the same rules apply as in synastry about the feel-good aspects (venus, neptune, and jupiter) so i mainly look for those in the composite, since composites usually don't have many aspects anyway. Sun square or opposite saturn is bad in a composite as it makes people hate each other. Usually you see it combined with the love stellium, because the stellium brings people together, but eventually saturn makes things too depressing. Moon square or opposite saturn, uranus or neptune are also terrible in the composite. Venus sq or opp uranus, neptune or saturn in composite are not great but they arent terrible either..it's tolerable and wont tear a relationship apart like moon in negative aspect to these planets will. Moon in negative aspect to pluto in composite isn't great, but it wont tear a relationship apart single-handedly either.

Moon square venus in synastry in composite is a very overlooked aspect which creates extremely loving feelings between two people. Some amazing double whammies to have in synastry are sun-jupiter, moon-venus, venus-neptune, and sun-neptune. Basically any personal planet (sun, moon, venus) in aspect to a feel good planet (neptune, venus, jupiter). And most touching of all is venus-pluto. But DW always need lots of other nice aspects to support them, they cant hold a relationship on their own.

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Starry~*
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posted February 09, 2012 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Aww, thank you AriesDragon. For the record, I adore Aries Dragon people . I think "glue" aspects are Sun trine or conjunct venus, venus conjunct mars, venus trine, sextile or conjunct pluto, venus trine or conjunct neptune, sun trine or conjunct jupiter, moon square or conjunct venus, moon trine uranus, venus trine or conjunct uranus, moon trine or sextile pluto, moon trine neptune, venus trine or conjunct jupiter or neptune. Sun trine or conjunct moon. Those are all beautiful aspects to have, the more of these the better and they are even nicer when they happen twice in synastry (called a Double Whammy). But it's always important to have lots of "feel-good" aspects. Feel good aspects are aspects with neptune, venus, and jupiter. The other nice aspects just add the extra glue to keep things interesting, but i've found the most important thing is to have at least one aspect with each of those three planets (neptune, jupiter, venus). Pluto is very important for a relationship that feels truly fulfilling. However, squares and oppositions with pluto are terrible....the torture is immense because you both love each other a lot yet cannot do anything other than hurt each other because you don't understand each other's needs. As far as saturn goes, I look for one or two positive saturn aspects. Too much saturn is bad, and Double Whammy saturn aspects are terrible because they make people feel like they should get together but only out of a sense of duty. They really make each other feel restricted and depressed.

Uranus squares are also terrible because it gives people a feeling of "This relationship is so unpredictable, that i don't even know when i'll see you again"

Uranus, mars, and saturn squares equals arguments, criticism, general unhappiness.

In the composite, basically what i look for is venus trine or conjunct pluto OR sun conjunct pluto or square pluto combined with either the love stellium (sun-mercury-venus conjunction) or sun conjunct jupiter. Sun opposite mercury or venus is interpreted the same as the conjunction in composites. All the same rules apply as in synastry about the feel-good aspects (venus, neptune, and jupiter) so i mainly look for those in the composite, since composites usually don't have many aspects anyway. Sun square or opposite saturn is bad in a composite as it makes people hate each other. Usually you see it combined with the love stellium, because the stellium brings people together, but eventually saturn makes things too depressing. Moon square or opposite saturn, uranus or neptune are also terrible in the composite. Venus sq or opp uranus, neptune or saturn in composite are not great but they arent terrible either..it's tolerable and wont tear a relationship apart like moon in negative aspect to these planets will. Moon in negative aspect to pluto in composite isn't great, but it wont tear a relationship apart single-handedly either.

Moon square venus in synastry in composite is a very overlooked aspect which creates extremely loving feelings between two people. Some amazing double whammies to have in synastry are sun-jupiter, moon-venus, venus-neptune, and sun-neptune. Basically any personal planet (sun, moon, venus) in aspect to a feel good planet (neptune, venus, jupiter). And most touching of all is venus-pluto. But DW always need lots of other nice aspects to support them, they cant hold a relationship on their own.


RAS - how wide of an orb do you usually consider in synastry?

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh i also forgot to mention some minor aspects are important if they are close in orb. I usually just go with whatever astrology3d.com lists in their compatibility report.

For orbs? I don't really know. I go by what astro.com's astro click portrait lists as an aspect and grupovenus.com and astrology3d.com as well. I figure the astrologers who made these websites and reports should know better than me what the right orb to use is for each aspect. =)

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why grupovenus.com is amazing

Moon Mutually Aspects Uranus

There are lots of ups and downs in this relationship, and your feelings towards each other go to extremes. You experience periods of intense emotional excitement and sexual attraction, but at other times you get on each other's nerves and need some distance between you. After your bouts of anger and frustration with each other, your love and attraction for each other bounces back with a freshness and newness that insures that your life together will never become stale or boring. However, the instability of feelings and domestic life may make either, or both, of you long for a more reliable, consistent relationship.


Randy's Moon in Taurus and Helen's Moon in Scorpio

Both of you are rather obstinate and inflexible, and cannot be easily moved once you've made up your mind. Nor does logic or reason work wonders with either of you, when you decide you want something. When the two of you lock horns, it's a matter of which of you wears down first!

Of the two of you, Randy is the more practical and down to earth. A loving, stable home, creature comforts, and peaceful relationships are Randy's ideal. Randy has a much simpler emotional nature than Helen, and is much more easily contented.

Helen's feelings run very deep. Helen loves intensely, but is also capable of tremendous animosity and hostility if hurt or betrayed. Helen has a very private, secretive side and often hides feelings or withdraws from people as a means of self-protection. Anger, guilt, and jealousy are emotions Helen frequently keeps hidden inside.

All of this is rather incomprehensible to Randy, though Randy does share with Helen the tendency to be possessive with a love partner.

Helen also demands much more from a partner in terms of emotional involvement, intimacy, and depth. Helen doesn't accept anything at face value, and it may seem to Randy that Helen is always probing, analyzing feelings, and thereby making unnecessary trouble.

There is a strong magnetic attraction between you, and you can be very, very close, especially if you learn to appreciate one another's ways.

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What astrology3d.com has to say

Helen's Sun Conjunct Randy's Uranus

You inspire each other to try new things, experiment, and investigate alternatives. You may have met each other, for example, during a time period when both of you were breaking free from traditional values and exploring new possibilities. There is a lot of excitement and spontaneity in your relationship. The two of you may find it difficult to settle down into a stable life style - there will always be surprises and unexpected turns in your relationship. You encounter lots of new ideas, unusual people, adventure, and exciting times together. You both enjoy a good measure of freedom and independence in this relationship, but either of you may wish that there was more commitment, devotion, seriousness, warmth, and closeness.

Helen's Moon Conjunct Randy's Uranus

Your feelings towards each other change quickly and you often react to each other rather impulsively. When the mood is right, you find each other sexually irresistible, but at other times you get on each other's nerves. You may feel like you fall in and out of love on a monthly basis! It seems that you are either making love, fighting with each other, or indifferent to each other, and you may sometimes wish for greater constancy. Your domestic life is likely to be very unstable. If you can be flexible and flow with the fluctuating feelings, this relationship can be exciting and fascinating - otherwise your patience will wear thin and you will perceive your relationship as hopelessly unstable and your partner as unreliable and untrustworthy.


----
Simply put, there is too much uranus in this relationship (instability) and not enough glue aspects. Even with all the glue aspects, i mentioned, this relationship would still be challenging with all this uranus. The low amount of important aspects in synastry is disturbing! Sorry, but it just isn't meant to be. They will always be friends because of the love stellium, but when uranus shows the destiny of a relationship is highly unstable, it will be so! There's nothing we can do. Sorry...

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ariesdragon
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posted February 09, 2012 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ariesdragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks RAS I'm gonna save that in my notes

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted February 09, 2012 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ariesdragon:
Thanks RAS I'm gonna save that in my notes

No problem!

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SaggiMC
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posted February 10, 2012 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaggiMC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ariesdragon:
You never know though they might get back together? Ohh RAS u are wonderful please tell me some of the aspects that make the "glue" in a synastry or composite chart please.

Saturn is THE cement which binds people together for good OR bad

Starry, what orbs did you use on astro pls??

max orb between planets is 3'

Basic astrology forum, How to approach Synastry http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum12/private-jjLYZw161/HTML/000667.html
when you get this chart, please also post the *pdf file*, above left should be *view additional tables (PDF)* This will bring up the aspect grid –at a glance planet to planet. Post the whole PDF file, what we are looking for if scroll down to ‘partner comparison’ aspect grid

now his saturn is conj your Jupiter and square your moon. This is not great, he will dampen jupiter's enthusiasms and be/or end up becoming cold, aloof and your emotions may not be nurtured...

Uranus conj moon is very unstable and on my list of divorce aspects. it creates excitemtn but also uncertainty to. things can start suddenly but also end suddently.

the composite ONLY function when actually in a relationship and you have a confirmed TOB for this man

------------------
I love the parable, “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, BUT if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for life.”

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SaggiMC
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posted February 10, 2012 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaggiMC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
re: composite. It's not good have comp sun in 12th (as in natal chart) as it suggests matter kept very private, if not secret. Whether it's due to age difference, who knows..

Have you tried a free composite chart with explanations being 'interactive'
Composite charts
If you go to www.astro.com click on free horoscopes, go to Interactive horoscopes, go down to Astroclick partner, that will bring up a composite chart and when you put the mouse over a planet will bring up a pop up box with the interpretation......

But you do need both times of birth to be accurate though.. enjoy.

Composites describe the relationship, not either one of you, but what you came together to learn or to do and how the 'pair of you' function when together....

you 'should' reduce the orbs ratio on astro.com down to 40% as max orb in synastry and comp is 3'. Also please add transits which is easily seen once you have the chart just above to right is option 'with transits'
http://books.google.com/books?id=dUulSwQoEC4C&pg=PR16&dq=robert+hand+composites&ei=r8HRSsXNEJvmygSIsP3eCQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The Book ---Planets in Composite: Analyzing Human Relationships By Robert Hand-- is greatly recommended

“The composite doesn't seem to describe what either person feels about the other. In this way it is very different from synastry, which describes the chemistry between two people in terms of how they affect each other. The composite chart is like a child, a third entity which carries the genetic imprints of both parents but combines these imprints in an entirely new way and exists independently of either of them” http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_composit_e.htm

“Composites have their own laws and energies, and these have nothing to do with whether we are "well matched" with someone. A composite in itself will not tell us about compatibility. That is what synastry is for. The composite won't reveal whether the relationship is "good" or "bad" in terms of the chemistry between two people. The composite says to us, "If you choose to enter this relationship, here is its meaning and pattern of destiny” http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_composit_e.htm
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/composite.html http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/composite.html

“For example, the composite Ascendant can indicate the circumstances surrounding the first meeting or the beginning of the relationship. It can also point to how a couple initiates things together (such as projects). Similarly, the end of a relationship can be depicted by the composite twelfth house. Once a relationship kicks in (moves beyond the initial stages), the composite Sun becomes more apparent. If a commitment to each other happens, the seventh and eighth houses come more clearly into focus. As such, the conditions surrounding the planets and houses in the composite chart can show us different stages of development of the relationship over time.” http://www.cafeastrology.com/compositechart.html
click on link to read full article
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/composite.html http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/composite.html

“Composite charts that has ascendant and midheaven agree in element will most closely describe the type of the relationship your partnership has formed. For instance a relationship that has Taurus on the Ascendant and Capricorn on the Midheaven will closely describe a “traditional” relationship. Those charts that do not agree will keep the element of the ascendant as the primary relationship style while incorporating the element of the Midheaven into the relationship. An analysis of the individual’s chart against the composite chart will show how his or her chart meshes with the composite chart and the style of the relationship” http://starrynightastrology.com/2009/08/02/relationship-astrology-making-love-last-part-1-your-relationship-style/

------------------
I love the parable, “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, BUT if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for life.”

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SaggiMC
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posted February 10, 2012 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaggiMC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
composite sun square neptune shows THE relationship has no clear image, boundaries and perhaps confusion as to why you are together even..

venus square neptune, someone is day dreaming and over fantasising here and wearing rose tinted glasses.

I would discount mercury square neptune at 10' separating as too wide. If it were under 8' (natal orbs) then is could suggest lies or deceptions, reading too much between the lines..

moon conj mars in leo in11th shows you care what your friends think about this relatioship. BUT these two are square saturn. moon square saturn shows that common beliefs and values may be at odds and someone feeling unnurtured here.
mars square saturn shows frustrations, delays and limitations, and on/off type relationship.

Lastly, North Node conj Neptune in 3rd house of communications, shows the direction and *Lessons* in this relationship are rooted in communications, neighborhood and with siblings...

------------------
I love the parable, “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, BUT if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for life.”

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Starry~*
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posted February 12, 2012 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Saggi, here is the reduced orbs synastry chart: (The man on the outside)

And here's the PDF:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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Starry~*
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posted February 12, 2012 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SaggiMC:
composite sun square neptune shows THE relationship has no clear image, boundaries and perhaps confusion as to why you are together even..

venus square neptune, someone is day dreaming and over fantasising here and wearing rose tinted glasses.

I would discount mercury square neptune at 10' separating as too wide. If it were under 8' (natal orbs) then is could suggest lies or deceptions, reading too much between the lines..

moon conj mars in leo in11th shows you care what your friends think about this relatioship. BUT these two are square saturn. moon square saturn shows that common beliefs and values may be at odds and someone feeling unnurtured here.
mars square saturn shows frustrations, delays and limitations, and on/off type relationship.

Lastly, North Node conj Neptune in 3rd house of communications, shows the direction and *Lessons* in this relationship are rooted in communications, neighborhood and with siblings...


The differences in values and beliefs is one of the major reasons they broke up. The age difference...she REALLY minded in the end. The cultural background, she REALLY minded also towards the end of the relationship. I guess she realized this now because of the fact that she's going through her saturn transit in Libra. I'm suspecting that during this time, she had realized all these things that she hasn't before, and it's like..reality stepped in and made her say "oh my god...this guy is much older than me, he has a really diff. family background, which I can't accept."

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Starry~*
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posted February 12, 2012 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Saggi,

I've also posted the composite chart and transits for the day they broke up.


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Starry~*
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posted February 12, 2012 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Starry~*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Besides looking at their synastry charts and everything, I also contribute that part of the reason for break up must be related to the transits going on in the girl's chart.

Sorry for making this thread seem so long...haha It's because I wanna use their charts and relationship as a case study.

Please let me know what you can decipher from all of this! Much appreciated:

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SaggiMC
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posted February 12, 2012 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaggiMC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T Uranus quincunx natal moon (2nd of beliefs, self esteem personal values) ]
Cancer rules 11th house of friendships but also 'hopes and wishes'

T Pluto 1' approaching Uranus. Now although these two are generational, uranus is sextile moon (soft aspect) pluto rules 3rd (communications) and uranus rules 6th (daily routines & health)

T Saturn square Neptune, classic depressions and having your dreams, fantasies crushed by reality dose from saturn..

Normally I would look to Saturn conj Venus, as this one usually breaks my relationship, but also keeps you short of money to.,.

I think the moon conj uranus in the synastry suggests it may have been quite sudden, exciting, different, but unstable.. and probably ended quickly to.

Basic astrology forum, Learn Transits http://www.linda-goodman.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Basic+Astrology&number=12&DaysPrune=

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I love the parable, “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, BUT if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for life.”

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