posted May 05, 2012 03:55 AM            

a brief summary:

i am in love with two (quite different) women and this is my last resort to find a solution. the ladies are both from venus (taurus and libra) and i have been emotionally/romantically involved with both of them. knowing them and reading them has been an extraordinary journey for me so far.

both are what most people would consider "ideal" women (intellectual, kind and warm, love to travel, interested in arts & science, stunningly beautiful and graceful) albeit very different in the way they approach love and life in general.

i could go on talking about their personalities (one is taurus sun/taurus rising, the other is libra sun/pisces rising) or their leo moon that has pulled me so close that i feel any form of withdrawal has become impossible. i have spent countless times talking with them, being with them, getting to know them, reading into C.G. Jung's typology, reading into astrology ...

but i guess this journey ends with the disclosure of what "I" demand and expect from a longterm-relationship and a partner. this is where i stand: i need stability, at the same time i need space to grow as a person, expand my horizon, recharge my batteries etc. i want someone who takes care of me (cancer moon), but also someone who challenges me intellectually (sagittarius sun), i want a partner who is not afraid to compromise and someone who values the time we spend together.

i know. i want a lot of things :-) i'm tired of roaming and hunting for aphrodite when apparently i have the fortune (?) of finding two (!) women that embody these qualities and i actually have the chance to be with one of them - can't have them both ;-)

my question:

is there anything in my chart - except for venus AND mars in libra ... that perfectly explains the indecisiveness ;-) - that i have failed to see? anything i need to be aware of?

thank you very much for reading and helping.

have a most wonderful day

mr. grey

posted May 05, 2012 05:28 AM            

thank you for replying. even though i didn't want to disclose this bit of information for you (and the rest of the world) - the situation is a bit more complicated than you think. and i do hope this forum is anonymous, because i do not like to share personal information about other people without their approval.

but ... here it goes:

i have been in a polyamorous "constellation" with the taurus before (she had a boyfriend for 8 years and started to see me and disclosed that she was polyamorous and so is her boyfriend) while i was "mono"amorous - i didn't mind seeing her and getting to know her, but chose not to advance, because i find it hard to handle these sort of "relationships". after a year of knowing her she broke up with her boyfriend and we were seeing each other exclusively. things went well, we fell in love, spent wonderful times together, but due to personal reasons she took off to asia for almost half a year and i was left wondering what would happen if she comes back.

that's when libra came into my life. she is a wonderful person, the attraction is mutual ... we got to know each other, and we "clicked". but she might leave for canada in one or two years. and has had quite a few unfinished emotional battles going on also :-)

meanwhile taurus has returned and became very serious about being in an exclusive relationship with me. that's when things get REALLY complicated because i was starting to open up to libra.

as a sagittarian who grew up in two different parts of the world ... i do not mind moving to another place for love. but at the moment it is very confusing for me to attract all of these women who seem to be almost too perfect for me ... but at the same time both are always on the run, their lifestyles are quite nomadic.

just when i thought i could settle down with someone ... the other side withdraws ... travels to the other side of the world ... comes back ... and ignites the fire again.

it is all a mess, but i guess it's called life :-) and i don't want to go into detail what the "other" side is like to use it as an excuse for my indecisiveness, i'd rather just disclose who i am and what i am looking for.

i guess these kind of relationship problems are not considered conventional (on these boards?) ... and i don't expect any kind of sympathy from you or other readers - but please, don't just judge people by the way they choose to live or love. in the end we are all looking for that someone to spend our time and happiness with.

have a good day

mr. grey

PS: do excuse my somewhat strange english, it is my third language :-)

posted May 05, 2012 09:41 AM            

Personally I do not agree with polyamorous relationships, I am Taurus Venus. Other people's love life is not my business until they make it my business - like you did when you posted it on a public (yet anonymous) forum. Then I may or may not agree with it - it is my right to have an opinion about it and my choice to express it or not. I chose to express it, nothing more.

Now that we got that out of the way, please understand that I can look at your chart but I can't empathize with you. You have a few indications that might suggest this inclination. The Moon-Venus square is notorious for this. Mars in Libra can be and usually is indecissive. I suppose the square to Neptune only amplified your confusion. Sun-Uranus conjunction causes restlessness. Your Saturn which rules the 5th house is poorly aspected - only makes a 10 deg orb conjunction to Pluto (weak self-restraint).

So yes, it is explainable astrologically.

posted May 05, 2012 02:30 PM            

quote:

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You have a few indications that might suggest this inclination. The Moon-Venus square is notorious for this. Mars in Libra can be and usually is indecissive. I suppose the square to Neptune only amplified your confusion. Sun-Uranus conjunction causes restlessness. Your Saturn which rules the 5th house is poorly aspected - only makes a 10 deg orb conjunction to Pluto (weak self-restraint).

---

Thanks. I tried to google all of the things you just mentioned - I'm still new to this ... so bear with me ;-) The Moon-Venus square thing sounds intriguing. I have experienced a conflict between my emotional need and my need for approval. While I feel "at home" with both (taurus and libra) I feel more under pressure when being with libra - wanting to maintain my status job-/careerwise, socializing with the right people, keeping myself fit etc. But it's this very challenge - constantly improving myself and being the best I can be - that draws me to libra. I often ask her (jokingly) if she'd still fancy me when I quit my job, decided to live on an island and dressed like a bum. While she said she'd accept and respect my choice, she found it hard to believe I would opt for this way of life.

While with taurus, I feel relaxed most of the time. Even though taurus is ridiculously goodlooking and smart I don't feel insufficient. We share a strong friendship and she's there for me when I need her. But at the same time ... I don't feel the need to "improve" - she seems to like me just the way I am (horrible, isn't it?)

I guess it all boils down to this inner conflict I am experiencing ... Am I good enough? For me/myself? For someone else? Can I improve? Who or what do I want to be?

Could you tell me more about the square to Neptune?

quote:

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If you posted this thread searching for a way to better understand your inner nature then I will try to help as much as I can, in the hope that it will benefit your growth process (I don't mean that condescendently, we're all growing). But if you want me to help you justify your indecision, that I refuse to do.

---

You have helped me a lot already, and no, I'm not looking for any astrological explanations to justify my indecision. I've always been eager to learn about astrology and how it correlates to psychology. I'm aware of my shortcomings and yes, I wish to "better" myself ;-) and grow.

Thanks for taking your time and have a nice day

posted May 05, 2012 05:54 PM            

quote:

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I guess it all boils down to this inner conflict I am experiencing ... Am I good enough? For me/myself? For someone else? Can I improve? Who or what do I want to be?

---

Neptune causes confusion and can cloud the planets/points he touches by hard aspect (conj, sq, opp).

posted May 06, 2012 02:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mr_grey:

i guess these kind of relationship problems are not considered conventional (on these boards?) ... and i don't expect any kind of sympathy from you or other readers - but please, don't just judge people by the way they choose to live or love. in the end we are all looking for that someone to spend our time and happiness with.

---

I respect you for opening up - and I don't judge you. All too well Mr. Grey, do I relate. All too well...

"Le cœur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connaît point." ~Blaise Pascal
("The heart has its reasons, which Reason does not know.")

Expansively wishing you and all of us on this forum board the love we are seeking: within and around.

posted May 06, 2012 04:23 AM            

quote:

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There was a thread in the Astro section about men with Venus in hard aspect to Moon, I will try to find it, I think you might find it enlightening as it fits the situation well.

---

I came across this thread already. Thanks for bringing it up again, it did help me to understand the situation. And with the extra information you just gave me, everything makes a lot more sense now. Bottomline (at least that's what I got from reading that post): I'm doomed :-) I guess I still have a lot of work to do to find a sound solution.

My desire is closely tied to my self-image. Being the restless perfectionist I am doesn't help a lot in my case, but I know what I need and that's a STABLE relationship.

Temporary (?) solution: I have to make myself more stable and less prone to unrealistic self-scrutinizing. I have invested a lot of time in my relationships the past 2 years, it's always been about finding the perfect one, being with the perfect one, helping the perfect one. I realize that's quite stupid to do, as I barely had time to see myself grow, my focus has always been "the other". Another weak point: I'm a workaholic. When I'm not chasing after Aphrodite I'm doing overtime and that has reflected poorly on my emotional and physical health.

quote:

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If I may say, mr grey, I don't understand why you need to date both of them. I mean, you can get your "kicks" from relating to them by being just friends, too. Why do you feel the need to complicate your love life by bringing extra people in your relationship? What is it about 1 on 1 relationships that you are trying to avoid?

---

That's exactly what my best friend asked me too (a Leo BTW).

Why can't you just be friends?

To put it bluntly:
I have set my mind and heart on being in a relationship with one of them (stubborn and selfish I know). I have quite a few female friends and it has never been a problem for me to stay in the friendzone with them - that's because I don't see the prospect of a (romantic) relationship and I'm also not interested in friendships with benefits. With the Taurus and Libra it's different. I've always been intrigued by their personalities, their biographies, the way they perceive life and the way they express themselves. On top of that, the chemistry is out-of-this-world and beyond platonic terrain. But maybe it's time to let go and just walk away for awhile to see what or who I really need and want in my life?

What is it about 1 on 1 relationships that you avoid?

I don't avoid 1 on 1 relationships. I don't avoid love or responsibility - I fear loss and disappointment. It's a constant struggle to maintain the appropriate balance between closeness and distance - in every situation of my life (be it work or personal) - because being in control emotionally means preserving my freedom and independence. But the main point lies in fear. Fear of losing someone, fear of being alone and fear of taking wrong decisions.

With this being said ... Thank you, Hera, for taking your time and asking the right questions.

I'll think about this more later ... have some unfinished coffee and piles of work on my desk ;-)

posted May 06, 2012 04:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Wild Places:
"Le cœur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connaît point." ~Blaise Pascal
("The heart has its reasons, which Reason does not know.")

---

Perfect quote for this occasion :-) and thank your for the uplifting words. May I ask ... are you in a similar situation?

Mr. Grey

posted May 06, 2012 05:02 AM            

I too, have a Cancer Moon, and an Aqua Sun - so I long for closeness and comfort - while always needing freedom that tends to alienate most of the men I've loved (they internalize it, and take it personally)...

I gravitate towards the nomadic types myself, as I am inspired by their ability to truly have home be wherever they lay their head at night - and explore the world. Where would we be without their great venturesome personas? I am the planner, and the one who keeps the fire warm, ready for their return. I should just get myself a fisherman so I can really live right up to how mythic I am. ha!

Seriously, I quoted Blaise Pascal there for you because not only is it appropriate for the situation; but with your Cancer Moon squaring your Mars and Venus - you'll probably find it resonates with you far more often than not.

You've got a friend here Mr. Grey - a very empathetic friend. Heart goes out to you...

posted May 08, 2012 02:29 PM            

While I cannot make choices for you. I do see that your north node is in your 9th house conjuncting your midheaven (MC) which suggests to me at least that the Libra is the woman who will push you in the direction you are supposed to go. That being said moving towards your north node is not an easy move as it's going to be tough, lots of work, with plenty of obstacles.

posted May 08, 2012 11:33 PM            

I also don't want to make choices for you, but when I was reading your post (w/o seeing your chart) I just felt that you already know who you'd probably be choosing in the end, but decided to focus on your inability to choose between the two women instead... always weighing things, that Libra.

I'm also a perfectionist in some areas (Merc in Virgo), and I also have Moon square Pluto just as you do, so I know that when you feel strongly for someone, it can consume you to no end. I found that it is easier for me to release these intense energies by finding a partner who shares common interests and values and/or if possible, shares the same line of work as I do, so that the two of us could work on a 'pet project' that allows me to divert these borderline obsessive nitpicking qualities externally and not on my partner... it could be helpful in your case as well.

posted May 09, 2012 09:51 AM            

I've been there, Mr. Grey. I walked away from both and found myself. I love them still, in my own way, as they taught me much about life and love and honesty. But I am with the right person now. A perfect combination of the things I want, need and love in a partner.

I wish you clarity in this.

posted May 09, 2012 06:49 PM            

Leo moon??? I can't imagine that from them!

again

Not afraid to compromise - Leo moon???

Challenge you intellectually - I don't think they can challenge you intellectually at the level you desire!

posted May 13, 2012 10:59 AM            

I do think you have connected on an emotional level better with the libra, and maybe because ms taurus has been away.... I say go with your taurus. The stability you seek will be found with her. and trust me, her stubborn ways will be challenging enough to keep you on your toes.