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Author Topic:   Question for Run Around Screaming
Sorcha
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posted July 08, 2012 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi there

I know that a while back you were looking at composite charts and explaining why relationships worked or did not based on the composite. I wonder if you wouldn't mind giving me some brief feedback as to why the following relationship didn't work out. I am guessing that the Saturn conjunct Mars square Uranus as well as squaring Chiron is to blame but I would love to know if you agree, if you have the time to take a look

Thanks,

Sorcha


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Sorcha
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posted July 10, 2012 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*bump* )

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Anchi
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posted July 11, 2012 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Anchi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, I'm not Run Around Screaming lol but that Saturn square Chiron 0.06 ouch, I believe that's what the Magi call the hearbreak clash or something like that. I take them with a huge grain of salt, but some of their stuff does resonate well. My grandparents have a tight Saturn-Chiron square in synastry (under 1 degree), they have been married for 50+ years now. They do have 2 of those longevity aspects, a tight Chiron quincunx Jupiter + also Juno conjunct Chiron (2.30degrees) .... They don't have the clash aspect in the composite though, they even have a grand earth trine with Saturn+Chiron+Venus (allunder2degrees) in the Davison. I think if you have hard Saturn aspects, they are more destructive in the Composite unfortunately.

*bump* for you + Run Around Screaming =)

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Sorcha
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posted July 11, 2012 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, that Chiron square Saturn is a big ouchie. I do wonder if that's the main thing. Thanks for your response Anchi )

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted July 11, 2012 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aww this is an aries-cancer relationship! Would you mind sharing what that was like?

The reason you broke up is composite moon square pluto, which means that one of you felt dominated by the other. Did one of you ever try to be the other's psychotherapist? Sometimes it also just manifests as a very smothering relationship where both people have to stay in touch every second of the day and u cannot let go of each other for even a moment and it feels very suffocating. But usually i have seen it work out in the first way, that one person tries to be the other's psychotherapist and then that person feels dominated and overwhelmed, like the person is being overbearing and telling them what to do and basically trying to change them into something they're not.

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littlecloud
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posted July 11, 2012 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for littlecloud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found this: http://www.astrograph.com/astrology-software/sampleReport.php?report=Lennon_cmpst

Composite Saturn in strong square (within 0.7 degrees) with Chiron

The planetary energies conflict; internal and creative tensions bring rich rewards through effort over time. With this aspect in your composite chart you are likely to be engaged in a relationship in which there is difficulty and also great healing potential around issues of authority. It may be that one or both of you have had painful experiences as a child, when you were forced to submit to an arbitrary authority or limitation of some kind. Perhaps you had the experience of a bad father. The relationship with your father was damaged in some way; it was something you had to get away from, either from his overbearing nature or from his neediness and lack of presence. These wounds can manifest in adult life as an attachment and also great difficulty with authority. For example you may endlessly achieve positions of authority and then have second thoughts about it. As you continually work through whatever arises in your daily interactions with each other, these types of issues may come up for acceptance and eventual healing. Since the powerful associated emotions may lie below the level of your ordinary awareness, your relationship connection may help to bring them to consciousness, and eventually acceptance. As a partnership, you may also wind up working these issues with others. You may be the ones to re-work the structure of society itself in some way, or to become advisors or leaders in the social sphere, perhaps in connection with organizations devoted to new age healing techniques. You may feel the need to redeem yourselves and your families; to restructure what you have internalized from your heritage. A better level of integration is possible, producing a more self-assured and balanced personality, independent from parental influences or even of those of society.

I have the square in composite and the opposition in the synastry, so I too was curious. This interpretation really hits the nail on the head. He helps me heal and realize things in my life that I hadn't before, without even trying. I don't think he is even aware of this affect on me. I seem to do this for him as well when I offer him my opinion/theory on the reasons behind some of the circumstances in his life.

The thing I've come to realize when it comes to Saturn is that the lessons are learned after some time. It's never right away, and they are rewarding lessons when it's something you have worked hard for. Slow, but worth it in the end.

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Anchi
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posted July 12, 2012 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Anchi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's great info littlecloud! I don't think Saturn is doom for relationships. According to Magi my grandparents would not have a chance, and they've been married for 50 years. Saturn is like glue for relationships. There may be hardships, but without Saturn you get nowhere in my opinion. The hard aspects just require work. If two people are willing to work together =

Also the Moon square Pluto that RunAroundScreaming described is very good (i have this with someone). But I don't know how these things work, Sorcha has quite a wide square (Moon-Pluto). That shouldn't be too much of a problem if it's a wide square? What about Neptune as ruler of ASC conjunct MC tightly square AC 1 degree? Disillusions. Started out great, romantic, then you saw that the other person was not as ideal as you first thought, that the 2 of you together somehow just couldn't work in reality? It felt almost too good to be true (like a fantasy)? I don't know. lol

*bump*

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Sorcha
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posted July 12, 2012 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all your responses! And merci beaucoup to Run Around Screaming for responding to my request

I think that a little bit of what everyone said here is true. I am actually a psychotherapist myself and so I do know the dangers of trying to 'therapize' someone, especially your partner. I actually encouraged him to seek therapy since he admitted he needed it and because I did not (and could not) be the person who helped him work through some of his stuff. Supporter though? Yes.

At the beginning it was amazing. I thought for sure this was the man I was spending the rest of my life with (for real) and my intuition has never been wrong about love matters before. So I'm still dealing with that aspect of it even though I know it's over. (How could my intuition, which was so strong be wrong!?!) So perhaps that Neptune really was disillusioning

Originally however, we communicated so well and really had so much love for one another. Someone mentioned to me that his Venus in Aries square Mars in Cancer made him feel as though he wanted to get out once he had "gotten" me. And in fact, when things had progressed past a lot of the difficulties and we were becoming more deeply intimate (this was at the 2.5 year mark and we were living together) that's when he pulled away and remained that way until he asked me to leave.

That was ten months ago and so clearly I'm taking a lot longer to move through it than he is but that's my process I guess. (When I commit, I really commit)

I think sometimes he might have felt dominated by me but then he was also responsible for being passive aggressive and so I think that things just began to clash in the way we related. I personally would have stayed to work things through but he felt he was ready to move on.

I think that Chiron/Saturn quote you left up, little cloud, is very interesting. I felt that way about our relationship - like we could work through it if we allowed ourselves to *both* really open up and have trust and faith. I am pretty comfortable going to the scary places and maybe he wasn't? Maybe he was right to leave. I honestly don't know, but at this point it doesn't really matter because it's about acceptance. I think I was just very curious how our chart looked from an outside perspective. I'm trying to make sure I am holding myself accountable for my part, without demonizing myself for any mistakes I made and for which I have apologized so I can move on in the healthiest way.

Sorry for the long message. I'm having 'one of those weeks' where a lot is coming up for me and I'm trying to sort it through.

Thanks again for all your responses. They are truly appreciated

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littlecloud
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posted July 12, 2012 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for littlecloud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What are the aspects of your natal venus and mars? I ask because I've seen that people with easy aspects like a trine or sextile have a hard time dealing with people who have the square or the opposition, more so the square.

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Dreaming111
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posted July 12, 2012 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dreaming111     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel the same way.
How could I have been so off? Am I still off? What's going on? I've never had this happen before...Actually I never let this happen before.

I'm trying to find similarities between your omposite and my composite.

Could you paste the synastry as well?

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RunAroundScreaming
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posted July 12, 2012 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunAroundScreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Im a cancer too and want to be a psychotherapist, too

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littlecloud
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posted July 13, 2012 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for littlecloud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure how much insight I have but I'm going to point out some of the problem areas I see.

First the house placements. The stellium is in the 3rd house which is great for every day communication but is more friendly and a bit superficial. Not saying this is an altogether bad thing, (there are benefits to this, but don't want to go into heavy detail here) just that it's a small issue that builds on the bigger issues.

The other thing I see is Saturn in the 5th house conjunct mars. Mars in that position is actually pretty nice as long as basic needs are met, working well on a sexual level, and allowing each other room for self-expression without imposing limitations. Here-in lies the problem because it is conjunct Saturn.

From what I've seen in a natal chart, Saturn in the 5th causes the native to get serious in relationships quickly. (can also be old fashioned when it comes to love/romance).

That being said, both planet square Uranus. So what I see from the chart and what you've told us here, is that once you guys literally gave each other less breathing room by moving in together, Uranus kicked in with a need for freedom. Ironically it's also located in a sexual house.

Also, Uranus doesn't get any help via trines/sextiles, making it more difficult. My opinion, is that you guys would still be together if you hadn't lived together. It goes against convention, but then so does Uranus. Or perhaps had you guys had two different bedrooms, it may have helped.

I realize this doesn't really help you now, but it was what I saw, and maybe it can help with closure. I just hope I didn't make it worse for you...I hope you heal.

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Sorcha
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posted July 14, 2012 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Ladies! Sorry, I just saw now that you all posted. I'm off to bed but will reply back to each of you tomorrow

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Sorcha
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posted July 14, 2012 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dreaming, I think we should start a new thread because that not-knowing feeling has made me question my intuition a lot. In addition to composites and synastries, I was thinking that your first meeting chart (if you have one) could be compared to mine and/or the transits going on in our respective charts at the time of your meeting your A versus me meeting my A

I have to wonder if there was something Neptunian going on that somehow messed with my internal intuition system which normally runs really well.

RAS, Yay for Cancer psychotherapists! Do it. I'm only still at the very precipice of my career but I already love it.

littlecloud, You are very sweet. No, you didn't make it worse for me. I tend to reach those low points all on my own - I'm definitely my own worst enemy. I appreciate you looking more deeply in to it. After all, if you don't understand something, you're bound to repeat it and I usually analyze the crap out of every ended relationship to make sure I am being accountable for my past actions and knowing what I want/need to change.

I actually agree with you about the Saturn/Mars aspect. I've been giving those two the stink eye every time I've looked at this chart over the past two years. I think that because they do square Uranus, we had the challenge/opportunity to move towards a more Uranian way of being and maybe think outside the box (and take action outside the box) - especially since Uranus is loosely conjunct composite NN in the 8th. Like we were supposed to be changing drastically (which in some ways we did) but still managing that Mars/Saturn conjunction at the same time. And really, that was one of our biggest challenges.

Mars never got to be Mars for very long before Saturn swooped in and Saturn just wanted some order and some manners but Mars would have not of it for very long so things were never truly stable at the core.

I'm not sure about the living together or not. We moved in together about 2 months after we met (!!) We both literally thought, well this is it - we're in this for life. (Okay, well I believed it, but he did say it. Who can know how another truly feels?) We had so many problems at one point that we wondered if we would have stayed together if we hadn't lived together. Hm. So that I am not sure of, but as for the rest of it, I think you are bang on.

It's funny because in my Venus Return this year I have Saturn conjunct Mars in the 5th house and when I saw it, I cringed because I feel like that energy is not done with me yet.

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Sorcha
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posted July 14, 2012 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PS. to little cloud, I have no aspects between my Venus and Mars actually. Or if I do it is a minor aspect

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littlecloud
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posted July 15, 2012 04:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for littlecloud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Then I think it still stands that you would have difficulty in a relationship with the square between the two.

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Sorcha
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posted July 15, 2012 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Agreed. I guess I have a lot of extra red flags in my astro catalogue now

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Sorcha
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posted July 15, 2012 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sorcha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DP

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littlecloud
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posted July 15, 2012 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for littlecloud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You may be on to something in regards to Saturn/Mars energy not being done with you yet.

Moving in together after just knowing each other for only 2 months might have been a lot. I understand why you did it though. Making the right choices don't always seem as easy as you would think they are. My advice to you for future relationships of any kind, don't add 'red flags' to some astro list. Yes there are hard aspects that can make dealing with someone difficult, but it will be different with each person. Not just because their charts are different but the level of maturity.

For example I dated a guy with a Mars/Uranus square and this is an aspect that lends to an explosive temper, a need for action, and pushes the native to do something when bored to make action happen just for the heck of it. I immediately noticed the explosive temper and just chalked it up to the aspect, but what I didn't associate with it until much later where my observations that he would look for fights. With me, with anyone. He would want any excuse to get into a fight. I had never before met a person that liked looking for a reason to be angry, hateful and just bad. Since then that's always been a major red flag to me. But just yesterday when I was looking at the charts of two other men, both martial artists, the aspect made sense, but the major difference between these two men and my ex, was that they dealt with it in a healthy manner. One of them is one of the most easy going, chill, laid back, soft spoken men I know but he's a muay thai fighter, and he knocks people in about 10 seconds or less. He has a Mars/Uranus conjunction in the 12th, which is pretty scary, all that tension hidden up. But the great thing is that he releases it in a healthy manner, by teaching muay thai to other people and fighting in a ring with rules and regulations. The other man which is the founder of the school even said that he doesn't go out specifically to avoid getting into a fight (after I told him about mars/uranus). My point is that all of these men have this need to fight yet 2 of them handle it with maturity and that is what matters, how they deal with the aspect not just the aspect itself.

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Dreaming111
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posted July 19, 2012 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dreaming111     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorcha can you please post your transits back on that thread. I finally found the time!! yay! lol I did lots of digging to find the exact time.

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