posted October 14, 2013 01:53 AM            

I've become convinced the root of most issues in this complex relationship stem from the 8H and 12H synastric overlays and a powerful configuration.

Synastry:

Composite:

posted October 14, 2013 08:50 AM            

what is your question?

As for the overlays, there might play other things into it as well, but jsut focusing on overlays, you have BOTH Moon in each other`s Water houses (8th and 12th). I am not surprised.

I sometimes wonder how Mr Sag feels with my Moon and Jupiter in HIS 12th house, (and my Mars-ASC in his 8th house).

EDIT:

As for your synastry I see some interesting aspects through houserulerships (and of course planetary as well; Mars-Pluto alone would make for intensity that is driving you insane, coupled with the endless sea of emotions coming from Moon-Neptune, but hard to grasp, in 12th house. ).

Your 5th house ruler is conjunct his Pluto, which in turn rules his 3rd house.
Not only is that intense attraction for sure, but this intensity might be channelled or expressed through 3rd house matters; if it goes well, intensely creative. If it doesn´t, communication or the lack of becomes a minefield.

posted October 14, 2013 01:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluejay:
Your synastry chart with this guy is so similar to mine, I'm blown away! For one thing, you were born a few weeks before me. I have Scorpio sun, Libra moon conjunct Pluto 1 degree, and Libra Venus, but most of our placements are very close. The guy that I cannot get out of my mind is a Gemini sun born in 1969, I think a few years younger than your guy. His Aries Venus opposes my Moon/Pluto, and his moon is in Leo around 20 degrees. We have the same kite pattern, with the opposition point being at 19 deg Aries. He also has three planets and his south node clustered around my 8th house cusp. On top of that his Venus and moon both trine my Neptune and Mars in Sagittarius, which is also where his Mars is. I fell in lust at first sight with him over 8 years ago. The look he gave me the first time our eyes met took my breath away!!! Unfortunately, I was taken and now that I'm single, he's married. Him and his wife have been on the brink of divorce, and if he didn't own a business, house and land I think he would already be divorced. I told him I couldn't have any contact with him as long as he is married, and it is killing me not to call him. I have faith that if we were meant to be together, that it will happen when the time is right. I feel imprisoned by my feelings for him, but I cannot simply move on, the magnetic pull towards him is so powerful. It's been a very painful situation to go through.

Oddly enough, I'm just coming out of a relationship with a Cancer sun, Aries moon. His moon opposed my Moon/Pluto at almost the same degree.

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I saw that in another thread and thought, 'damn, are Bluejay and I born closeish to each other?' That's really cool, for one.

As to your experiences - wow! I'm very sorry to hear this. To be honest, I'm the married one. That's the 'complicated' part. I met my costar a month after my engagement, and it was very intense from the start, especially on his end. I held it all back for awhile not wanting to complicate the show, given all of the strange nuances and coincidences going on.

My dual career out here in Hollywood is as an alternative lifestyle counselor / sex therapist, on top of developing my first one-hour drama series. (I'm a creative who's gotta pay the bills.)

About 6 months later, at the point which he said it was affecting our work, (that still kinda gets me, as I don't recall him ever indicating that) I decided to tell my fiance so that we could negotiate a relationship. We were mostly open and 'monogamish', as they say, and since he's submissive, he wanted to go for the whole polyamorous relationship experience. Considering my parents' marriage was also open for a decade of my life, it's not unfamiliar to me.

This is where, I swear, we get into the karma, though. I swear that all of this is unresolved karma dealing with issues regarding possessiveness, manipulation, control, and what to regard as one's principles (he's a Taurus NNode).

Long story short, he became the first ever dominant I ever had - or had wanted. Something was awakened in my soul I didn't even know existed. Then, due to his principles being all in a jumble, he suddenly couldn't continue (but even THAT's a longer story). I was, understandably, wrecked.

I got married for practical reasons, and everyone's been on the same page the entire time.

The breakup led to the sort of drama-filled month in which we actually tried to help each other through our own breakup and heartbreak - how bizarre is that? I just don't know how else to describe it. Except there were flowers and dramatically dedicated performances and slammed doors and - sometimes - in front of a group of people. (Oh, good job keeping things discreet.) Ay, yi, yi.

Four months later, after being in kind of a daze (somehow, I walked down the aisle), I sent him an email expecting, genuinely, nothing in return. I was simply explaining that it was too damned difficult to continue a personal relationship (basically an affectionate friendship) after what we had, and I was going to need to limit our contact to working on the show. It wasn't an angle I was playing, I wasn't manipulating, I was feeling very raw and broken; I needed closure and to begin healing. I'd already locked away that other part of me - I needed to grieve its loss.

This next part is the kind of plot point I'd put in one of my stories; hell, I might've done something similar. But whether it was inspired by this or not, I can't remember.

He writes me back in less than an hour stating how that's an unacceptable arrangement, and, well, he's just going to have to bend on this one. So, from that point on, we would only negotiate in the (unlikely) event that he was getting married - which is increasingly unlikely.

Would that possibly change if we were able to get things finally and fully sorted out? That, due to our relationship, he would finally be able to have one? Maybe. That's tough to say.

His mother was diagnosed with cancer 5 minutes after he sent the email.

Not kidding!

It was like, full-steam ahead, with some rather choice bits (that Aries can certainly be forward when it wants to) - with an email 5 minutes later explaining, and well, 'that will certainly kill a mood.'

My husband, on the other hand, watches us with amusement. And cites that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Data attempted to have a girlfriend. There ... are days that ... it's not far off. But that's only when he's shut off from himself and staying in a schizoid state (long story, but we're both schizoid).

The thing I'd LOVE for you guys to tell me about is what's up with our HORRENDOUS TIMING?

While our relationship was rather in the background, (in 2012), I tried to resolve a past aborted connexion with, honestly, my twin soul. Sigh. The fact the man endured that ... truly speaks volumes to me.

But he's been dealing with a poor financial situation, his elderly mother's fragile health, (not from the cancer; she was able to undergo a single round of chemo, surgery, and is, as they say, 'clear') and Hollywood's increasing debt, and inability for working actors to find work - regardless of their reputation.

So, that's been our problem.

Timing.

In March, we suddenly (he prompted it) started talking about a physical relationship again - or why we weren't. He was ... so different. God, I hadn't seen him like that in ... years.

Sigh. THAT's a longer discussion. Maybe it applies here. Maybe it doesn't. But it didn't last. I needed a bit of time - to heal from my last relationship. Just a month or so, when my husband flat out said to us both in May that we should be involved again. ( ... awkward.) By July, his life was one big crisis state again. And ... that 'way' I saw him in March again ... was gone.

And ... here we are.

We're trying. We're always trying. But it's VERY trying when someone is completely detached from their emotions - and only reattaching during the short periods in which they're with someone else. Me. Since we don't get to see each other there often, (only once a week, at most) it's always breaking the same old ground, over and over and over. It just never seems to reach the point of planting.

Sigh. I'm tired of always breaking the same old ground.

Anyhow. I've 'ranted' enough. Heh.

posted October 14, 2013 01:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
As for the overlays, there might play other things into it as well, but just focusing on overlays, you have BOTH Moon in each other`s Water houses (8th and 12th). I am not surprised.

I sometimes wonder how Mr Sag feels with my Moon and Jupiter in HIS 12th house, (and my Mars-ASC in his 8th house).

EDIT:

As for your synastry I see some interesting aspects through houserulerships (and of course planetary as well; Mars-Pluto alone would make for intensity that is driving you insane, coupled with the endless sea of emotions coming from Moon-Neptune, but hard to grasp, in 12th house. ).

Your 5th house ruler is conjunct his Pluto, which in turn rules his 3rd house.
Not only is that intense attraction for sure, but this intensity might be channelled or expressed through 3rd house matters; if it goes well, intensely creative. If it doesn´t, communication or the lack of becomes a minefield.

---

Ugh, I know. Both Moon houses. And you drew my attention to the IC/ASC. Now I'm seeing all kinds of such connexions.

I would certainly agree that it's channelled wonderfully through creativity - good lord, after a point, it's hard to see what was, and what we've inspired. But everyone agrees that it's taken the project to a whole new, powerful, level, and our chemistry is incredible.

posted October 14, 2013 01:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I sometimes wonder how Mr Sag feels with my Moon and Jupiter in HIS 12th house, (and my Mars-ASC in his 8th house).

---

Mars-ASC in the 8H? Oooh, buddy. Had that with my first. Wow. What an undeniable draw. As I joke, it's like we were the first humans inventing this thing called 'sex'.

Now, Jupiter in the 12H SHOULD really lessen the blow - right? Moon in the 12H, on the other hand ... oh, dear; are your emotions getting all mixed and jumbled and going into a black hole? Do you feel like he's just not 'feeling' your relating to him?

I certainly often feel that our regular signals gets confused; I misread his intention, back off, then he backs off - and that's that.

posted October 14, 2013 02:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Ugh, I know. Both Moon houses. And you drew my attention to the IC/ASC. Now I'm seeing all kinds of such connexions.

I would certainly agree that it's channelled wonderfully through creativity - good lord, after a point, it's hard to see what was, and what we've inspired. But everyone agrees that it's taken the project to a whole new, powerful, level, and our chemistry is incredible.

Now, you said my 5H Ruler ... isn't that Saturn in Libra? But his Pluto is 18 Virgo ... are you using some fancy new method I don't know, Ceri? ;p

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Oh I thought you were the one in the inner ring. Anyway so it is his 5th ruler conjunct your 3rd house ruler Pluto then.

posted October 14, 2013 02:40 PM            

"What an undeniable draw. As I joke, it's like we were the first humans inventing this thing called 'sex'. "
LOL

Well, we don`t know each other that well.
But at least I feel a draw, and I guess he must, too, subconsciously at least; I mean popping up in my physical proximity once or twice can or might be coincidental, But he manages to everytime. We also manage to everytime almost - literally- bump into each other.
Like there is some energetical pull influencing our physical environment so that it magnetizes us to each other, but somehow we manage to blatantly ignore each other nevertheless.
lol

"Moon in the 12H, on the other hand ... oh, dear; are your emotions getting all mixed and jumbled and going into a black hole? Do you feel like he's just not 'feeling' your relating to him?"
That might be.

Well, I guess it might be more being the black hole to him; for me, surprisingly I have never been more in touch with my emotions than when he is close (my Moon is unaspected except for a quinkunx to my Saturn), though it is connected through parallels/ contraparallels with URanus, Pluto and Juno.

Interestingly his last girlfriend had a bunch of planets in Aquarius (including her Moon which actually is conjunct mine), and all oft hem, her Sun, Moon, MErcury, Venus and Jupiter all fell into his 12th house.
I guess you must have a Pisces ASC to like that.

From his perspective I might be Neptune personified, or actually embodying Neptunian evasiveness.
My Neptune is not only exactly conjunct his Mercury (ruler of his 3rd, 4th and 7t house), but also squares his Mars-Jupiter-conjunction tightly (rulers of 1st and 10th house).

So black hole might be not so far off. lol

Actually it reminded me of Black MOon Lilith, I am using the true one, and ours are exactly opposite each other, with mine being conjunct his PRiapus on his SN. Made me really giggle when I saw that.

"I certainly often feel that our regular signals gets confused; I misread his intention, back off, then he backs off - and that's that."
Yeah, a lot of backing off. I relate to that. But honestly it was fun so far, but slowly these "games" get boring.
And you don`t want a Sagittarius getting bored. lol

posted October 14, 2013 02:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Oh I thought you were the one in the inner ring. Anyway so it is his 5th ruler conjunct your 3rd house ruler Pluto then.

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Oh! That sounds right. Yes, I thought, 'unless she means him. She must mean him.'

posted October 14, 2013 07:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Well, we don`t know each other that well.
But at least I feel a draw, and I guess he must, too, subconsciously at least; I mean popping up in my physical proximity once or twice can or might be coincidental, But he manages to everytime. We also manage to everytime almost - literally- bump into each other.
Like there is some energetical pull influencing our physical environment so that it magnetizes us to each other, but somehow we manage to blatantly ignore each other nevertheless.

---

Oh, cripes, I get that from the Mars-Pluto and 8H activity alone! And, yes, it's even weirder when you DO know each other that well, because then you're just both somehow trying too hard to ignore it and pretend it's not happening. The only response to that is the obvious one: why? Seriously, why? Oh, the 12H is madness. Toss the 8H in there, and you've got yourself a very confusing cocktail, indeed. Magnetised and yet, 'huh? What? Oh, nothing to see here, move along.' Yeeesh.

quote:

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Well, I guess it might be more being the black hole to him; for me, surprisingly I have never been more in touch with my emotions than when he is close.

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Yes, that happens to us, too. Caught red-handed! Showing feelings! Of an almost human nature! :horror:

quote:

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From his perspective I might be Neptune personified, or actually embodying Neptunian evasiveness.
My Neptune is not only exactly conjunct his Mercury (ruler of his 3rd, 4th and 7t house), but also squares his Mars-Jupiter-conjunction tightly (rulers of 1st and 10th house). So black hole might be not so far off. lol.

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See, that's what I wonder. Who's really evading? Are we evading, but we don't realise we're doing it - and then they do it? If I yank the string - will I find it attached to me? Heh.

quote:

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Actually it reminded me of Black MOon Lilith, I am using the true one, and ours are exactly opposite each other, with mine being conjunct his PRiapus on his SN. Made me really giggle when I saw that.

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Oh, good lord. :laugh: That makes me wonder now, because our BMLs are opposite ... and then what the heck would that even mean? Now, you're saying the true one ... is that the h-something or other or the one that's in the drop-down objects menu on Astrodienst?

quote:

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Yeah, a lot of backing off. I relate to that. But honestly it was fun so far, but slowly these "games" get boring.
And you don`t want a Sagittarius getting bored. lol

---

posted October 15, 2013 02:35 AM            

Is it possible I'm off base here? Is all of the otherwise non-platonic energy being channelled into the 3H? Was it a fluke we were involved at all? Or is it just the chemistry or compatibility isn't enough to withstand complicated circumstances?

I know he affects me on such a deep level, and he's certainly said the same in the past. But maybe things changed in the last year, which he just doesn't want to tell me. He swears I'm being paranoid (augh, 12H!) but all I see is us not returning to the level of physical intimacy we had.

So I have to wonder. Despite its intensity and the way it all feels ... is it just meant to ultimately be platonic? God, I think that'd drive me insane!

posted October 15, 2013 11:37 AM            

To sum it up, no I don`t think you are meant to be platonic.

There is too much "flirry energy". Platonic affections are calm, serene, peaceful.
An union of mind that does neither stir the emotions nor the bodies.
There is balance and peace and contentment, but no pushing of red buttons, triggering of hidden devices that blow up inside, no rabbitholes to fall into so to speak.

Just union of the minds.

Is that what you feel? Just a creative union of minds?
No passion, no pain, no desire?

We both know how the honest answer will be.

However, sometimes when a passion cannot be consummated or expressed within a realtionship, it can be sublimated and may appear platonic on the surface.
But I honestly don`t think it really will be truely platonic underneath.