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Author Topic:   Kiss The First Amendment Goodbye!
Randall
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Posts: 4782
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 14, 2003 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PRESS RELEASE - PRESS RELEASE- PRESS RELEASE

BOOK BANNED BY GOVERNMENT AND SCHIFF ENJOINED FROM SPEAKING

As U.S. Forces seek to bring democracy to Iraq, the U.S. Government is seeking to eliminate it here. On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, Federal District Court Judge, Lloyd D. George granted the Government's Motion to ban Irwin Schiff from selling and distributing his book The Federal Mafia: How The Government Illegally Imposes and Unlawfully Collects Income Taxes. The Mafia, first published in 1990, has sold over 75,000 copies and can be found in most libraries, including the UNLV law library. The banning of Schiff's book was based on a hearing in which no Government witness testified under oath or could be cross-examined by Schiff. Schiff noted that Judge George banned the book without even reading it, and apparently saw it for the first time at the hearing.

Schiff characterized the Government's claims, on which the Temporary Restraining Order was based, as a "tissue of lies from start to finish. I really look forward to cross-examining any Government witness that is prepared to testify under oath, at the preliminary hearing, that even one phrase in The Federal Mafia is not legally correct." Judge George banned the book, because it contained specific instruction on how to file Schiff's "zero" return, a type of return that Schiff himself has filed for over 10 years, without legal consequences. Schiff is still open and operating his Las Vegas business, Freedom Books and is free to sell his other books; such as How Anyone Can Stop Paying Income Taxes, a 1982 bestseller and The Great Income Tax Hoax published in 1985. Mr. Schiff is the author of several other great books on the economy, inflation, the Federal Reserve, Social Security. Schiff is in the process of writing his new book entitled The Repeal of the Income Tax: And How a Criminal Judiciary Continues to Enforce It. That book, said Schiff, will attempt to show why and how the current income tax, passed in 1913, was repealed by Congress when it adopted the 1954 Code. It will also reveal the "lunacy of the law, as 'law' is practiced in the United States," said Schiff.

Besides banning Schiff's book, Judge George's Order even bars Schiff from lecturing on the income tax. As a result, Schiff had to call off his 2-Day Seminar-Workshop which was scheduled to be held at the Hotel San Remo Conference Center on March 29th & 30th. When Schiff's attorney, Noel Spaid of San Diego County, California asked the Government's attorney, Evan Davis, if Schiff "could lecture on the history of the income tax", he responded, "Attorney to attorney, this is too ripe for him." Ms. Spaid told Schiff that this was lawyer talk that meant that Schiff could not give such a lecture without violating Judge George's Order.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please visit Irwin Schiff’s website: www.paynoincometax.com
For Interviews, please call 702-385-6920
Or: 702-457-4851
FAX: 702-385-6917

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted April 14, 2003 11:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*crosses arms, taps foot and gives "i told you so" look*

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theFajita3
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posted April 14, 2003 11:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh no

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food is the only art that nourishes!

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted April 15, 2003 12:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wait till they try to ram Patriot Act II through..

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Rainbow~
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 12:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OHMIGOD!!! RANDALL!!!

This is too, too frightening....

I have a cousin who has not paid income tax for years, and is not in jail, cuz he says this is true....*sigh*....

What next.....book burning?????

Luv,
Rainbow

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Pegesus
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 09:51 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have always suspected THIS is the REAL reason Bill Cooper was killed.

He was suing the goverment for fruadulent practices pertaining to the income tax. As I recall the trial was set for January and he was killed in November.

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 11:11 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd be very happy to host a copy of the text on all my webspaces.

Once you get a book out in the open on the 'net it cannot be surpressed because it is simple copied so many times it becomes geometrically harder to stamp out and shut down the servers.

He wouldnt make any money out of the book but at least everyone would have a chance to read it then.

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trippysht
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 01:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow

doens't really surprise me though

which is unfortunate in itself

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trillian
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 15, 2003 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yup, no doubt book-burning is on the way...lots of folks were burning CDs when the Dixie Chicks dared to express an opinion contrary to 'current popular opinion.'
Land of the free? Try burning a flag. Or burning a joint. Or hey, these days, just try having a political opinion contrary to that of the Bush regime! Just ask Susan Sarandon...
Don't mean to sound cynical, but things like this scare me. Please don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm in the western world, where we have more freedoms than other places. But our myopic views and fear of the Middle East are playing right into the hands of the conservatives who would like to chip away at things like Amendments...*sigh*

As long as forums like this exist, and men like him exist who are willing to fight...truth will find its way. Somedays, it's just harder than others.

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Carlo
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posted April 15, 2003 01:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
or ask Susan's hubby...

http://commondreams.org/views03/0412-09.htm

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trippysht
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 01:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i didnt know sussan and tim were married!! how bout that

ps i just luuuuv tim robbins- GO TIM, TELL 'IM LIKE IT IS!

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 15, 2003 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In Congress now and the only way to break the grip of the IRS and the IRS tax court on American citizens. Preferred over the "flat tax" which is just a different "income tax" that leaves the IRS intact.

Wonder why you haven't heard about it before? Well powerful interest groups are against it. Attorneys, accountants, bookeepers, government workers and especially the IRS and of course all the communists are against the idea of a tax that isn't heavy and progressive and based on income.

This is a consumption based tax. You don't buy, you don't pay. And you get all the tax paid on necessities of life refunded.

Fair Tax Act of 2003


Summary of HR 25

Imposes a 23% (tax-inclusive) sales tax on the purchase of new goods and services in the U.S.

Lets workers keep their entire paycheck and retirees keep their entire pension.

Abolishes the IRS and ends all audits of individual taxpayers.

Replaces the federal income tax. Frees individuals from ever filing a tax return again.

Replaces all payroll taxes including Social Security and Medicare taxes. Current Social Security and Medicare benefits would not change.

Replaces corporate and self-employment taxes.

Eliminates all hidden federal taxes.

Provides a universal rebate equal to the sales taxes paid on essential goods and services to ensure that no American pays taxes on necessities.

Replaces all estate, gift, and capital gains taxes.

Dramatically lowers tax rates for low- and middle-income Americans.

Closes all tax loopholes.

Brings accountability to tax policy.

Lets American-made products compete fairly.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.25:

jwhop


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trillian
Newflake

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Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 15, 2003 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, Susan and Tim aren't really married, are they? Just "shackin' up," as a certain right-wing talk show hostess refers to it! LOL!! But they are an awesome two-some...
and his letter is pitch-perfect, very eloquent. Bravo to Tim.

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QueenofSheeba
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 06:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T here are actually quite a few books banned int he US. Most of them are banned for comical reasons, but some of them are serious...

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 4782
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 15, 2003 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds great to me, Jwhop. Let the IRS go into private practice or get real jobs--like flipping burgers at Mickey D's!

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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pearly
unregistered
posted April 15, 2003 11:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree on that too. jwhop, sounds good to me! I wouldn't be upset to see the self-employment tax vanish...

Wow, it is upsetting that books have been banned in the US.... I had no idea. The First Amendment is so beautiful... oh no.

Yes, Harpyr, the Patriot Act deux sounds terrible too. I wrote my congressman about it...I never do that, but...

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 15, 2003 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Randall

Sounds great to me too. I can even go along with those IRS folks flipping burgers. Anything that keeps those bloodsuckers away from the cash registers is OK with me

So, are you going to twist your Representative's arm (neck) to support the National Sales Tax and Repeal the 16th Amendment? You know the 16th would have to be repealed or we would wind up with both an income and national sales tax.

jwhop

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 4782
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 16, 2003 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose that "officially" we would have to appeal it; however, in actuality, it was never properly ratified, was it?

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 16, 2003 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Randall

Your comment:
"I suppose that "officially" we would have to appeal it; however, in actuality, it was never properly ratified, was it?"

True to the last drop But don't hold your breath waiting for anyone from the Government to admit they've been collecting income taxes under a law that doesn't exist.

That's the reason the IRS states our tax system is based on "self assessment" and "voluntary compliance." That which is "voluntary, cannot be "compulsory."

Hey, what can the IRS do when people insist on their continued status as taxpayers? Just take the money and grin.

Here's Article 1 Section 2 of the Tennessee Constitution.

Sec. 2. That government bring [probably should read "being"] instituted for the common benefit, the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
http://www.harbornet.com/rights/tennesse.txt

jwhop

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Randall
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Posts: 4782
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 16, 2003 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very true, but there's so many court cases now stating that tax returns are required that it should be easy to dismiss any tax trials on the basis that compelled testimony (the tax return in question) cannot be presented as evidence. No tax return, no case.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 16, 2003 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall

You said:
"Very true, but there's so many court cases now stating that tax returns are required that it should be easy to dismiss any tax trials on the basis that compelled testimony (the tax return in question) cannot be presented as evidence. No tax return, no
case"

However most prosecutions have been "willful failure to file a tax return" cases.

The courts have also ruled that supplying information to the IRS is "testimony" under oath within the meaning of the 5th Amendment.

Since no one can be compelled to "be a witness against themself" and the signature line on tax returns states the filer is swearing under oath (penalty of perjury) to the truthfulness of all the statements on the tax return, no one can be compelled to file a tax return on that basis; it's considered a waiver of one's 5th Amendment rights to do so. No one can be compelled to volunteer or waive any rights under the US Constitution.

Further, the IRS and the courts have upheld the idea that unsigned tax returns are considered to be void, as if no tax return was filed at all.

Willful failure to file a tax return is a misdemeanor but filing a tax return that contains material flaws, namely under reporting income or overstating deductions is a felony called "tax evasion"

jwhop

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theFajita3
unregistered
posted April 16, 2003 06:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what books are banned in the US??

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food is the only art that nourishes!

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N_wEvil
unregistered
posted April 16, 2003 07:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
heh, try the whole DeCSS fiasco when the MPAA tried to ban every website that printed a 5 line PERL script that could decrpt DVD's

you know they jailed the russian cryptographer for 6 months for that? they had to release him in the end, of course, but yep....its not really news.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 4782
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 16, 2003 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True, Jwhop. I wasn't clear; I was talking about prosecutions for tax evasion. Leona Helmsley's lawyer should have had her case thrown out, since she thought returns were required to be filed, and there are many court cases stating that. I find it amusing (or maybe not so) that if I were to go to trial for any other crime and ask to see what law I had broken, the judge would have no problem showing me. But if I were to ask to see the law requiring me to file, they would rant and rave but present no law.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 16, 2003 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall

It's instructive to know that not filing a tax return at all is a misdemeanor but filing a false return is a felony.

The only way that could possibly make sense is if there is no requirement to file a return at all, but once having volunteered and identified yourself as a taxpayer, filing a false return under penalty of perjury permits the Government to hold you accountable for every statement on the return and lower the boom on you if you've lied.

The Internal Revenue Code, Title 26 US is all about taxpayers. So, who is a taxpayer? One who volunteers to self assess themself, file a return and pay the tax.

I agree a judge would be enraged if you asked the court to recite the law you had broken. The answer to the charge is "I'm not a taxpayer as defined in Title 26 US." But, don't hold your breath, they're going to try you anyway, having gone beyond the point of no return. Hell, you could even ask the judge to recuse himself/herself since he has a stake in the outcome, benefiting directly from payments of the income tax, he/she, has a conflict of interest. Amusing thought.

jwhop

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