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Topic: Now What?
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juniperb Moderator Posts: 856 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 11:09 AM
With Saddam captured, what type of trial would you like to see? At the Hauge, an Iraqi trial et al. I`m pondering this mys-elf and 'think' at this point the Iraqi people should have that privilege. I heard today that they have a chief justice (I believe thats what they called him) that can seek outside guidance. If so, that could include the U.S. in determining the outcome of the trial. Thank God/dess he`s finally captured!! juniperb ------------------ If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
ozonefiller Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Aug 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 11:33 AM
Yeah,I can see it now,they'll be having on one of those TV political joke shows stating that they captured him and shows Charlie Manson's face instead No,Charlie didn't have that many people killed.
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 11:46 AM
I doubt most Iraqis would be satisfied with a trial of Saddam in an International Court.More likely is a trial in Iraq in an Iraqi court where the evidence of his crimes are readily available along with Iraqi witnesses who have first hand knowledge. I doubt the US will be directly involved except perhaps to get the Iraqi justice system up and running and an Iraqi government in place. I think a trial for Saddam is not going to happen anytime soon. He will be interrogated relentlessly about details of weapons systems, connections to other terrorist organizations and of course who the players are in the terrorist attacks on Iraqi citizens, the UN and coalition forces inside Iraq, how they're funded and where they are likely to be found. Right now, you're hearing that Saddam isn't cooperating but I wouldn't bet on that information being more than a smokescreen to lull those who are still on the loose into a sense of false security. Counter terrorism operations are of necessity secretive in nature. IP: Logged |
ozonefiller Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Aug 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 11:55 AM
The element of surprise!IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 856 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 12:10 PM
jwhop, that makes complete sense to me. The Iraqi people need and deserve this trial. I don`t see a true purpose for an international trial. I`m also quite certain the denial of co operation is a smokescreen. I personally believe Saddam is weak enough to negotiate and give up his terriost squads. It will be an interesting play out! juniperb ------------------ If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 02:09 PM
I think there will be a lot of people and some nations attempting to Internationalize Saddam's trial. To avoid the death penalty for Saddam and for nations who violated the UN embargo on weapons sales to Iraq and oil purchases from Iraq to attempt to control the testimony and information that will undoubtedly come out in a trial in Iraq.IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 856 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 04:36 PM
jwhop, I`m going to use Syria as my example. If Saddam says he had w.m.d. and he shipped them over the border to Syria, would that bring Bush to call for war against Syria asap? Is so, do you think the U.N. would support him this time? juniperb ------------------ If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 15, 2003 06:15 PM
juniperb, in Syria, I think you've picked the best possible example. There's already a lot of suspicion that some or all of Saddam's biological and chemical weapons crossed the border into Syria.If Saddam named Syria as the receiver of his WMD, I don't think the President would immediately go public with the info. I think there would be a very quiet, straight to the point conversation with Bashar al-Assad President of Syria to give him a chance to "volunteer" to give them up. Perhaps they would magically appear and be discovered by coalition forces in Iraq. Strange as it seems to some people, the UN did support the coalition in going into Iraq. There was an unanimous 15-0 vote by the Security Council on Resolution 1441 threatening "serious consequences" for Iraq if Iraq didn't, among other things, immediately account for all their weapons of mass destruction. When that vote was taken, it was well understood by everyone that the "serious consequences" meant a military invasion of Iraq. When the troop buildup began before the invasion, France, Germany, Russia and China pretended the "serious consequences" they envisioned was a complete embargo of toilet paper bound for Iraq or something equally as debilitating for the country. I don't know if the President would go to the UN again or if the UN Security Council members would support military action against Syria. The UN is not a very credible force in world events. jwhop
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Oxychick unregistered
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posted December 15, 2003 07:16 PM
I agree with you Juniperb. Jwhop, as always, thanks for the wealth of info.
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juniperb Moderator Posts: 856 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 16, 2003 11:34 AM
Thanks jwop, if there are w.m.d., I pray your reply would, in fact, be the end result.Is Bashar al-Assad a trusted and worthy leader? juniperb
------------------ If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 856 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 16, 2003 11:39 AM
Also, when it came down to brass tacks, that 15-0 vote was null ( t.p. embargo . ) Do you think there will be a change in the wording of Security Council on Resolution 1441 or any counterparts to make clear 't.p. embargos' are not the serious consequences implied. IE no more implying ,but consequences spelled out in accurate and concise wording? No holes to wiggle thru. juniperb ------------------ If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 17, 2003 12:15 AM
Indications are that Bashar al-Assad is a more reasonable leader than his father was. Still, Syria is fractured along political and religious lines much as Iraq.If Saddam's biological and chemical weapons are in Syria and Saddam spills the beans, I don't think the fact there are about 150,000 fully equipped and battle hardened American troops with air bases and air support next door will escape his notice. Nor has it escaped the Presidents attention that there were terrorist offices open in downtown Damascus. I'm pretty sure there have been discussions with Syria about the terrorist activities directed out of those offices and the problem Syria would face if they were assisted in obtaining chemical and/or biological weapons. I doubt the President is going back to the UN to reform Resolution 1441. We seem to be past the point of what constitutes "serious consequences" for Iraq. Sitting here tonight, it occurred to me that if the President had turned over the responsibility for Iraq to the UN as many were urging after the major fighting was over, Saddam would be back in power in Iraq right now. All it took for the UN to flee the country was one attack on the UN offices in Baghdad. IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 856 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 17, 2003 09:27 AM
Thanks for the insight jwhop. I hadn`t put the U.N. fleeing in that perspective. Frightening thought isn`t it. I still feel the U.N. needs more concise wording for future resolutions.I`m probably hammering on the subject but I was/am shocked at the lose wording leaving the escape holes for U.N. countries. As always, I pray history teachs us and this was a horrifying lesson/experience. We had a 19 year old MI. man lose his life this week guarding a gas station . Without dipping into my political onion, I will state I have no empathy for Saddam or his henchmen! Again, thank you for your insight!! juniperb ------------------ If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |