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Author Topic:   Iraqis Drag Four Corpses Through Streets
proxieme
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posted March 31, 2004 09:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mar 31, 9:32 AM (ET)

By SAMEER N. YACOUB


FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - Jubilant residents dragged the charred corpses of four foreigners - one a woman, at least one an American - through the streets Wednesday and hanged them from the bridge spanning the Euphrates River. Five American troops died in a roadside bombing nearby.

The four foreigners were killed in a rebel ambush of their SUVs in Fallujah, a Sunni Triangle city about 35 miles west of Baghdad and scene of some of the worst violence on both sides of the conflict since the beginning of the American occupation a year ago.

It was reminiscent of the 1993 scene in Somalia, when a mob dragged the corpse of a U.S. soldier through the streets of Mogadishu, eventually leading to the American withdrawal from the African nation.

In one of the bloodiest days for the U.S. military this year, five American troops died when their military vehicle ran over a bomb in a separate incident 12 miles to the northwest, among the reed-lined roads running through some of Iraq's richest farmland.


Residents said the bomb attack occurred in Malahma, 12 miles northwest of Fallujah, where anti-U.S. insurgents are active. U.S. Marines operate in the area, but it was unclear whether the slain troops were Marines.

Chanting "Fallujah is the graveyard of Americans," residents cheered after the grisly assault on two four-wheel-drive civilian vehicles, which left both in flames. Others chanted, "We sacrifice our blood and souls for Islam."

Associated Press Television News pictures showed one man beating a charred corpse with a metal pole. Others tied a yellow rope to a body, hooked it to a car and dragged it down the main street of town. Two blackened and mangled corpses were hung from a green iron bridge across the Euphrates.

"The people of Fallujah hanged some of the bodies on the old bridge like slaughtered sheep," resident Abdul Aziz Mohammed said. Some of the corpses were dismembered, he said.

Beneath the bodies, a man held a printed sign with a skull and crossbones and the phrase "Fallujah is the cemetery for Americans."

APTN showed the charred remains of three slain men. Some were wearing flak jackets, said resident Safa Mohammedi.

One resident displayed what appeared to be dog tags taken from one body. Residents also said there were weapons in the targeted cars. APTN showed one American passport near a body and a U.S. Department of Defense identification card belonging to another man.

U.S. military officials in Washington said the situation was still confused but they did not think the victims were American soldiers and believed the SUVs were not American military vehicles.

Witnesses said the two vehicles were attacked with small arms fire and rocket propelled grenades.

Hours after the attack, the city was quiet. No U.S. troops or Iraqi police were seen in the area.

Fallujah is in the so-called Sunni Triangle, where support for Saddam Hussein was strong and rebels often carry out attacks against American forces.

In nearby Ramadi, insurgents threw a grenade at a government building and Iraqi security forces returned fire Wednesday, witnesses said. It was not clear if there were casualties.

Also in Ramadi, a roadside bomb exploded near a U.S. convoy, witnesses said. U.S. officials in Baghdad could not confirm the attack.

On Tuesday in Ramadi, one U.S. soldier was killed and another wounded in a roadside bombing, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt.

Northeast of Baghdad, in the city of Baqouba on Wednesday, a suicide bomber blew up explosives in his car when he was near a convoy of government vehicles, wounding 14 Iraqis and killing himself, officials said.

The attacked convoy is normally used to transport the Diala provincial governor, Abdullah al-Joubori, but he was elsewhere at the time, said police Col. Ali Hossein.

On Tuesday, a suicide bombing outside the house of a police chief in Hillah, about 60 miles south of Baghdad, killed the attacker and wounded seven others.

A bomb exploded late Tuesday in a movie theater that had closed for the night. Two bystanders were wounded by flying glass, said its owner, Ghani Mohammed.

The latest violence came two days after Carina Perelli, the head of a U.N. electoral team, said better security is vital if Iraq wants to hold elections by a Jan. 31 deadline. The polls are scheduled to follow a June 30 transfer of sovereignty to an Iraqi government.

Top U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer said Tuesday he had appointed 21 anti-corruption inspectors general to government departments to try to prevent fraud. More will be named in coming days, he said.

The inspectors will work with two other newly formed, independent agencies. Together, they will "form an integrated approach intended to combat corruption at every level of government across the country," Bremer said.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040331/D81LDD300.html

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ozonefiller
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posted March 31, 2004 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SO, whatever happened to those "flowers" that Rumsfeld said that the Iraqis would be handing to our troops once they reached Bagdad,back almost a year ago?

And this is the country that the Administration wants bring "sovereign peace and freedom" to?

I believe that they are already showing they're appreciation towards our efforts!

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Eleanore
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posted March 31, 2004 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is an awful occupation. Why did the focus shift to Iraq from Bin Laden in the first place? Why are so many people dying on both sides? What purpose does this serve? What can we do to help end this tragedy? How many more petitions do people have to sign? How many more letters do people have to write? How many more protests have to be staged? How many more people have to die before this is over?


My thoughts and prayers are with all those who have passed over because of this conflict.

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Isis
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posted March 31, 2004 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This kind of stuff really ****** me off and makes me think not very nice things about Iraqis. But I try to keep it in perspective.

The attack took place in Fallujah in the "Sunni triagle", wherein lies a good deal of former Bathists - who just were stripped of all power, SO I'd like to think this isn't representative of the entire country's attitude towards us, but rather those who were deposed, which is to be expected.

I wonder why however, the military doesn't guard civilian contractors better.

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“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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ozonefiller
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posted March 31, 2004 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All of what you guys are asking about this is all due to the fact that the Adminstration has sent these solders over there to die! The more the solders that dies in any war, the more the percentage of dividends the US government extracts out of the insurance policies that the Capital has on each every solder that they sent out during wartime. Uncle Sam gets 2/3 of that and the families of the solders get only 1/3 and a flag!

This all NOT including over the fact that companies like Halliburton, and other companies that make the weapontry for this war over they're production of supplies, are getting a pretty penny for every solder that dies in that war!

This is Capitalism at it's ugliest( if their ever is such a word), does this all sound like the war that this country had back over 35 years ago,with "Bell Helicopters" and *edit* "McDonell Douglas" involved?

All I can say is, if America gives this President a second term,you bet you shirt buttons, he be giving us the draft soon enough!

Remember,he's the "Magic Man"!

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Harpyr
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posted March 31, 2004 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I am sooo glad my step-father didn't get the contract he bid for to send computers over to Iraq.. He was willing to send his 20 yr old daughter over there to program them.. I told him he was crazy for being willing to put her in such great harm's way to make money..

This sort of thing is so disturbing.

Is it worth it? All this to remove from power some despot that never had the weapons to reach us?

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Randall
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posted March 31, 2004 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A full 74 percent of Iraqis feel their lives are better due to the occupation. This event is the result of thugs in that area who have lost power and want to take Iraq back to the days of torture, rape, and deprivation. This was not the result of the Iraqi people in general. These are criminals. They will have to be captured or killed before Iraq can be a peaceful democracy. Sorry, but that is just reality. I hate war as much as anyone, but freedom isn't free.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Randall
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posted March 31, 2004 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think anyone feels that Iraq was a danger to the US, but we have to protect Israel, not to mention the fact that bullies need to be stood up to, and the human rights violations in Iraq were reason enough for me.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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gloomy sag
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posted March 31, 2004 02:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wish we had an actual Iraqi person here...
You know - their two cents...

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Harpyr
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posted March 31, 2004 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I don't think anyone feels that Iraq was a danger to the US, but we have to protect Israel, not to mention the fact that bullies need to be stood up to, and the human rights violations in Iraq were reason enough for me.

well that's certainly not the tune the administration was singing to get supprt of the majority of Americans.. The vast majority of the arguments in support of this war building up to it was that Saddam had WMD that threatened the US. (Including the supporters around LL) Now suddenly that's tossed aside like it wsa never a big deal and suddenly it's OUR business to take out all the all the crazy dictatorships in the world.. Except y'know.. in Africa, for instance.....

Don't even get me started on Israel....

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Harpyr
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posted March 31, 2004 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Published on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 by the Editor and Publisher
Reporter Apologizes for Iraq Coverage
by E&P Staff

NEW YORK In the wake of Richard Clarke's dramatic personal apology to the families of 9/11 victims last week -- on behalf of himself and his government -- for failing to prevent the terrorist attacks, one might expect at least a few mea culpas related to the release of false information on the Iraq threat before and after the war.

This has not happened so far, with President Bush on Wednesday going so far as to joke about the missing weapons of mass destruction at a correspondents dinner in Washington.

While the major media, from The New York Times on down, has largely remained silent about their own failings in this area, a young columnist for a small paper in Fredericksburg, Va., has stepped forward.

"The media are finished with their big blowouts on the anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, and there is one thing they forgot to say: We're sorry," Rick Mercier wrote, in a column published Sunday in The Free Lance-Star.

"Sorry we let unsubstantiated claims drive our coverage. Sorry we were dismissive of experts who disputed White House charges against Iraq. Sorry we let a band of self-serving Iraqi defectors make fools of us. Sorry we fell for Colin Powell's performance at the United Nations. Sorry we couldn't bring ourselves to hold the administration's feet to the fire before the war, when it really mattered.

"Maybe we'll do a better job next war."

Mercier admitted that it was "absurd to receive this apology from a person so low in the media hierarchy. You really ought to be getting it from the editors and reporters at the agenda-setting publications, such as The New York Times and The Washington Post."

Mercier, an editor and writer at the newspaper who writes a column two or three times a month, told E&P that the column was sparked by what he saw as "a need for accountability and reflection" given the seriousness of the current conflict in Iraq and the failure to find WMDs there or a strong Saddam link to al Qaeda. He saw little of that soul-searching in the one-year anniversary coverage. "By neglecting to fully employ their critical-thinking faculties, the media not only failed their readers and viewers, they failed our democracy," Mercier said.

Concluding his column, Mercier declared, "there's no excusing that failure. The only thing that can be said is, Sorry."


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ozonefiller
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posted March 31, 2004 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, to be truthfully honest with you Randall,but I feel that their would be nothing wrong with having a war with a country that declared it on us,but we've waged war against the wrong country(s) AND the fact about those thugs that are attacking US troops,well, I don't seem to see a one refrain from one common Iraqi citizen whatsoever from not welcoming the idea of finishing the job that those thugs start on each and every US solder they brutalize to death. Indeed freedom isn't for free,but really,is this the price that WE have to pay for,FOR NOTHING?

IF this war does reach it's end and I can look at it in 5 years,what did we really gain,unemployment,allies falling out from NATO,maybe worse,China retrieving power from the jobs that we have given them and building up they're WMDs for us to REALLY worry about,is that really freedom?!

I don't see the end reaching it's means at all!

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Randall
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posted March 31, 2004 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think we had good reason to believe that lunatic had WMD. After World War 1, the world powers asked us to be their police, and we declined. The American people didn't want any part of another World War, and we stayed out of it until Pearl Harbor. Had we stopped Hitler earlier, maybe the world would now not be in the chaos it's in, especially in regard to the Middle East and Israel. Despots are never satisfied; they always want more and more power. After World War 2, we accepted the offer to help police the world and prevent any other Hitlerian uprisings. I'm not saying we have never made mistakes or that leaders in Washington have never been power-hungry, but all in all, I think we have done a lot of good. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I think in several years, the insurgence of Islamic democracy will spread throughout the Middle East, and it will all start with Iraq.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Harpyr
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posted March 31, 2004 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well. I hope atleast something good will come from all this madness.

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Randall
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posted March 31, 2004 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those who think Kerry will pull troops out of Iraq have another think coming. He's a pawn just like every other President. The only difference is that every American will be paying more in taxes. As bad as gas prices currently are, he wants to initiate a 50 cent gasoline tax. DUH! We have nothing to fear from China. Like the former Soviet Union, nuclear arms on both sides create a balance of power. I'm not worried about responsible leaders like China. It's the insane, power-hungry totalitarians that we all should be afraid of.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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ozonefiller
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posted March 31, 2004 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I appreciate your optimism Randall and that's all good,but what if this turns out to be neverending and continues for the next 10 years with no progress? It's happened before to us,it can happen again!

This war started on false pretences(right from the word go),why should it end on the lighter note? They're cells are all over the world,not just in the middle east,Bush is still swating flies.

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ozonefiller
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posted March 31, 2004 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the GOP are not so far from being totalitarians themselves!

There just about as close as being the New Confederacy!

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ozonefiller
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posted March 31, 2004 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Richard Clarke put it "Once in office you start to spin!",there's no telling about what Kerry says until he's in office,but the matter of taxes on gas,the oil price today has already reached it's ultimate "hike",so 50 cents in taxes are not gonna matter in comparisons towards the prices that will be rising within the next three months from now!

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lovely libra
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posted April 01, 2004 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely libra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to know who died and left us in charge. why do we have to be the police to the world. don't we have enough problems to deal with here? we are always butting in. Ireland, Africa,Iraq. Jesh!

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~Renee
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Randall
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posted April 01, 2004 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With great power comes great responsibility.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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TINK
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posted April 01, 2004 09:03 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The responsibility to do the right thing. But there's the rub. And why must we defend Israel? This is not a country I feel proud to call a friend. If your looking for a pyscho despot, you need look no further. I was never afraid of war with Russia, but I am afraid of China. Their's is a completely different mind frame. China is a sleeping dragon, but it is stirring and it will wake soon.

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Lost Leo
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posted April 01, 2004 01:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall

Sorry to repeat the below, but some find it much easier to point fingers and criticize than consider the possibility of a "Bigger Picture"

And you know what, we took the War on Terrorism to the Terrorists, ...THEY... have decided to make Iraq their battleground, at least it isn't our homeland anymore. And I'd rather see trained military personell fighting the terrorists than civilian slayings in our homeland.

PS - When you sign up for the military you are essentially giving your life to the government, maybe people will consider that more carefully now...

---------------------------------------------
"It prevented a bigger war"
-the war between the civilizations of the West & Islam

And now Democracy has found a solid foundation to build upon & spread in the Middle East...

SLOWLY the region will diffuse from being the world's GREATEST THREAT to stability and economic growth...

The fruits of this stabilized world in the future and it's STRONG STEADY GLOBAL ECONOMIC GROWTH will be: the extermination world hunger and poverty, the successful destruction of epidemics like AIDS, the development of all 3rd world nations into successful affluent countries with a middle class.

Elimination of human suffering in the world is possible, to evolve this world to a new level of humanity and concern for all of our fellow human beings can be achieved...
(Now isn't this the goal of all of the Leftist Liberals???)

Although those ends can only be achieved thru the Western ways... spreading democracy, guaranteeing ALL peoples basic human rights, and economic growth...

It's unfortunate that the start of this global revolution had to occur by force... but ruthless dictators are not going to freely allow you to oust them from power and offer the PEOPLE the power to reform.

(Funny... they say when you go SO FAR Right you end up being at the same place as the SO FAR Left)

at least that's how I see it from the FAR RIGHT...

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proxieme
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posted April 01, 2004 01:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, that got off topic.

These weren't trained military personnel - they were civilian contractors.
And Bremer's said that there's increasing evidence that there's an upsurge in "home-grown terrorism" in Iraq (read: people p*ssed off that we're there).

One more thing...
PS - When you sign up for the military you are essentially giving your life to the government, maybe people will consider that more carefully now...
You ever notice how that's usually said by people who have no intention of joining the military...nor know anyone who does.
Just an observation.

But I digress...
The reason that I posted this article was to highlight the ever-present problem of mankind's ruthlessness and to perhaps initiate discussion as to how and why rage can lead to such behavior (as such actions are hardly novel). From interviews, many of those involved in the aftermath of the attacks as well as the observation of those attacks feel completely justified in their actions (and, to be fair, many other observers were horrified); I saw the same attitude in people interviewed after the mutilations in Mogadishu, with one woman saying, "They have killed many Somalis - why should we be concerned with the deaths of a few Americans?" What conditions do you think lead to an erasure of the distinction between being killed in combat or as part of a combat operation and the desecration of corpses?
(And, no, saying, "It's just their culture," doesn't count...there were instances of the downed pilots during WWII in the European theatre being similarly treated.)
For that matter, you think that there *should* be a distinction drawn?

It's stunning how quickly any and every discussion in this forum morphs into a joint Dem-Rep/Left-Right bashing session.

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Xelena Ben
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posted April 01, 2004 08:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi proxieme,
i read today that the civilians killed in iraq weren't "just" independent contractors like the media's been saying. maybe this is recent information (like i said, i just read it today) but they worked for Blackwater USA. check out their website (http://www.blackwaterusa.com). no one deserves to die the way these men did, and the desecration of their bodies is fiercely reprehensible (my god, their poor families!), but i don't know how "innocent" they were either. hopefully we'll find out more in the coming days.
i recognized the name Blackwater from an article i read on alternet recently. here's the link: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18193
and here's a more recent one from Common Dreams: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0401-14.htm
these two sources are definitely "left" leaning - if anyone else has info/opinions i'd be interested in hearing it.
thanks.
x

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Randall
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posted April 05, 2004 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040405/ap_on_re_eu/spain_bombings&cid=518&ncid=716

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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