posted April 15, 2004 09:04 AM              

there are lots of repercussions around the world that we could do something about, like taiwan, for example. bush was chomping at the proverbial bit to get saddam and his oil, but it seems he isn't looking at oil-less countries and their internal problems. i wonder what you think of any future possibilities of ousting corrupt leaders around the world--not the evil axis countries, just the regular ol' iraqs of the world, of which there are many--maybe like afghanistan?

bush deserves no praise for quixotically leading us into hell in a boxed canyon with no way out now.

that canyon is teeming with night terrors made worse by inhumane acts like killing children. that only saves recruiting costs for the iraqis, and by the way, people don't seem at all upset about deaths of babies and children. it just goes over their heads, just as it is doing with some of the people who are reading this now. if you bring it up, they say you are "obsessing"--while the other guy goes on to obsess about bush's conquests and brilliant leadership, never mind the deceptions. sigh

you know vietnam is still going on, don't you? it never ends. now there is debate about whether to include fallen soldiers who just took longer to die--those whose psyches received mortal wounds causing them to seek relief only in suicide after the fact. there are far more than "only" the 50,000+ (re-read that please; we are at what, somewhere around 700 now--it keeps changing all the time, it's hard to keep up) killed back then alone. then factor in the wounded who live a hell on earth now. why would we want to praise bush for learning nothing from vietnam and recycling our soldiers into a new death machine in iraq now? (one neighbor here was described as having taken a bath in roundup from his agent orange direct hit. but he is quietly forgotten with the next war zone's newsworthiness)

and on the home front, "Back in January, a few days before the Bush Administration was set to officially propose its weak mercury emissions plan, the Children's Health Protection advisory committee issued a letter stating that the proposal didn't go far enough to protect children's health. Two weeks later, the acting co-directors for EPA's Children's Health Protection Office were promptly replaced. Coincidence?"

posted April 15, 2004 09:45 AM            

...so I can reflect seriously on your question,that you just asked me.

posted April 15, 2004 05:26 PM            

I believe that(right from the begining to the very present time),that if every empire that has came and went that has remained successful just by going by it's original forms of government and laws,then we would ALL be free,under the government that has long been perished,...so long ago! We all know that this is impossible,for the fact that Mankind has not yet evolved themselves to bypass against they're own self-will to take notice of good government's flaws and exploit them in order to receave personal gain,in fact,men and women like this has managed to lock out the possible successes of others and to kept them from rising from they're unfortunate dispositions of being a "have not" ,to NOT just to eliminate competition,but to also avoid the possibility of ever seeing they're oppositions(from they're backyards or down they're streets)face to face!

As in the Veitnam Veterans of this country,they have straight up been lied to,the Persian Gulf Veterans,they've been lied to,these Veterans of this war,will be lied to and the next war(if there is a "next war"),they will be lied to as well,just like new recruits of a "losers club". WAR is NOT what it used to be,what we once thought that we would fight for the better rite of the people,has turned into solders dying in a field(in some strange country,somewhere),to provide the well-being of some ungrateful RICH SLOB,to make absolute sure that his/her children are born with silver spoons in they're mouths and to NEVER,EVER consider where all of they're fortunate statis has ever really come from, nor should they ever really care. I like to see those PIGS face all the children of NATO and tell them why they're "Mommy" or "Daddy" ain't coming home...ANYMORE! I like to see the day where it would happen that those little BA$TERDS grow up(with they're success)and say to those children(that too have grown up)and at lease say that they're sorry and to let it be acknowledged that THEY ARE grateful for the service and sacrifice that they're parents have giving them(to be in the place that they are in,in life)and NOT this CRAP that "it had to be that way,oh well,alls fare in love and war!" I think that's BULL$HIT! There was a time that men and women died in war over the fact of either protecting they're country or to provide freedom and liberty to country that really wanted it,but that has all change and the proof is in the pudding,when you see the the only real reason that we're over there is to provide for the MORE PRIVILEGDED FEW and to do it in a country THAT SHOWS THAT THEY ARE VERY COMFORTABLE OF BEING SLAVES TO A DICTATOR! THAT DON'T GIVE ONE DAMN TOWORDS DEMOCRACY,BUT...could you really blame them,look on how(more and more) we are losing are rights and how we are always being lied to by our leaders,do you think that maybe they see it too? Maybe,they realize that freedom is only an illusion and that it is US that is really living the lie! Do you think that maybe that most of the ones that are involved in the debate towards whether or not that we should HAVE a better leader makes us really wonder if they're ever really is one anymore? Do you think that the Muslims might just have a point and it all takes this much extreme violence and death just so they can finally be taken seriously? How much violence(I can only ask)really was there before 9/11? What has been going on for the last sixty years in the Mid-East that HAS been really going on and WHY did it TAKE 9/11 for US to finally wake up to it? In fact,why don't they know anything about us,is it because,WE never really bothered to know about them? Maybe?

Now what would it take for us to pay attention to another country,like let's say North Korea? Wha...when the day comes that Tokyo ends up being the next door neighbor to San Francisco as "Fallout"?

Ladies and Gentlemen,we here have(today)a government that seems to misconcept it's own people and to even THINK that we don't care, rather then the fact that we all might be CLUELESS to whatever is going on in the world AND maybe we have givin that impression,but in the overall equation,they are DEAD WRONG!

No, I have to say however that the worse thing that we can do is to totally pull out of Iraq,but rather if we need to send more troops to anywhere,we need to start spreading out to other countries in order to find these "sleeping cells" and destroy them and then start looking towards other countries that might be a threat to this country AND our ALLIES,before someone like Kim Jon Ill decide to take advantage to this opportunity,while we are not looking!

But we also need to stop the radicals as well,just to stay the course, Bin Laden is growing weak and that's why he sent out this last video tape to PLEADE with Europe to back out of this coalition.

posted April 15, 2004 06:29 PM              

"...What did the Byrd essay, as well as all the hand-wringing editorials in all of these prestigious papers, have in common? Not one of them mentioned the number of dead Vietnamese. That number, incidentally, is not so precise and round as our beloved 58,000. It is an estimate we place in the millions, with the conservative count edging toward one million, the outside edge pushing for three million. It is hard to be precise when you are counting bone fragments in B-52 craters.

If anyone needs a hint as to why the rest of the world hates us so much, this is why. Thirty years after the fact, America still insists on looking at Vietnam as "our national tragedy," the tragedy apparently being 58,000 dead, a regrettable loss of public confidence in the institution of the presidency, a brief period of political turmoil on American campuses, an enduring hesitancy to use military force...

Right. That's the tragedy. Not the indiscriminate murder of one-sixth of Laos. Not the saturation bombing of wide swaths of rural Indochina. Not the turning of ancient cultures into moonscapes. Not the napalming of children or the dropping of mines and CBUs into civilian villages for scare value.

This process is starting all over again. With 58,000 looming in the background, we are starting a new count, which is up to about 640 as of this writing. Do we even count the number of Iraqi dead? Maybe in the daily battle reports, but you have to really look for a running total. I've seen numbers ranging from 10,000 to 15,000, but it's never anything like the concrete numbers we grimly and tearfully assign to coalition deaths. As in the past, we're content to let that other figure drift off into an estimate.

When this whole mess is over, I'm sure we can expect more of the same. With half of Mesopotamia turned to glass, we will build a sunken wall to our boys and give an Oscar to the first director with enough balls to do Saving Private Lynch. We have no shame in this country.

posted April 15, 2004 07:18 PM            

One war's purpose was to save a people from the ever growing tide of Communism(that was launched in North Veitnam),by the Chinese.

posted April 15, 2004 08:39 PM              

when asked why she thought that it's okay to go to war then, she said, "well, just look at how many things we need energy for--cars, boats, snowmobiles..."

in the third-world country where i taught school, they got by okay with a generator that ran from 6:00 until 10:00 in the evenings. it seemed they were a lot happier than howard hughes, who was asked how much money it would take to make him happy. he replied, "just a little bit more"

if being the richest man in the world didn't satisfy him, maybe these simple folks were onto something, eh?

posted April 15, 2004 11:05 PM            

1.We're in war with Iraq,instead of Afghanistan.

2. Iraqis hate us.

3. Osama is the bad guy.

4. Alot of people usually dies in war.

5. Democracy will eventually be at hand.

6. When questioned,Twigy gets a speach impediment problem.

7. Hmmmm,let's see,NAH,seven is a holy number,their was nothing holy that he had to say!

8. We were deciphering over whether or not,if he was right and their is no comparisons between this war and the one in Veitnam. (We still don't see how)

9. YES, America DOES sit between two bodies of water!

posted April 16, 2004 03:30 PM            

Is he perfect? Hell no..He's certainly no Ronald Reagan.

But I s'pose many would have Saddam still in power gassing, torturing and terrorizing his own populace while our "allies" an UN partners Germany, France and Russia violate sanctions in order that his sons can ensure their full-time staff of prostitutes at their in-home whorehouses? Yup, that's preferable to war, right? I mean, cause it's ok people die just so long as its not at our hands?

But I digress - I found his speech to be somewhat typical (as you stated, he did restate a lot of the same things), but I personally had no problems w/ what I did see of the Q&A portion, other than the fact that the blantantly left-leaning network media asking him presumptive questions and actually expecting to get the answers they were fishing for.

But as I said before, I didn't get a chance to see it in its entirety.

**and if you post a sixty paragraph response to this, don't expect me to answer it. If you want to debate it helps to keep your points succinct so that they can be addressed without wading through lines and lines of emotionally charged allegations. Otherwise it's like we're all in a room trying to talk over each other, not listening to what one another says. That's not a debate or a discussion, it's a free-for-all.

posted April 21, 2004 07:32 PM            

quote:

---

W said-
We knew they were hiding things -- a country that hides something is a country that is afraid of getting caught.

---

posted April 21, 2004 10:03 PM              

we'll try it again

posted April 23, 2004 12:04 AM            

You sure request some pretty tall orders,for someone that can't seem to read between the lines!

Tell me something Isis, do you think that maybe(there will come a day) that you would post something that is actually "NICE",or does that too contrast to the writing requirments that you have managed to set up for us to follow?

I'll tell you one thing though,I'm kinda interest in you,you strike me as a person that is worthy to make me think, so I started with your name (and why would you use that name?), since you refuse to provide us with anyother information for us to learn about you(since you are sure not here to make any friends in Lindaland),so I looked in the dictionary and this is what I found:

isis

\I"sis\, n. [L., the goddess Isis, fr. Gr. ?.] 1. (Myth.) The principal goddess worshiped by the Egyptians. She was regarded as the mother of Horus, and the sister and wife of Osiris. The Egyptians adored her as the goddess of fecundity, and as the great benefactress of their country, who instructed their ancestors in the art of agriculture.

2. (Zo["o]l.) Any coral of the genus Isis, or family Isid[ae], composed of joints of white, stony coral, alternating with flexible, horny joints. See Gorgoniacea.

3. (Astron.) One of the asteroids.

...but I said,"NAH,that doesn't sound anything like you",so I looked further and you know what, BY-GOLLY, I FOUND IT!

isis

1. A toolkit for implementing fault-tolerant distributed
systems, developed at Cornell and now available commercially

...and I'll tell you what,your a very smart person,I would never had known of that,it just explains it all!

posted April 23, 2004 12:48 AM            

You are also presumptive. Perhaps I came here to exercise my most important muscle, meet new people, to discuss what I do know about astrology, and to learn more. Interesting how you equate my lack of revealing personal things about myself with not wanting to make friends.

Linda Goodman was my first and major introduction to astrology with Sun and Love Signs, but beyond that I've read nothing else of hers.

If I were to pick a goddess that I feel is more personally symbolic, it would probably be Kali if you really want to know (which still compartmentalizes me as an individual because all persons have different facets to themselves...)but coming into a new community with a name like that sets one up for all sorts of pre-conceived attitudes and prejudices, so I go with my favorite goddess of my favorite ancient culture in the world. The story behind the name is long, but the truth of it is far less symbolic and far more boring than many would care to know. To be honest, I was truly surprised it wasn't already taken.

I was not dictating to anyone how to speak, I was merely pointing out how an intelligible debate is usually conducted, so that all parties can meet in a middle ground. You have shown yourself to be one of those here who have more invested in being right than understood. Like I told Raine, it seems that people like yourself are more interested in changing minds than expanding your own.

There are ground rules everywhere, including here. I can't come on here and start spouting racial epithets, cussing people out, etc - they're "guidelines", if I expect others to talk to me, I should follow those guidelines. If you truly want to debate and not proselytize your personal beliefs, then it helps to follow a set of guidelines designed to help get to the the meat of an issue and for all involved to come to some deeper understanding of the issue. Those were not instructions, they were suggestions, as the end of the post stated.

I don't read in between lines, I expect people to be direct, as I guarantee I will usually be in return.

posted April 23, 2004 01:47 AM            

LOOK, I've read your post and I've seen EVEN YOU overstep your own bounds and broken your own rules of debate,but if you strongly feel NOW that you need to require yourself within these "guidelines" and strictly act upon them,then that is only YOUR choice to follow and not anybody elses!

Otherwise do what you will,that is your choice,by ALL means,you do have that rite!

...but remember this, their is one thing to possess "The art of Expression" and then their is another thing to possess "The art of Listening"!

posted April 23, 2004 02:25 PM            

Look you do whatever you want, but if you want sane debate, those were suggestions, follow them or not. Like I said, if you truly failed to see my point, then let it go, debate is not for you, that's fine, you keep on with your current approach. But don't expect me to debate with you, that's all. I'm sure that sits just fine w/ you, so it's a win/win situation.