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Author Topic:   Here I go with Kerry and Bush ...
Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 26, 2004 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think my views concerning some wars and service have been presented fairly well on my part, and argued and disagreed with to be sure by others, as well. However, in light of how I feel about a commitment to service once you do decide it is something you want to do with your life, I find the current battle between the past military service of Kerry and Bush to be very disturbing.

I know I've had it pointed out before that MoveOn.org is not the most reliable source of information. Nevertheless, I offer some quotes regarding this situation from their perspective. I invite anyone with facts to prove otherwise, or attempt to prove otherwise, to please share them.


quote:
In 2000, the Bush camp ran a vicious "whisper campaign" which questioned whether John McCain was mentally stable after his service as a Vietnam POW. In 2002, Bush surrogates ran a TV ad against Max Cleland, a Democratic Senator who lost three limbs in Vietnam, that attacked Cleland's patriotism and faded his face into Osama bin Laden's.

Now, the Republican National Committee and the Bush/Cheney campaign are pushing a story that John Kerry was not injured badly enough in Vietnam to deserve one of his three Purple Hearts. Given the gaping holes in Bush's own record of service, the attack is absurd ....

Recently released military documents from both camps highlight the differences between the two men. George Bush, then in the National Guard, checked a box "do not volunteer for overseas." Then he failed to show up for a required physical, was grounded from flying, and didn't show up for several months before leaving eight months early for Harvard Business School.

In contrast, in a letter to his Navy personnel officer, Kerry wrote "I request duty in Vietnam." Over the course of that service, for "brave action, bold initiative and unwavering devotion to duty," he was awarded the Bronze Star and Silver Star medals. He also earned not one but three Purple Hearts, for being injured in service to our country.

As the Associated Press reported, "Throughout his four years of active duty, Kerry's superiors gave him glowing evaluations . . . narrative comments from his commanding officers said he was diplomatic, charismatic, decisive and well-liked by his men. . . He was recommended for early promotion, and when he left the Navy in 1970 to run for Congress, his commanding officer said it was the Navy's loss."

But unless we set the record straight, Republicans may actually succeed in misleading the public about Kerry's courageous service and deflecting the huge questions that remain about their own candidate's service ....



This organization has also made an advertisement in response to the current ads circulating the air waves questiong Kerry's service. I don't think it's the highest quality ad, but nevertheless, I offer the link:

Watch the ad.


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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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Isis
Newflake

Posts: 1
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted April 26, 2004 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But then John Kerry returned from service, bashing his fellow veterans, the war, and admitting (I actually saw him say this in tapings of the congressional hearings) that he did horrible, unconscionable things over there, along w/ his fellow soldiers. He admitted he comitted atrocities.

In any case, not that I'm condoning it, merely remarking on its existence, but that is the business of politics (negative ads on both sides). The Dems were talking pretty big **** about each other in the primaries, now they're all bedfellows. I'm sure it works no different on the other side.

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“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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Distantdrummer
unregistered
posted April 26, 2004 04:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
kerry served in a great and complex war of our nation.

bush served up a a very large check to a twisted air force officer and got released early from duty.

kerry has experience.

bush has his pappys counsel.

kerry for president and george for clearing the bush from the white house once hes ousted for his wussie approach on every issue on the american agenda!

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raine6
unregistered
posted April 26, 2004 06:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
isis

might i suggest you listen to kerry with your heart to see what he is really saying?

i am not particularly a fan of kerry's, although i "heard" what he was saying because i listened with my own heart

he was not boasting about the things he had done. he was trying to get people to see how war dehumanizes everyone, by sharing what he himself had not only witnessed but experienced

personally such honesty is refreshing, although i would rather not have to hear such things. violence breeds violence. and when people are taught to dehumanize the enemy with names, even cutesy little names like rush limbaugh's "piglets at the government trough" they turn into very unloving people

i would suggest that everyone read "all's quiet on the western front" to get a better grasp of what war is like. i have not been in combat, so i have to read what others have written about it, and that is considered the all-time best story of the realities of war

it might sober up those who so flippantly justify war

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 26, 2004 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I understand what you're saying, Isis, and I am aware that he did say such things after returning from the war. But I do think there is something to be said for the fact that he actually did have the integrity (?) to fulfill his duty during the draft. It really irks me to see Bush's adminstration try to talk down Kerry's service time in comparison to Bush's arguably cowardly avoidance. Also, I don't think it is relevant to argue over just "how injured" someone was in regards to whether or not they deserve a Purple Heart for their service. Whether or not you agree that there is anything to be said for the military, certainly the people who risked their lives for something and were injured in the process do not need to have something as meaningful to them as that revoked or attempted to be revoked. It isn't as thought every Tom, Richard(?), and Harry received one of those honors, and certainly they are not handed out like ice cream. It just seems so disrespectful. I suppose I don't like the business of politics is all, then. Just my opinions, of course.


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Distantdrummer
Don't know what to say to that, but I'm inclined to want to agree. I hope that doesn't make me biased.

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raine6
I think you come close to hitting the mark with your assessment of why Kerry probably turned around and said what he did after returning from the war. Vietnam was a thoroughly horrendous affair, and I have no doubt it would cause those feelings in someone who managed survived it. Certainly not all Vietnam Vets see it this way, but I think perhaps a lot of them might.

I have read, "All Quiet on the Western Front" by Erich Maria Remarque, and I do think it is a generally accurate description of war, particularly during that time period. Did you know that in the 1930s his books were banned by the Nazis? This particular book was among the works consigned to be publicly burnt in 1933 by the Nazis. He lost his German citizenship in 1938. Interestingly enough, he was drafted into the German army at the age of 18 and was wounded several times (WWI), and this book was, obviously, written after that experience. Perhaps I am reading too far into these circumstances, but I think there is something to be said for them.

Have you, by any chance, read "Night" by Elie Wiesel?

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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 26, 2004 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a link to a thread where the last couple of posts were revisited a little, just in case anyone is curious:

support our troops -- give 'em more food stamps

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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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