posted April 30, 2004 01:11 PM              

Crunch time for Canada, that is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo." Last night, we told you about two American Army privates who deserted, fled to Canada, and are being hailed by heroes by some Canadian media. The two have filed for asylum even though they are not entitled to it under Canadian law. We said that if granted asylum, "Talking Points" would call for a boycott of Canadian goods and services by all Americans.

Well, that's caused all kinds of angst in Canada. Thousands of letters have poured in. And we will read some of them to you in our mail segment, but one caught my eye.

Paul in Kingston, Ontario writes, "I feel real anger towards Canadian media people who are so blatantly anti-American. Please do not use my last name, I fear government reprisal."

More than a few Canadian e-mailers said the same thing. They're afraid of their government if they dissent from the anti-American party line.

Since 9/11, the Canadian government has done the following.

1) Refused to crack down on known terrorist organizations.

2) Not one individual has been prosecuted for terrorist activities, even though U.S. intelligence has identified at least 50 pro-terror outfits operating north of the border. (this is upsetting)

3) Continued its loose immigration policies. Is allowing Islamic courts in Ontario to decide on some civil cases involving Muslims. (once again, upsetting)

Refused to send troops to Iraq. (I don't blame them here)

Decriminalized marijuana, making it easier for smugglers to send pot into the U.S.A.
And supported a quasi-legalization of heroin in the city of Vancouver. (whatever, don't matta to me)

Now, however, the last straw is in the drink. If the Canadian government provides sanctuary to American military criminals, deserters, "Talking Points" believes that action would directly undermine the U.S. war on terror.

At this point, I believe the Canadian government will send those guys back here. But if it doesn't, then we, the people, of the U.S.A. should hold that country accountable, just as we are holding France accountable.

All of us in America should be soldiers in the war on terror. If a foreign country's helping those who want to kill us, then we have an obligation to confront that. These deserters weren't drafted. They signed up. And when the going got tough, they split. If all our military people did that, 9-11 would be on constant instant replay.

posted April 30, 2004 02:20 PM            

I cannot commment much on the other issues brought to light, as I don't feel frankly, qualified to. But I will say, that there is always more to the story than a one lined controversial statement. No blind eyes here, Just realistic.
The pot issue? Well, not legal anymore, so I wonder how old this release is...... True, it is treated mostly flippantly, though not in all cases.... but it has been ammended since then. www.cannabisculture.com

posted April 30, 2004 02:25 PM            

Can any of the Candians here weigh in on the matter? (re: alleged Canadian media anti-Americanism, whether they think those guys should be extradited, etc)

I personally have had firsthand experience with venom from a Canadian. When I lived in NZ, I was getting my citizenship, and I was at immigration waiting in line and I heard a (presumed) American accent behind me. I was just so happy to hear a familiar accent, I was 19 and alone in a foreign country, so I happily turned around and said, "hey! You're an American!" with a great big smile on my face. That lady read me the riot act in a very nasty manner. Really threw me for a loop - she went on and on about "******* Americans" and "she's not an American, she's a Canadian", "all ******* Americans are rude", esp. me for confusing her for an American. It was really disheartening - not to mention, both my mother and grandmother were born Canadian (so technically, I am 1/2 Canadian too). If that happened to me today I'd tell that lady where to go. But at the time I was young and polite and just sat there astonished that I was being told off cause I confused her for an American.

So if that nasty wench was any indication, a sentiment of anti-Americanism in Canada wouldn't surprise me. But I haven't been to Canada lately or seen the Canadian news, so I just don't know...

Any Canuks out there want to weigh in?

posted April 30, 2004 02:37 PM              

I see a couple sides to this story but all in all I think the deserters should be returned here. I'm not sure what's up with Canada because I'm not hip to most Canadian policy and law. But you'd think they'd be a little more inclined to help us out considering if anyone wanted their syrup they'd be helpless to defend it. <~~~ sorry big joke. I'm obviously kidding about fighting for syrup.

To be honest I thought Canada and the US had a really good relationship until very recently except for the Celine Dion thing.

posted April 30, 2004 02:42 PM            

What about Canadian Bacon? Who's gonna defend that while they're off fighting for their syrup?

I say again...WHAT ABOUT THE BACON?????!?!?!?!?

Save Breakfast, defend Canada!!!!!!

ok, I'll shut up now...couldn't resist

posted April 30, 2004 03:03 PM            

Can't we just stick to Comedians?
I know actors and comedians, and I am sad to proclaim, being the only Canadian posting here, that I wish I knew more, but I am not very political minded. "Why", you ask,"Are you posting here?" Um, I don't now.. scurries away.....

posted May 05, 2004 04:27 PM              

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Canada willing to send Mounties to Iraq
Toronto Star>>

Canada is willing to send RCMP officers to help restore order in Iraq but nobody's asked for them, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien said today.
"We've sent RCMP officers to Haiti and elsewhere," Chrétien said during a news conference. "If it is a contribution that we can make, we will do it. If they want us to do something else, we will do something else."

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That would actually be very helpful.

Especially if they could somehow catch Saddamly Whiplash.

Seriously though, anyone who has police experience would be welcome in Iraq right now, I imagine. Just wish they'd done it, you know, A LITTLE EARLIER.

Posted by: Steve at April 11, 2003 12:28 PM
Thanks Jean... But you are still a f*ucking @$$hole...

Posted by: Original Mark at April 11, 2003 12:32 PM
the war isnt over yet. let them know anarchy so they may better appreciate grounded democracy

Posted by: gijoe at April 11, 2003 12:32 PM
the war isnt over yet. let them know anarchy so they may better appreciate grounded democracy

Posted by: gijoe at April 11, 2003 12:32 PM
Ok, Jean, we want you to do something else: SIT THE F$%& DOWN AND SHUT THE F%$# UP, LOSER.
You're a bit late to the party.

Posted by: dave at April 11, 2003 12:34 PM
did i repeat myself again?

Posted by: gijoe at April 11, 2003 12:34 PM
Hey Jean Chretien,

You want to do something else? Tighten your damn borders and keep that scum from slithering into our country!

Posted by: Wax at April 11, 2003 12:35 PM
Tie Domi

Posted by: Michael Wagner at April 11, 2003 12:35 PM
They can only come if they wear the red uniforms and the fur hats.

Posted by: Lou at April 11, 2003 12:40 PM
There are relationships not worth repairing and relationships that are worth repairing. The one with France probably isn't, but the one with Canada is. A large portion of the Canadian public is on our side. And this is actually a worthwhile offer of assistance. Unlike France, it doesn't smack of "let us get our hands in there to protect our business interests". And Chretien doesn't sound like he is holding Canadian post war assistance hostage to UN action.

Posted by: tcm at April 11, 2003 12:42 PM
Tie Domi! Ha! Now there's an enforcer!

Posted by: None at April 11, 2003 12:42 PM
Too little, too late.

Posted by: ERDV at April 11, 2003 12:42 PM
So, NOW Canada offers to send assistance. For the months leading up to this war, all we heard was Canada's refusal to support the war effort. It's too late. Canada is just as irrelevant as our other "friends" in old Europe.

Posted by: cades at April 11, 2003 12:43 PM
I think it's a great idea. Neither the US nor Canada will benefit from permanent estrangement. Chretien has felt some popular pressure to help out in Iraq, and this is a good way to respond to that. And unlike France, Canada did not actively and globally campaign against us in the U.N.

Posted by: Christopher Rake at April 11, 2003 12:46 PM
Screw it, we own the country, lets entertain ourselves with it. Wouldn't you like to see the news networks full of images of bright red uniformed RCMP and their horses roaming around Bhagdad?

Also, midgets. We should send midgets, sumo wrestlers, and all the nudists we can find, and drop them off, then make them police officers.

Posted by: bullseye at April 11, 2003 12:48 PM
The RCMP is not a military unit, they are peace keepers and are famous for rebuilding civilian police, as they do in bosnia, Afghanistan, etc. they always work AFTER the wars, not during, they clean up the mess as they have always done in the past.
It's a valid offer, and it seems Iraq needs it now, as the USA has no intrest ing policing, as stated.
Canada's traditional role has always been peace keeping, not the main war.

Posted by: James at April 11, 2003 12:49 PM
Quick note: I did not intend to offend any little people (is that PC?) or suggest the RCMP isn't a professional and prestigious outfit.

Just that we need some humor over there, that's all.

Posted by: bullseye at April 11, 2003 12:53 PM
And lets straighten out something right now.
Canada does NOT check who goes into the united states. Thats the AMERICAN border guards Job. American border guards do NOT check who comes into Canada, thats the Canadian border gurds Job.
So, if someone sneaks into the USA from Canada, that means the USA border guards did not do their job. so don't blame it on Canada we don't control both sides of the border.
Look at mexico, same thing. the USA watches who comes into the country, not mexico.
Now get it straight, of the 911 terrorists, they well ALL american immigrants. Of those caught in canada, it was canadian police who caught them BEFORE they even tried to get into the USA.
Clean up your own backyard before you look into your nieghbors

Posted by: idiots at April 11, 2003 12:56 PM
Saddamly Whiplash? Awesome. I got busted drinking beer before a Pink Floyd concert in Toronto by a RCMP. I can say this. He was polite, and allowed me to finish the one I was working on.

Posted by: Tom at April 11, 2003 12:57 PM
I think it's a great idea. Let's not allow the fact that it will give Cretin political cover blind us to the reality that the Mounties are good at policework, and...we could really use the help. Getting Iraq back on its feet is supposed to be the goal, folks. The sooner we're out of there the better.

Posted by: Harry at April 11, 2003 12:58 PM
Anyone care to join me in a round of "Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen?"

Posted by: jen suozzi at April 11, 2003 01:00 PM
I think it is a good idea that Canada offers some assistance. You have to remember that there are a LOT of Canadian people that support and love America, and hate their Prime Minister. Don't hold your grudge on every Canadian, because that's wrong. For every French... maybe =)

Anyways, the questions that should be asked is if these guys are capable of handling the Iraqi's? Will they be too harsh, too nice, too "Canadian"? If they see all these weird looking mounties coming into their country and telling them what to do, how will they react? They already are upset against Germany, Russia & France for postponing their liberation, how do they feel for Canadians (people who didn't do any military action).

Posted by: Anenga at April 11, 2003 01:01 PM
the amount of arabs in the USA is staggaring, about 8 million, compared to the 350,000 in Canada. Ever been to buffalo lately? it's almost an arab nation.
we have problems on both sides of the border, especially in that area. Americans are no better and keeping them from slipping into the country.

Canada has ordered 36,000 to leave the country, Also they lost them somehow. This is a sad thing and has canadians real ****** off at the government, along with us being ****** off at the Governments lack of support for our American Brothers.
The other post has it right, don't be ****** off at the Canadian people, the majority supports America, but if you want to bash the french liberal government? Feel free! we enjoy bashing them too, so we can share the fun with you in the USA

Posted by: James at April 11, 2003 01:04 PM
mounties? wont they stick out in all the red they wear?
and what are they going to use? maple syrup?

Posted by: gijoe at April 11, 2003 01:09 PM

It seems you have misunderstood my post. I am frustrated by the amount of scum they let in there country. With tougher immigration laws the difficult task of monitoring these massive boards would be easier for US board patrol. The let anyone in up there.

Posted by: Wax at April 11, 2003 01:12 PM
The average Canadian supports the US and thinks their Government is a bunch of quasi-French panzies.

Bring on Dudley Do-Right. We'll let them in, as long as you don't ask the UN for permission first.

Give the Candians a chance at redemption.

Posted by: Cowboy Bob at April 11, 2003 01:12 PM
Put me down as approving of this gesture from our Northern neighbors. We will really need their help with the police work over there, and it would be a good way of saying that we don't harbor any grudges.

We have to stay on good terms with the Canadians. After all, where else are we gonna get trees once ours are all cut down?
;-)

Posted by: Curt at April 11, 2003 01:21 PM
Better late than never, and it sounds like a genuinely helpful development. Magnanimity will go a long way, but... uh.... F**K FRANCE!!!!

Posted by: rebmiami at April 11, 2003 01:21 PM
Send in "The Mountie" Jacques Rougeau from the former WWF wrestling with his zap stick.

Posted by: stupik(putski) at April 11, 2003 01:33 PM
Mounties don't wear red uniforms, that just their dress uniform. You don't see marines fighting in their dress uniform do you?
The maple syrop thing, thats a separate issue, it's the glue that holds that stack of pan cakes together,and makes canadian bacon taste so good as well.
I for one, would LOVE to see all the RCMP go do police rebuilding in Iraq. maybe I won't get so many speeding tickets, and the cops that gave me them will be out of the country, and won't show up in court for the ones I pled not guilty to, thereby, giving me an automatic win.

Posted by: LMAO at April 11, 2003 01:36 PM
Mounties = world respected at traing new countries at police work. Very successful.

Jean Cretien = 70yr Old retiring asswipe just trying to protect his legacy as a peace keeper. Not like the world cares anyway.
He will be gone in 2004 so then we can rebuild relationship with US.

Jean asked Canadains a loaded question in a poll he used to set policy. (His governs by poll)

Asked: Should Canada goto war based on UN authorizing. Well ya 70% said yes. BUT he interpreted that as not going without UN.

Now here is the other poll
asked: Should Canada Back the USA
73% said Yes. Hmmm See it all depends on how you ask.

My recommendation. Just like France... Don't do business with Quebec. Guess who's blood is thicker than water. Ass kissing Chirac lovers.

Posted by: Terry at April 11, 2003 01:44 PM
Don't worry Nell, I'll save you!!!!

Posted by: Genghis at April 11, 2003 02:00 PM
Absolutely bring in the Mounties. They're an honorable bunch, and most Canadians are as well. Canada has a long history of strong fighters and good men to have beside you in a battle; I'd say the Mounties carry on the tradition in the context of law enforcement. Although Chretien is the one officially offering, I think we should accept with the knowledge that it's really an offer from the Canadians who stand with us in heart even as their leader weasels.

Posted by: susanna at April 11, 2003 02:03 PM
That train's already out of the station, Jean.

Most Canadians are great, but Chretien is a snivelling weasel. Take off, Hoser!

Posted by: Chris at April 11, 2003 02:17 PM
Totally agree with those who have said that Canada is still a great friend of the USA, in spite of the actions of the PM. Any help Canada can give us will be greatly appreciated. This is an offer that should be gratefully accepted.

Posted by: Larry at April 11, 2003 02:27 PM
Maybe it has something to do with this

Posted by: jen suozzi at April 11, 2003 02:50 PM
Steve : I suspect they would have offered earlier, if they (or anyone else) had any idea Iraq would need policing so soon. Remember, even our own planners were caught short on this one.

Posted by: Jrm at April 11, 2003 02:53 PM
True, Jrm. It appears that the swiftness of victory/collapse of the regime has surprised even the Coalition leadership.

In any event, the RCMP would be a welcome sight in Baghdad for everyone involved. We Americans are experts and charging in; we're not as good right now at the stuff afterwards, so help is welcome, probably necessary.

I'm sure most of the people here know it, but Canadian troops were an integral part of the Normandy invasion. And they've been helping out - and losing lives - in Afghanistan.

Posted by: Steve at April 11, 2003 03:02 PM
The line to help started about four weeks ago. You sided with the wrong folks.

Posted by: Patrick Grote at April 11, 2003 03:05 PM
In defence of Chretien: Canada didn't oppose the war. It opposed the war without a UN resolution. It tried to find a middle ground between the members of the security council so that the war would have UN authorization.

Canada is a middle power, and its best interests lie in having strong international security organizations, however flawed.

I think most Canadians - likely even Chretien - now realize they were on the wrong side with this war.

Personally, I thought we should have said what Japan did: We're with you all the way. Let us know when it's over and we'll be glad to help clean things up.

I know most members of the Canadian Forces wish they were in Iraq.

Anyone who wants to really attack Canada for staying out of this war should remember that later this year 1,000 Canadians are going to Kabul to work as peace keepers. And Canadian troops were there with the Americans fighting the Taliban.

Posted by: skeptical Steve at April 11, 2003 03:23 PM
This is so sad because I'm Canadian.
Breaking News From Canada!!

Canada announced earlier this morning, that it is now prepared to assist the United States in its war against terrorism. They have to commit 2 of their largest battleships, 6,000 armed troops and 60 fighter jets!

However, after the exchange rate ...
That comes down to a Canoe, 2 Mounties and a Flying Squirrel, named Rocky!

Posted by: Terry at April 11, 2003 03:49 PM
everybody knows Rocky the Squirrel was from Frostbite Falls Minnesota, he went to Canada to avoid the draft.

Posted by: Genghis at April 11, 2003 05:07 PM
The RCMP is thin, underfunded and having difficulty recruiting quality people for its activities inside Canada. There's not much they could do for a country the size of Iraq, except help Jean C. scrape together a legacy as a statesman.

The only reason the U.S. might want them is that it would make rebuilding Iraq appear more "international", defusing some of the sniping.

Posted by: Helpisontheway at April 11, 2003 05:32 PM
Any help is good, as long as it doesn't have too many strings. Invite them!

Posted by: me at April 11, 2003 08:45 PM
Susana had it right.

and as far as the RCMP go, thats a police force with 60,000 members, hardly an under funded unit, it's almost as large as the army in Canada.

I'm Canadian, and also a military man. I know whats going on all over the place.
I'm just really embarassed that my government did what it did. It doesn't make me embarassed to be a Canadian, it does make me embarassed of my government.
I have been to Bosnia, East timor, but sadly, too old to go to Afghanistan, I spend 23 years in the service, been shot 2 times, Timor and Bosnia.

I don't think any American serviceman would say we are anything but top gun millitary, despite our small army. when we go to do a job, we do it.

Other posts here are correct, about 74% of canadians stand behind the Bush government. Thats better than American polls say about Americans.
we have more pro American rallies and they out number the anti war rallies, but it never seems to get in the news.

I am deeply proud of the American servicemen who went and did an Amazing job.
I'm proud of some of them even more so, because I have personally trained some in our exchange program.
Way to go guys!!!
(watch out for those snow snakes)
Any serviceman who trained under me knows what that means.

I am not proud however of my government, because I was not allowed to join these men, and share in the victory. I have to retire soon, and now, because of this crappy government, I will retire from the service with shame. Thank you Jean Cretien, you french a$$hole
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, there you have it. You know, that contemptuous superiority that many American "good ol' boys" possess is part of the reason that so many people around the world dislike Americans in general. I'm glad you're not ALL like that.

Also, there's been several arrests recently, of people suspected to be involved in terrorist activities, around the Montreal area, as well as Toronto, Ottowa, even Vancouver. So Canada is NOT turning a blind eye to it all. We can arrest them, but we need something pretty substantial to convict them. Same thing going on in the US court rooms, I would think.

An example
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Third man in suspected terrorist roundup released from detention on bail

By MARLENE HABIB

TORONTO (CP) - A Pakistani doctor who's among 21 men arrested in a federal probe of suspected al-Qaida activities became the third person to be released on bail after a detention review Wednesday determined there aren't reasonable grounds to keep him in custody.

Muhammad Naeem, 34, was ordered released on $15,000 bail by Mary Ann Stoddart, the member of the Immigration and Refugee Board overseeing the review. Stoddart said although Naeem engaged in questionable activities such as having documents listing two different addresses as his residence, his behaviour "is not special or unusual" among potential new immigrants.

While the Immigration Department is taking reasonable steps to investigate Naeem, there appear to be no grounds to suspect he poses a security threat or would fail to appear for a hearing to determine if he should remain in Canada, Stoddart ruled in releasing Naeem to live with Toronto taxi owner Akbar Ali Virk, who posted his bail.

Naeem joins Mohammad Akhtar and Saif Ullah Khan as the only suspects released from detention in reviews held over the past week. Many of the suspects in the public reviews failed to win release, while four other suspects had their reviews held in private, so their names and details of their cases can't be released.

Tariq Shah, lawyer for Naeem and Akhtar, said the release of the three men signals there's little evidence linking them with any illegal activities.

"Now the members (of the immigration board) realize there is no hard evidence against them," Shah said in an interview. "Immigration officials have completely failed to connect my clients to the allegations they have levied."

All the suspects have been held at the Maplehurst correctional facility in Milton, Ont., on suspicions they are members of an al-Qaida terrorist cell whose activities included taking measurements of landmarks such as the CN Tower, and staking out the Pickering, Ont., nuclear power plant.

No charges have been laid in the investigation, but under tough new immigration laws, arrests can be made simply on the basis of having a reasonable suspicion that someone poses a security threat.

In his review, Naeem was described as a self-employed Pakistani doctor who came to Canada in November 2001 to upgrade his medical qualifications.

Naeem testified that he registered his driver's licence and other car papers using a Hamilton address to avoid paying higher insurance rates as a result of living in Toronto.

Edith DeCaire, the federal government's counsel, said Naeem was among many of the other men arrested in the probe who possessed forged documentation claiming they enrolled in the defunct Ottawa Business School.

DeCaire added that some of the evidence involving Naeem is likely among the 25 boxes of documents and other materials that are currently being catalogued by RCMP and immigration officials.

The review was also told that during the RCMP bust of 19 of the suspects on Aug. 14, pictures of airplane schematics and guns were found on Naeem's apartment wall.

However, Shah, who represents seven of the 21 men arrested in the Project Thread probe, told Stoddart that Naeem's arrest was based simply on his ethnicity, which is "unbecoming of Canada."

Shah also said some of his clients have been moved into their own cells at Maplehurst because they've been attacked by other inmates.

As a result of the attacks, said Shah, his clients have been moved to cells away from the other inmates.

A spokesman for the province's Ministry of Public Safety and Security wouldn't comment specifically on the allegations.

"There have been no incidents at Maplehurst correctional centre prior or subsequent to the 19 detainees being there," Bruce O'Neill said. "There have been no incidents of attacks."

Fears of being associated with Project Thread - which also alleges some of the suspects experimented with explosives - also led a man to reconsider his offer to post bail for Imran Younas Khan, who also had his detention review Wednesday.

Khan, 31, was ordered to remain in detention until Oct. 1 or earlier pending arrangements for his next detention review.

The reviews continue Friday with one more case, involving Manzoor Qadar Joyia.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the two duty-ditchers....pardon my ignorance, but is this a criminal offense? If not, what grounds do we have for deporting them? God forbid their personal rights are not held in the highest of esteem. How many voices would cry out "UNFAIR!UNFAIR!!" if we did that? Besides that, why would the US military want them anyway, now that they've demonstrated that don't support the effort anymore? They'd probably just campaigne against it while they were there, and sway opinions over to their way of thinking while they were at at. That would be of no use whatsoever, toward the goal.