posted April 30, 2004 03:30 PM            

Thursday, April 29, 2004
Ted Turner, 'Environmentalist' Driller

Ted Turner has an embarrassing amount of gas. Embarrassing, that is, for an "environmentalist."

"The media mogul gives millions to environmental and conservation causes, but finds himself in the awkward position of having to drill more gas wells on his pristine wilderness ranch in New Mexico," the New York Post reported today in an article headlined "Ted sacrifices green goals for greenbacks."

"Having to"? More like wanting to.

"Some environmentalists have been on the warpath in Washington, D.C., for months to control gas exploration in his area and along the eastern face of the Rocky Mountains."

Now that energy prices are soaring, Turner is already doubling the number of gas wells to 1,060 on his Vermejo Park Ranch, which is three-quarters of the size of Rhode Island and contains billions of dollars in coal and methane.

Jane Fonda's jet-setting ex prides himself on his supposedly green ways. One of those tactics: hiding those awful drilling rigs behind trees, according to the Post.

Apparently if you can't see it, it doesn't exist.

Perhaps the tycoon's beloved United Nations could protect his pristine wilderness by declaring it an "international biosphere reserve."

posted May 02, 2004 11:45 PM            

You're a very smart lady TINK so I don't know why I have to point out to you that most of us don't give a flying flip that Ted Turner owns land holdings near the size of some states, that he holds gas and other mineral rights on that land worth billions. We don't envy Turner any of his success, any of his wealth or anything else that is his. We don't care if he triples the number of wells he drills and gets richer.

The point of all this is that if any one of us had those holdings, Ted Turner would be in the vanguard of those opposed to increased drilling, increased use of our own land, land we purchased with our own money. Ted Turner and those on the left would be haranguing us, filing lawsuits and using every device possible to prevent us from the lawful use of our own resources, our own land and reaping the benefits and wealth from our own holdings that we risked our money to acquire.

And yet, here is Ted Turner, one of those who call themselves "friends of the earth" engaged in what he himself would call raping the earth, creating potential environmental disasters and doing it to acquire more wealth, wealth, the bane of leftists. And does Ted Turner need more wealth? Ted Turner could not possibly spend all the wealth he already has, no matter how extravagant his lifestyle.

Do we care that Ariana Huffington owns a 50,000 square foot bungalow for one, that she flies on private jets? Do we care that Norman Lear owns a very large mansion that is suitable in size for a hotel and could house multiple families and that he has a 21 car garage full of gas guzzling cars? Do we care that one of the Kennedy's flies on private jets to and from locations all over America? Do we care that Michael Moore outsources his work to a Canadian company?

I say no, we don't give a damn about any of that. But we are not amused when these same people harangue us about our own use of resources, harangue corporations for outsourcing, harangue us about the use of our own property, property including SUV's we acquired with our own money and for them to lecture us while engaged in activities far worse than anything we are able to muster is the most gross hypocrisy imaginable.

Do as I say, not as I do----right?

posted May 03, 2004 12:33 PM              

First - I did not bring up Mr Limbaugh. He has been referred to many times before. Please reread my post. I was defending him. I voiced the opinion that those who would accuse Mr Moore of hypocrisy would not appreciate Mr Limbaugh being accused of the same. As I said, intention often does not match performance. This is human. I am often guilty of it myself. This realization and acknowledgement keeps me from being mean-spirited when others fail. I've no doubt that Mr Limbaugh did not wish to become a drug addict legal or otherwise - and no I don't believe there's much of a difference. Better men then he have fallen to that particular demon. And I've no reason to doubt that Mr Turner cares about the environment. As do most of us, perhaps he cares more for his wallet.

Second - with all due respect Jwhop, you do not know my side of the issue. My hope lies beyond the best, and the worst, of men.

Third - no need to point out that you don't care if Mr Turner is rich. I did not accuse you of such. All I can say of the rich is, good luck squeezing yourself through the eye of that needle. I don't understand why you would defend yourself on this point if I did not attack.

Fourth - As for the "but all the other kids do it, so why can't I?" defense, if Mr Turner pointed out your environmental sins would his sins be your defense? Are you telling us about his hypocrisy because you want to help him be a better person or are you trying to make yourself feel better? I answer to my God and my Higher Self and fu*k the rest. How about you?

It makes me terribly sad to witness so many decent, intelligent, thoughtful people fall prey to this Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal mode of thinking. It is a diversion, a game. A very basic me against you game. Do you really think there is a difference? Keeps you all busy though, doesn't it?

posted May 04, 2004 10:52 AM            

So,how does anybody think the time will be that it will take before JWhop and his fellow "Sidewalk Comandos" will run everybody out of Lindaland?

posted May 04, 2004 10:58 AM            

The rules apply to ALL who slip into name calling/insults.

posted May 04, 2004 01:19 PM            

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it will fight for a mosque to be able to broadcast daily prayers in Illinois but not for the ten commandments to be on a piece of granite outside a courthouse

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It's not the same thing. I don't know details of these things but from what you've posted, Isis, it sounds like you are comparing the broadcasting by a private company to the display of religious writings on the property of a U.S. Government building which is in violation of the separation between church and state.
Apples and oranges, really.

posted May 04, 2004 02:01 PM            

I think some have schewed the concept of "seperation of church and state". This country was founded by christians, its most basic tenets founded on christian morals and beliefs. Seperation of church and state was meant to preclude anything that could be remotely construed as a Theocracy, or an official state religion. NOT to remove all vestiges of God from anything remotely connected to The State.

Anyway, I see it as a huge hypocracy, they will fight for the rights of muslims to hold to their religion, but fight AGAINST the rights of Christians for the same.

Not apples and oranges at all IMO.

It's another example of "do as I say, not as I do"...

posted May 04, 2004 02:24 PM            

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Seperation of church and state was meant to preclude anything that could be remotely construed as a Theocracy, or an official state religion.

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And having the Ten Commandments in the courthouse isn't promoting a state religion?

Do you think they would be cool putting some pentagrams up in the four corners of the courthouse too? If not, then I don't see how it's possible to argue that having only Judeo-Christian symbols in state buildings isn't promoting a state religion.

posted May 04, 2004 03:58 PM            

Maybe I don't feel like going into deep discussions "with you and people like you" only because you have this seriously rude knack into taking someone's post and breaking it all down from sentence to sentence,so why DON'T we start and stick to that topic,hmmmm? Who do think you are,some kind of right wing school teacher or something, only to do it those that contrast to your lofty ideologies,but it's all good with you if someone else did that, that happened to be the side you chose to be on and whatever that would ever be, it sure does make a good case into what you have mangaged to set your sights upon and you ain't even shy with it,you will attack ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T AGREE TO WHAT YOU COME TO BELIEVE IN,rather then just listening to anyother point of view! So why SHOULD I bother? Are you the nemesis that is trying divert the conversation into what anybody else is trying to make that coincides of what YOU think it SHOULD be?! How dare you! What do you think that it's only YOUR opinion that really matters for the sake of anybody elses that happen to bare the same burden that we ALL must bare?! But no,"you and people like you" have manage to find you way out of carrying that cross though too, by literally "kissing up" to the "higher up", thinking that you will recieve some specail brownies points,you probably are or you will,but how pathetic can one be?!

Jwhop likes to boastfully acclaim, "...to do unto others as you would like them to do onto you?" NO JW,I prefer NOT,for you see my friend, I'm not the one to extinguished 3,000 innocent lives on a beautiful, sunny, September morning,I'm not the one that hires assassins to strick out as a coup d’état against my own people that live under the TRUST for me to protect them over such falsehoods...for the VANGUARD to appose the least of likely assailant to appease the real perpetrators that once resided and still resides in Saudi Arabia, I'm not the one that points the finger at others for being a "killer and thug" sympathizer,just because (they in they're hearts)feel that either maybe war is not the answer or that maybe the leadership is going the wrong way with the abuse of they're powers,I'm not the one that justifies the cause into persuading others to believe that they might be delusional over the fact that there might be even a fine line between prescribe medicine and illegal street drugs for the sake of a man that once came to that assumption, just to go under the same persuasion,when I see plainly that these teenagers are DEAD or DYING from the same crap that they can easily receive over the internet or breaking into drug stores to go even as far as to getting something that is "over the counter"?

You talk about SUVs and waisting gas,so what do you drive with the much money that you have,a BMW or a Porsche?

You know,you guys can do anything that you please and the little dirty methods that you apply to them can only be hearting,but in the end, none of your arguements are going to move me or anybody else like me ever closer to your side, when I know what I see and I see with my eyes and I feel with my heart and I know what's going on in my perspective that I can see in and I'm not the only one either,you know. You might not stand alone,but neither do I over how we both feel,but remember this,no matter what,if it goes any further then just a mere dissagreement from the side you are on,you can bet your life that their will always be people like me that will always be against people like you,to stop you in your tracks!

posted May 04, 2004 04:21 PM            

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Are you the new Moderator or something Isis, because the last time I've checked it said knowflake under your name,no no,ok with no insults,right? OK.

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Umm, where does this come from, besides out of left field, I didn't say I was a mod, nor say anything that could be construed as such either.

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Maybe I don't feel like going into deep discussions "with you and people like you" only because you have this seriously rude knack into taking someone's post and breaking it all down from sentence to sentence,

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Yes, because it's the easiest way to address the things you say, keep the points clear, etc.

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so why DON'T we start and stick to that topic,hmmmm?

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Who do think you are,some kind of right wing school teacher or something

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only to do it those that contrast to your lofty ideologies,

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but it's all good with you if someone else did that,

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that happened to be the side you chose to be on and whatever that would ever be

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it sure does make a good case into what you have mangaged to set your sights upon

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and you ain't even shy with it,you will attack ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T AGREE TO WHAT YOU COME TO BELIEVE IN,

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rather then just listening to anyother point of view!

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So why SHOULD I bother?

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Are you the nemesis that is trying divert the conversation into what anybody else is trying to make that coincides of what YOU think it SHOULD be?! How dare you!

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What do you think that it's only YOUR opinion that really matters for the sake of anybody elses that happen to bare the same burden that we ALL must bare?!

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But no,"you and people like you" have manage to find you way out of carrying that cross though too, by literally "kissing up" to the "higher up", thinking that you will recieve some specail brownies points,

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You talk about SUVs and waisting gas,so what do you drive with the much money that you have,a BMW or a Porsche?

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You know,you guys can do anything that you please and the little dirty methods that you apply to them can only be hearting,

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but in the end, none of your arguements are going to move me or anybody else like me ever closer to your side,

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when I know what I see and I see with my eyes and I feel with my heart and I know what's going on in my perspective that I can see in and I'm not the only one either,you know. You might not stand alone,but neither do I over how we both feel,but remember this,no matter what,if it goes any further then just a mere dissagreement from the side you are on,you can bet your life that their will always be people like me that will always be against people like you,to stop you in your tracks!

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...and that's not a threat,that's a promise! Grade THAT paper,ISIS!

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posted May 04, 2004 04:58 PM            

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Umm, where does this come from, besides out of left field, I didn't say I was a mod, nor say anything that could be construed as such either.

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spam

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Yes, because it's the easiest way to address the things you say, keep the points clear, etc.

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spam

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OK

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spam

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No

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spam

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Yes, of course, because what use it is to rebut something I agree with? Oh, and lofty is your word, not mine. I would argue that yours are lofty, while mine are based in reality.

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more spam

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Yes, of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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more spam

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I cannot control what others choose to write, whether they're on "my side" or not...

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more spam

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And what, per chance, would that be according to you?

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spam

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I do not attack, I debate, refute, rebut. I do not attack. You are the one that routinely attacks.

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spam

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This is a messageboard, is it not? I read what is said, if I disagree, I post my (opposing) opinion) You disagree w/ me, feel free to post a rebuttal. I do the same. Unless Randall says everyone here must agree or stfu, yes of course

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I spam

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Because you want to be heard and understood? I don't know. Only you can answer that.

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...if I spam or not

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So, what you're saying is that you view an opposing opinion as an attempt to divert a convesation? Or perhaps it is merely that I am posting a contrary opinion?

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....even if does come as the form of spam!

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Everyone here is entitled to disagree, if I thought only my opinion mattered, I would hardly be on a messageboard debating with people like you - I would sit at home living in a comfy cocoon of self-righteousness.

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...spamming on other messageboards with people like you!

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Good try. No, people like me are not afraid to stand up to verbal bullies like you. I don't need to kiss anyone's ass. My words speak for themselves. People agree with me, or they don't. It's their right. Just because I may be of a similar political persuasion by chance, is nothing more than what it is. Not some conspiratorial attempt to get people on my side and turn them on you.

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Bless you Jwhop, you are The Man.

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“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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Presumption.

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Do tell, what are these "dirty little methods" you perceive?

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Unlike you Oz, that is not my goal, my goal is to be heard and understood, not to "convert" people to my way of thinking.

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And vice versa

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Grow up.

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REALLY ISIS!

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Oh, and the reason you rarely see me come behind someone I agree with and chime in with further agreement, is that I endeavor not to be perceived as ganging up. If Jwhop had something to say that made sense, unless I have something new or different to add, why come in the back side and restate my agreement? The only thing that can come of that is a sense of being ganged up on by the person Jwhop is speaking to. The one time I will do that is when I percieve that person as being ganged up on, or when I perceive someone as being attacked.

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Bless you Jwhop, you are The Man.

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“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

posted May 04, 2004 05:58 PM            

Now was that supposed to be constructive, juvenile, or some variation thereof?