posted June 28, 2004 11:45 AM              

It's an internet service just for you! Check it out at http://www.idleworm.com/nws/2002/12/aol10.shtml

Happy surfing!

posted June 28, 2004 01:14 PM            

Hope not because the first prominent line on the opening page of the website you linked said this:

Hey...if you're not doing anything wrong then why do you need privacy?

Understand paras, I've been down this same road with many liberals who complain about the loss of rights under the Patriot Act and the Bush administration. So, let me ask you, (with all due regard for your fingers), since none of the liberals were ever able to respond or at least didn't.

posted June 28, 2004 02:49 PM              

The Patriot Act says to me that we MUST keep a MORE watchful eye on our government because they KNOW many Americans just aren't paying attention.

posted June 28, 2004 04:23 PM              

Let us start at the beginning, eh? Always a good place to start, I so believe.

posted June 28, 2004 07:16 PM              

"..........What is the solution to this dilemma? Do those of us wise enough to recognize the mythologies and the bull **** that priest and politicians hand out decide that we have no choice but to go along with the program of inducing guilt, intimidating the ignorant, propagandizing the uneducated, and bribing the electorate as it has been practiced by the churches, governments, and teachers for thousands of years?
Or, do we shout out the truth? Do we admit to ourselves, and tell anyone who wants to listen that sacrificing for the common good makes no rational sense, that the only way to achieve the common good is to make every thing a pay-as-you-go proposition with the free market place determining what the price of every commodity and benefit will be? Moreover, do we make a rational decision to take every legal advantage of the common good and the common treasure for as long as others are willing to believe in the myths that teach it is better to serve the common good rather than look out for one's own selfish interests?
Indeed, do we dare examine the very concept that there even is such a thing as the common good? Or is that idea as mythical as the morality that claims humans must put aside their own interest in order to serve the interest of the community?
In reality, society is always a chaotic mixture of competing needs in which the needs and wants of no two individuals ever match. No matter how much you may want tax supported public schools, I'll remain convinced that public schools are a failed social experiment that should be junked. Some argue that the war on drugs does more damage to society than drug addiction could ever do. Do agricultural subsidies really serve the common good of the consumer who must pay higher prices at the food counter?
There is not a single major political issue in modern America in which there is anything approaching a consensus agreement about what action must be taken in the common good.
Would a society in which no one gave a damn about the common good, be such a bad place to live?
Such a society would not put the butcher, the baker, or the farmer out of business. We all must count on other people, but the best way to make sure that someone does what we want them to do is to return the favor by performing for them what they perceive to be an equal favor. That's what the free market is all about.
If you really think about it, we already live in a society in which every individual is really looking out for their own self interest. It's just that we've allowed too many people to glibly lie that they were supporting the common good when all they are really interested in is their own selfish rewards. They lie about their love for the common good because they want to take advantage of our gullibility to get what they want out of the system. That includes every person who now holds political office and every person who is trying to get elected. Throwing the current bunch out and replacing them is not going to solve the problem.
But what about the voter's paradox? How do we solve that problem?
Why bother? If we give up the idea that people should sacrifice for the common good, we take away most of the justification for the politician. In a free society, voting shouldn't count for much.

posted June 29, 2004 12:02 AM            

Perhaps we did jump the track back there in the dim past.

That is the inevitable result of NO government paras, so how long do you think it would take your idea to reduce the world population to half of today's total? Do you think you would be one of the survivors?

Most anarchists haven't really thought it all through, now have they? What they really want is to continue enjoying all the benefits of society without being subject to any of the rules or laws.

Sorry, it's a package deal.

LibraSparkle

Every law, rule, policy and procedure could lead to something in that in every case they restrict your freedom to do something you could do before or compel you to do something you didn't have to do before they came into existence.

Hmmmm, keep off the grass.

posted June 29, 2004 06:59 AM              

quote:

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No government needed, eh paras? Sounds like you're arguing for natures natural selection of the species. Law of the jungle where the stupid didn't survive long enough to pass their genes on to the next generation.

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Exactly.

quote:

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That is the inevitable result of NO government paras, so how long do you think it would take your idea to reduce the world population to half of today's total? Do you think you would be one of the survivors?

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Answer to question A: Too long! Answer to question B: Who knows?

And 26taurus! Gods bless you, you amaze me! I so needed to hear some clear thinking from another human being! And this from an Earth sign yet! You give me hope for your elemental brothers and sisters. They are usually so damnably rooted in the Maya, and have frustrated me, misunderstood me, and reviled me to no end.

posted June 29, 2004 08:04 AM              

When a government reaches excessive proportions (and I think we have) then I see only two possibilities: a) the people are stupid (where are you Michael Moore? )and need more tending to or b) the men in power enjoy that power too much and want more of it

Jwhop ~ Your a wise man. If there is a 3rd possibility, please enlighten me. But please don't give me the "well, there's more of us so we need more government" crap. I don't believe it. Not to this extreme.
At any rate, concerning the Patriot Act, I think LibraSparkle has a point. If Bush can take us to war based on what Iraq might do, then I reserve the right to wonder where the Patriot Act might lead. I think Thomas told you to be ever watchful. He told me too. In these circumstances I believe it's good to be a little paranoid.

posted June 29, 2004 02:34 PM              

Nope, no reviling from this Bull! I always love everything you have to post. You usually take the words right out of my mouth. I'm in love with your brain, and think I have a bit of a crush on you. If I was single I'd ask you out on a date. Ahhhh yes. We could live by the Laws of the Jungle and pass on our genius genes to the next generation. Just to insure the survival of the human race.
We could save the world!! No one would watch TV or eat microwaved food.
Hey, I can daydream - can't I?

Anyway, I dont need ANYONE telling me what to do or how to live or think. ESPECIALLY not the GOVERNMENT! I'll make up my own mind - THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
(that's the strong Aquarius in my chart, and Mars square Uranus talkin', don't mind me)

posted June 29, 2004 03:46 PM            

Ask yourself why you feel compelled to judge others. Ask yourself if this is not an opportunity to recognize that truth is subjective, that your truth is not the only truth.

From what I can see, you are a fraud.

posted June 29, 2004 05:42 PM              

Isis, I don't attempt to portray myself as anything. That would be useless. One person cannot control the mind of another. So why would I even try?

I simply am what I am. And one of the things I am is human. Some days I am centered, and wisdom speaks to me. Some days I am overwhelmed by petty emotions like frustration, sadness, anger, depression, etc. etc.. On those days, I am not so wise. I make no attempt to conceal this from anyone here. I trust you all to see the same waves in yourself, and to understand, as I try to do the same.

"Sanctimonious" is your interpretation, dear Isis, not my reality. And you are welcome to it.

If you are truly interested in the ways one person appears to another, perhaps you should consider how it looks when you react angrily to someone suggesting you could learn something.

You were right about one thing, though. I am a want-to-be sage. I thought we all were...?

Tell you what, the best thing a friend can do for me, in my opinion, is to call me on my bull****. By which I mean, to correct me when he/she sees me embracing ideas that are not worthy of an enlightened mind. That's all I was doing for you. I figured, we're both reaching for enlightenment, right? Why not keep each other's sights set high? Surely you know as well as I do that there's no such thing as "bad people" and "good people". That's a very, very limited and dim view of things. Those people some call "bad" are no different than you or me. They are just people, doing bad things because they don't know a better way to react to their pain. Psychology taught me this -- ALL anger is a translation of pain. That's where its roots are. When you see someone angry, you are seeing someone who has been hurt, and is trying to avoid the feeling. Realizing this, I am able to keep from reacting angrily to you even though your calling me a fraud hurt -- I just accept the pain, and let it run its course instead of translating it to anger and trying to direct it back at its source.

posted June 29, 2004 09:35 PM              

(Whatever happened to just being a man with his own ideas?)

posted June 30, 2004 07:29 AM              

quote:

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Well, not to pin a label on you, but a society without a governing body to enforce appropriate conduct, is simply anarchy.

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I see. And who is to be the judge of "appropriate behavior"? Will this wise man sit in an Oval Office? Will he wear a suit and sign papers of law? Bah! A dusty carpenter from Nazareth did a better job.

quote:

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We came from that, and fought for our survival many a long year, but we eventually evolved to the sophisticated societal structure that we have today, and it was all born out of necessity, as determined by the collective.

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"Sophisticated"?

And "the collective"? Careful there, you wouldn't want to sound like a SOCIALIST, now, would you?

There is no collective. "The collective" is a perception. A bunch of individuals is the reality.

quote:

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If we were to eliminate that factor altogether, well, we'd be right back at square one, in the stone ages, where you had human predators running amock, women and children and elderly, and men who were not as strong as their opponents being victimized in a daily basis. Heck, we STILL have that element in our society.

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You're right, we do still have that element in our society. Why did you so successfully disprove your own point there? Doesn't leave anything for me to do.

quote:

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Take away the forces that enforce appropriate, non harmfull behavior, and we'd have anarchy.

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So you're one of those who believe that humans are basically evil?

quote:

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You can bet on that. If you truly believe otherwise, you've lost touch with reality. AGAIN.

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Or perhaps I'm in touch with a much deeper level of reality than you're used to. You are shielded from reality by your belief in the "collective", in government. You put your trust in these humans who tell you they can control the forces of chaos, put order to the spontanaeity of the universe. Well, they can't. Never have been able to, never will be able to. It's very like the way they think the Earth is just here as a natural resource for us to exploit. The Earth's got a suprise for us... and the nature of reality has a suprise for you. All civilizations, all governments fall. Do you think that when this one -- or "yours" -- does fall, that the human race will just die out? That we can't survive without "collective" control measures? Think again. We'll be here long after words like "democracy" and "republic" have been forgotten. There will still be pain and pleasure. There will still be selfishness and compassion. Whether or not anyone legislates it to us.

quote:

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The only people who would advocate such a society, are eithor living in la-la-land, or they are the predators that victimize the weak. Which one are you, Paras?

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So, you are saying that there is no other alternative? Strange, but I can think of one. I can imagine myself living in an "anarchic" society without victimizing the weak. In fact, I'd probably be busy teaching the weak how to be strong. Everything starts with the mind, including strength. I am not so weak that I need other people to make my decisions for me, or to "protect me from myself". I'm perfectly happy taking the consequences of my actions directly from Life itself. La-la land, indeed. Politics and religion are la-la land, comfortable delusions that the weak lean on like crutches. Why did you ask if I was a predator? Are you afraid?

posted June 30, 2004 11:39 AM              

And I did not disprove my own point by reminding you that people are victimized on a daily basis. I'm saying, if you take away the elements that discourage predatorial behavior in our society, you will see that type of behavior running rampant, ie - ANARCHY. With no consequences to worry about, it would be a bloody free-for-all.

I'm not saying people are all evil, I'm saying SOME are extremely unevolved, and capeable of excessive cruelty and selfishness at the expense of everyone else.

You seem to see the world in terms of US and THEM, like any human being who works for the system, ie police force, government agency, judicial system, etc, are of another race. They are the "THEM" race, and you are of the "US" race. Common mentality of the ignorant. THEY are just regular people, who do a job...a job that came into existance out of necessity.

So, you figure you know better what's good for society than centuries of experience, hardship, and the proverbial hard-knocks has brought us to, huh? That's pretty arrogant, Paras. You're on the planet for...what 30 years maybe? 20? 15? And you got it all figured out what society SHOULD be, and it's nothing like what it is. Geez, too bad you weren't around at the inception point, maybe you could have prevented anything from being established in the first place with your superior intellegence and ultra-high level of evolution, you visionary you.

And the "collective" refers to the denizens of a society, those who have to live in that society, and have found certain aspects to be intolerable.

posted June 30, 2004 01:14 PM              

If there's only "US", then WE are the "predators".