posted July 05, 2004 06:00 AM              

See it and see how you feel, July 4, 2004
Reviewer: kirman4 (FIVE STAR RATING)

As of this writing, 330 reviews have been posted for this movie. I am certain that those who rated it below 3 stars either haven't seen it or are being dishonest. This movie is extaordinary and disturbing in its footage, content, and especially its presentation. If you see it, it (at least the last hour) will shake you out of your current, comfortable mindset and into a more subtantive and questioning sensibility. I left thinking, 'We're not the country we used to be. Conservative, liberal--who cares? We need to hold our leaders to task when they endanger innocent lives and undermine American values and principles.' We need to be more observant and more demanding of our country's leaders, regardless of political affiliation.

Time for changes, July 4, 2004
Reviewer: waynestedman (FIVE STAR RATING)

Thank you Leonardo, an Argentine film distributor living in paris in the nineties, for putting Michael on the Map by getting distribution rights for his "roger and me" in France, which is influential despite what you may have heard. This has led to the Cannes prize this year and Moore entered the american alphabet as a real player.

It doesnt matter if most people will think Fahrenheit is some kind of a new diet pill. Or summer ice cream flavor. The buzz will get around. If only for a few minutes of fame.

But all of Michael's guidance will go for naught if people continue not to vote. But he we are all right now, for instance, gathered in an America moment. Enjoy.

The Iraq thing is temporary. It is our flavor of the moment. But our voting problem is permanent.

All americans should be voting on all issues, national and county and state and city over a two day period of July 3 and 4. Dump those November elections. There are no longer Colonial era hay harvests to get in.

Strike while the iron is hot. So this year the People, who despite Capra are not always right, know the dif between Iran and Iraq, normally just more four letter words to ignore.

Change will take a constitutional amendment, and that takes a lot of time and effort. Look at Moore's film, talk about it, force people to buy tickets, get out of the car and go see it at some commercial Mall place near them.

The emporer has no clothes!, July 4, 2004
Reviewer: dumpbushn2004 (FIVE STAR RATING)

Kudos to Michael Moore for finally breaking the juggernaut that the media, this administration and the war supporters have forced on many people in this country, who like the rest of the world community see this war for what it is, an illegal invasion and occupation. The film also does an excellent job of shining a bright light thrown on the whole corruption scheme of lobbyists and corporations eager to bilk both Americans and Iraqis for fat war and oil profits. On 9/11 Bin Laden attacked two representative pillars of strength in our country (our economic power in the WTC and military at the Pentagon.) But after 9/11 the Bush administration and its unquestioning hawkish supporters set about trying to destroy the other pillars of strength themselves - by trying to silence or threaten our freedom of speech (Ari Fleischer's creepy response about Bill Maher for example), ignoring the Geneva Conventions, abusing and eroding our Constitutional rights, and destroying our alliances and our reputation abroad. This movie is nothing but a blessing, and strong sign of hope that democracy and a chance to return our country back to the right course still exists. Thank you, Mr. Moore.

How can Bush supporters, July 4, 2004
Reviewer: christyneh (FOUR STAR RATING)

defend a man who made the choice to go into a pre-arranged photo op, instead of taking the lead in defending our country. Bush had been advised, prior to going into the elementary school on 9/11, that a commercial jet airliner had crashed into one of the World Trade Centers. This just one month after being told of "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States".

Seriously, you people need to see this movie if you honestly care about the future of this country.

Who Are The Sheep?, July 3, 2004
Reviewer: antiignorance (FIVE STAR RATING)

This film is an amazing film. It could move mountains. Look at the bleating , hysterical, frenzied attacks on this movie from reviewers, then look at the positive reviews, then read this quote:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

That was said by Nazi Herman Goering in 1946

Stupid White Man, July 2, 2004
Reviewer: steved1627 (FIVE STAR RATING)

I am not a fan of Michael Moore, in fact, I consider him to be the "boomer" version of the "stupid white man", looking to create one-dimensional "feel-good" solutions to problems, such as poverty, that are inherent to the fabric of life, and asking government to redress these through programs that only create more problems.

I went to the movie because I could see it becoming a cultural event - I wanted to have an informed opinion. I was prepared to be upset and disgusted. Instead, despite not being in agreement with many of the points that were made, I was moved. And while I believe that the Iraqi people will eventually be better off, this movie convinced me that the attack on Iraq was motivated by oil economics - a fact that I would have disputed before.

But mostly this movie confirmed for me, on a gut level, something that has nagged at me for some time - that President Bush is an idiot not worthy of holding the Presidency, completing the impression for me of an affable but inept son of a rich man who has been thrust into power by a consortium.

I have even begun to entertain the horrifying notion of some form of complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

Brave New World, June 27, 2004
Reviewer: kevviej (FIVE STAR RATING)

If you see only one more movie in your life, make it Fahrenheit 911.

F 911 is a clarion call to engagement in the political process. It is a profound attempt to "Wake up America". And to remind every American that our vote counts globally!

As to the earlier reviewers who attack MM for his lack of higher education, I pity you.

Bravo Michael.

Let the sleepers awake.

See it with an American you love, June 30, 2004
Reviewer: jane1944 (FIVE STAR RATING)

An audience of nearly 2000 in my small town jumped to their feet in a heartfelt standing ovation! People wiped the tears from their eyes with their sleeves.

We've been trapped alone in the surreality of Orwellian "New Speak" for the last 3 1/2 years -- Bush-speak and Cheney-speak, Rummy-speak and Rice-speak. We've been hungry for the truth, watching the news alone or in atomized family units, sensing something doesn't make sense and wondering "Am I crazy?"

Moore's film says, "No, you are not crazy" and the feeling of having that simple human validation in the shared experience of an audience is nearly overwhelming. We are rising up in standing ovations to SHOW EACH OTHER how we feel. Moore's film is good and it has its faults (a few) -- and what's going on in the audience is a return to our senses of historic proportions.

F 9-11 plays the role of Joseph Cotten showing up in "Gaslight" and telling us (in the role played by Ingrid Bergman), "Bush has been 'Gaslighting' you." Such is the spell of surreality that this film breaks.

See it with an American you love.

Common Sense for the 21st Century, June 27, 2004
Reviewer: tjacoby3 (FIVE STAR RATING)

While I stood in line for Fahrenheit 9/11, I inferred from the crowd a sense of purpose; that viewing this film is not only a matter of education and confirmation of political suspicions, but viewing this film is a civic duty and patriotic obligation. I sensed history in the making. Paine's Common Sense was a rallying cry for American revolution, and so is Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11.

The cases made in the film are what every American citizen suspects and fears: that George W. Bush is not of leadership stock, that the U.S. has become an international bully, that our government serves an elite base, that our soldiers flee impoverished lives only to be gunned down for a dubious cause, and that the real terrorism is domestic, not abroad.

If it weren’t for the humor in Fahrenheit 9/11, I’d have left the film shocked with grief for a once noble U.S. now dictated by the plurality of Saudi dollars instead of the majority will of American people.

This film made me recall my dad teaching me the words to the national anthem and whistling America the Beautiful while hanging flags on the Fourth of July. It made me want to live in that day again.

Thank you Mr. Moore for creating such an eloquent work that recapitulates everything that Americans want to change about our country.

Better than Brilliant, July 3, 2004
Reviewer: cassiejakes (FIVE STAR RATING)

It's hard for me to match the articulate wit and obvious intelligence of the one-star reviewers, but I shall try. It is interesting how none of these reviewers give information that indicates they've seen the film. They are like dogs, barking when Master Limbaugh or Master Hannity says so.

This movie is extraordinary. Wittily written, niftily edited, rigorously researched and impeccably narrated, this should be enough to ensure a Best Actor nod to 'President' Bush when the Oscars roll around again.
Go see this movie. And to the people who accuse Mr Moore of being unpatriotic, can you please grow up, or at least learn to read the quotes below?

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it". (Edward R Murrow)

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public" (Theodore Roosevelt, a true Republican)

posted July 06, 2004 01:23 AM              

Looks like lotsa people are seeing and being moved by Michael's film. (Who'd have thunk it?)

Isn't it amazing how so many people can fall for all the lies and twisted stuff? (sayith I, with tongue in cheek )

I'll give them this tho...at least they saw the movie (which gives their views credence), before running their mouths about it...These folks are qualified to critique the film. Those who HAVEN'T SEEN IT are NOT!

How can anyone take seriously, anything anyone has to say about it, who hasn't seen it? Duh!

I read the book GONE WITH THE WIND...

....and I heard all about the movie....

so I should know something about it.....

posted July 06, 2004 02:00 AM            

It's propaganda IMO. No less obvious than if the Catholic Church were to produce a "documentary" demonizing Mormons.

I think if the leftist media and Chairman Moore would call it what it is, an editorial at best, instead of insisting it's "presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter" (a documentary), then there would be less agitation towards it from those who are not flaming left wingers.

I just don't understand how, when so many credible sources have come out against the "facts" of the allegations in this movie, people can blindly accept it all as the fact that it's deceptively presented as without question. I guess it's one of those things where people love to be agreed with - they'll believe just about anything that they perceive as somehow reinforcing their views.

Eyes wide shut, eh?

posted July 06, 2004 03:48 AM              

Fortunatly the picture I've had of the government has always been "black", so it wasnt earth shattering to me. I know when someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I'm a "sheep", according to some other "SHEEP" in this forum.
Baaaa! Baaaa! Black sheep.
That is ME! Thank you very much!

Take a look on MM's website to see that all of the facts are there, out in the open, he has put them all on the table, for openminded people to observe. Not people who are holding on to an illusion in their minds for dear life.

Everyone seems to have their own facts.
So one must look within to see what feels right, deep down in their gut. This film is hitting MANY people right in their guts.

The ones who don't seem to "get it", the ones who are screaming out "Don't believe him!", are the ones who are so afraid that their fantasy of what the president and our government is, is falling apart right before their eyes, that they don't know what else too do except scream "LIAR"!

Its scary when people start to wake up - open their eyes, and realize it's not just a bad dream - it is a living NIGHTMARE! It's too bad it has taken this long. And this is only the begining.

Who's right? Who's wrong? WHO CARES!!!!
What matters is things are really F***'d up in this world today!!!! And ALOT of this has to do with the people holding office.
Our own lovely government.
STOP TRYING TO PUT THE BLAME ON A PERSON AND HIS MOVIE!
If you can't WAKE UP and SEE that, there is nothing more I can say.

You put it best:
___________________________________________
"when so many credible sources have come out against the "facts" of the allegations in this movie, people can blindly accept it all as the fact that it's deceptively presented as without question. I guess it's one of those things where people love to be agreed with - they'll believe just about anything that they perceive as somehow reinforcing their views.

Eyes wide shut, eh?"
___________________________________________

........Yes! "eh" men!

So go ahead, say I'm a sheep! Say I've been brainwashed, I'm lazy, dumb, whatever you want! It just proves to me how much people are really CONTROLLED by these a******s.

And I've heard it all before so you might not want to waste your time.

This is the same ol' song and dance again and again. I'm dancin' to my own tune thanks. But I guess that's what closeminded "sheep" do right?

posted July 06, 2004 05:53 AM              

RAINBOW: I know several people who have seen GWTW and they said it was a horrible movie, and no one should waste their money on it....*sigh*....so since I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN IT AND EXPRESSED THEIR OPINION TO ME ABOUT IT I have the right to tell you and anyone else who will listen "Don't waste your time on this horrible, ugly, movie. as several of my friends have seen it and told me it's no good (in spite of rave reviews!)... Sorry! That don't wash."

posted July 06, 2004 05:33 PM            

But yes, change the subject to distract, right?

What's wrong with people like you Rainbow, is that you think you know where/what the light is, and you believe if people don't see that same light as you, they're stupid, sheep, misguided, etc.

I on the other hand, have no desire to 'enlighten' others (I leave that to themselves which I believe is the only place true enlightenment can come frome - within), I simply do not understand why people like you are so resistant to even considering that there could be lies in this film other than because you too much enjoy feeling your views are vindicated and revel in being agreed with.

My comments had to do with not understanding. I don't believe that I've ever posted telling people not to go see it, I've only posted my opinion on it - and as I've said before but you like to conveniently ignore it: I do not need to have murdered to have an opinion on murder. To the same degree, I can formulate an opinion on a film that bills itself as a documentary but is a propagandized editorial. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has em and they all stink. If I saw that film, I would just be angry at the blantant lies. I can take my friends words for it. Esp. considering they're not Republicans - but I'm sure in your mind you'll come up with some supposed 'bias' on their part, despite being leftists themselves.

I'm sure Chairman Moore's directorial skills don't suck, or he wouldn't win awards (although I do wonder what part of those awards were political kudos and whether there was true artistic kudos there - but without any facts nor having seen his films, I couldn't comment either way difinitively). But just because I know an author is talented, doesn't mean I want to read his work. It depends on the subject of the work.

26Taurus: as usual, you are just as fanatic and close-minded as you accuse the 'right wingers' of being. The comments about everyone else not getting it, it must feel very wonderful and superior to be on top, looking down upon all those who just 'don't get it'.

Why is it that both of you skirt around issues and refuse to address posts directly or answer questions, but just return to the same mantra. You're like a tape stuck in a loop.

posted July 06, 2004 10:09 PM              

Judgement is judgement, be it positive or negative.

posted July 06, 2004 11:52 PM              

The thing that troubles me, is that people who generally avoid politics, world affairs, national defence, the future, and any such subjects like a plague, and are therefore, admitedly ignorant in general about those subjects...are going to see THIS movie, and it is becoming pretty much the only point of view they have. And it's not even their own point of view, it's that of a man who's pov is very very slanted. In that case, this movie will serve as powerful, and effective PROPAGANDA.

posted July 07, 2004 02:31 AM              

....and then you came up with.....

"I know several people who have seen the film, none of which are right-wingers, and none of them was fooled by this blantant editorial wrapped in the false mantle of "documentary" - they said they could tell when disparate comments were spliced together out of context for effect, among other things. Apparently they saw through his crafty use of editing."

....and then I came up with.....

" I know several people who have seen GWTW and they said it was a horrible movie, and no one should waste their money on it....*sigh*....so since I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN IT AND EXPRESSED THEIR OPINION TO ME ABOUT IT I have the right to tell you and anyone else who will listen "Don't waste your time on this horrible, ugly, movie. as several of my friends have seen it and told me it's no good (in spite of rave reviews!)... ."

....which was.....

......a little imaginary scenario, to show how silly it would be of me to ALSO judge a film based solely on what someone had told me about it (not necessarily using your exact dialog), but conveying the SAME meaning...

.....so actually, the subject wasn't changed, which you accused me of doing....when you said.....

"I wasn't telling anyone not to go see it Rainbow, nor did I say, "Don't waste your time on this horrible, ugly, movie. as several of my friends have seen it and told me it's no good", nor anything to that effect. But yes, change the subject to distract, right?"

WRONG!

"Trickiness" is NOT my style, Isis, such as trying to "distract" someone. Something like that would never occur to me, but it's obvious you seem to be familiar with the tactic.

I'm really quite offended that you'd make such an accusation...I was merely trying to make a point, and thought I was very clear....

.....and then you go on to "name call" by insinuating that something is "wrong" with me because I have opinions that are different from yours.

To quote you....

"What's wrong with people like you Rainbow, is that you think you know where/what the light is, and you believe if people don't see that same light as you, they're stupid, sheep, misguided, etc."

Now it's my turn.......I never said that you or anybody else was stupid, misguided, or sheep. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

You also said that you have no desire to "enlighten" others...they could do it for themselves.

When I said that Michael Moore's film might enlighten people...I was not speaking of "enlightenment" in spiritual sense...but of their enlightenment when finally realizing that that there was much that had been kept from them...

....and then you go on to say.....

"I simply do not understand why people like you are so resistant to even considering that there could be lies in this film other than because you too much enjoy feeling your views are vindicated and revel in being agreed with. "

Might I throw this statement back at you?

....with just one word changed.....I'm putting in "truth" where you put in "lies."

Here goes.....

"Isis, I simply do not understand why people like you are so resistant to even considering that there could be TRUTH in this film other than because you too much enjoy feeling your views are vindicated and revel in being agreed with. "

posted July 07, 2004 03:03 AM              

How are you?

(gettin' kinda steamy in here, huh?)

Anyway to get to the gist of this post, I just wanted to say that no where in these threads do you find me "RAVING" about the movie.

What you will find...is that I defend it. and I defend it because way before this movie was ever made, I was already aware of much of what is being presented in it....I just want to see how Michael did it...

....and you know what?

posted July 07, 2004 12:37 PM              

Don't get me wrong. I want to see the movie. Just not in the theater. I rarely go to the theater.. it's WAY too expensive. Instead I subscribe to Netflix and wait for movies to come out on DVD.

I'll do the same with Fahrenheit 9/11. My curiosity is peeked. I want to see the movie, especially now that I've read so much about it. I want to witness the lies first hand. I'm interested in seeing if there are other fantasies in his movie as well. I'm sure there are some truths to it that will make my blood boil, as I too HATE Bush.

I couldn't help but to point out they hypocrisy in your posts. Condemning those who haven't seen the movie for speaking out against it. IMO, what you are doing, speaking out in favor of it, is no different than what you are accusing others of doing/being. (I think 26T said: blindly letting others tell you what to believe). There is no difference in your actions. You seem to be finding everything you can post with rave reviews of the movie... bolstering it... even though you yourself have never seen it.

I'm not trying to be bitter, or nasty here. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of your words.

posted July 07, 2004 01:04 PM            

Awesome point Libra.

Are you going to answer her then Rain?

As for "distractive" tactics, one can employ an MO without being consciously aware of it. It appears you use diversionary tactics to avoid what you say being scrutinized or addressed. If you don't do that on purpose, than I'm left to assume it's unconscious. All I know is that when asked something or being accused of something, you change the subject, a diversionary tactic, or just plain ignore what they say in favor of making your same points again (another diversionary tactic). Unconscious or conscious, the end result is the same: avoidance.

I have no desire to argue - I enjoy debate, but some people won't debate facts, only feelings, which is a joke. You can't debate feelings. I feel that sunshine makes me happy. I feel love for my husband. No debate there. I believe that Bush is not evil. THAT we could debate. I have oftentimes on this board heard left-wingers talk about how they "feel about Bush" or "feel" about a particular political issue. You don't debate feelings: there's no debate, they're so completely subjective. You debate opinions, facts, etc. An opinion and a "feeling" aren't the same thing.

So when people like Rain and 26T throw out allegations and feelings, then refuse to debate them when disagreed with, only to insinuate that everyone else "just doesn't get it", is a heartless conservative, is just unenlightened, what kind of response do you expect? And you talk about creating Global Unity. How about trying to do so by starting from within. Looking at how you present yourself, your position, how you defend it, what points you make, the language you use, how you are percieved, etc. But when asked, often I hear that it's just too much work. Well then, if you can't stand the heat, what they hell are you doing trying to cook in this kitchen?

Look, I can respect that you have views that differ from mine, but if you can't explain your views rationally and logically, then you can't possible expect anyone except those who operate soley by "feeling" to take you seriously. I want to understand, but few of the left wingers here are able to present their side, explain the logic and facts (not allusions and disparate dot connections) in a rational manner, using language that says what they mean and means what they say.

Instead it's all visceral and intuitive, which is fine and well when debating the afterlife or spirituality or something like that, but not with politics.

posted July 07, 2004 01:40 PM              

Isis,
Sorry yes you can use your intuitive ability when judging politics. If you listen to the words of the polititions watch their facial expressions, observe their actions and you get a bad feeling about them in your gut, that is listening to your intuition. People use their intuition when observing others all the time.

posted July 07, 2004 01:59 PM            

Feelings are all fine and well - one shouldn't ignore them entirely, but you can't expect people with opposing beliefs to be swayed merely by your "feelings" and "intuition".

Facts are not relative. The sun shines during the daytime on a cloudless day, fact. Sunshine is good - NOT a fact (sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad). I feel good sitting in the sunshine, also NOT a fact. Just because someone calls something a fact doesn't make it so. Generally it must be provable. What you're talking about is arguments, which anyone can make for most anything, and connecting the supposed dots, which also does not qualify as fact.

Suggesting I go to Chairman Moore's website as proof that he's telling the truth is just as ridiculous as me telling you to go to Newsmax.com for proof of his lies. C'mon.

posted July 07, 2004 02:24 PM              

I'm not trying to sway anyone with MY feelings and intuitions, sweetie pie. That has never been my objective, 'kay. And I know the difference between facts and opinions, but thanks for trying to enlighten me to the ways of the world.

I am not here to try and change anyones mind. I don't care what you believe. That seems to be a hard one to grasp. I will every so often state my opionions, but my point in doing so is not to change anyones mind.

Of course you wouldnt go to his website, I knew you wouldnt want to read anything that might disprove your facts.

posted July 07, 2004 02:25 PM            

Grow up.

posted July 07, 2004 02:31 PM            

The mere fact that you comment on posts you've not even read, or posts that you've made your mind up about before even reading - well, like I said above, you reveal your true self with every post you make. You are transparent.

As for me trying to enlighten anyone here, another good try, but no cigar. Like I've said before, I believe enlightenment must come from within.

posted July 07, 2004 04:21 PM            

Your falseness is - well I'll keep the adjectives out of it. How can you be my friend when "it doesn't matter what I say"? Exactly. (That was rhetorical, the answer is self-evident)

So stop with the BS please.

I will have to continue withholding those cigars.

posted July 07, 2004 04:29 PM              

"Yup, that's exactly what I'm doing...and you'll find jwhop (who's political views are the opposite of mine) posting all the nasty reviews....even tho he's never seen it. T*T FOR TAT!

....and true...I haven't seen it yet (I have to go out of my little town to do it)..*sigh*....but...I'm just totally positive that I'm not going to be disappointed in the movie, because I knew these ugly things were going on, way before Michael Moore made it available for the public at large to know...(that's why I "joked" that I'd have made the movie myself, hadn't MM decided to do it first)....