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Author Topic:   Thoughts on Peace
26taurus
unregistered
posted July 10, 2004 03:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are some beautiful quotes I've compiled on peace, from some of the greatest minds to have lived today.

Peace IS possible.

No matter what anyone tries to tell you.
Peace and Love are within reach. It is up to us.
___________________________________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
Only light can do that.
Hate multiplies hate,
Violence multiplies violence,
And toughness multiples toughness
In a descending spiral of destruction...
The chain reaction of evil --
Hate begetting hate,
Wars producing more wars--
Must be broken or we shall be plunged
Into the dark abyss of annihilation.
--Martin Luther King Jr.

"Destruction is not the law of humans. Man lives freely only by his
readiness to die, if need be, at the hands of his brother, never by killing him.
Every murder or other injury, no matter for what cause, committed or inflicted on
another is a crime against humanity."---Ghandi

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds.
The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly
submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-Albert Einstein
____________________________________________
ALBERT EINSTEIN:

"But could not our situation be compared to one of a menacing epidemic? People are unable to view this situation in its true light, for their eyes are blinded by passion. General fear and anxiety create hatred and aggressiveness. The adaptation to warlike aims and activities has corrupted the mentality of man; as a result, intelligent, objective and humane thinking has hardly any effect and is even suspected and persecuted as unpatriotic." ..Einstein "The Menace of Mass Destruction"

Warfare cannot be humanized. It can only be abolished.

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service."

"Force always attracts men of low morality, and I believe it to be an invariable rule that tyrants of genius are succeeded by scoundrels."

As long as armies exist, any serious conflict will lead to war.

"One does not make wars less likely by formulationg rules of warfare...
war cannot be humanized. It can only be eliminated..."

"Politics is a pendulum whose swings between anarchy and tyranny are fueled by perpetually rejuvenated illusions."

It is characteristic of the military mentality that non-human factors are held essential, while the human being, his desires and thoughts, are considered as unimportant and secondary.
___________________________________________
GHANDI:

Violent means will give violent freedom.
What kind of victory is it when someone is left defeated?

Power is of two kinds. One is obtained by the fear of punishment and the other by acts of love. Power based on love is a thousand times more effective and permanent then the one derived from fear of punishment.

You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil.

A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man.

It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say.

___________________________________________

"You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
For they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the
white are woven together.
And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth,
and he shall examine the loom also."
...Kahlil Gibran,The Prophet

____________________________________________
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant.
We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

"Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."
-Albert Einstein
____________________________________________

I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality... I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final world. -
Martin Luther King Jr.

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.
- Mark Twain
____________________________________________
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race."

"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive."

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

"The only real valuable thing is intuition."

"Only a life lived for others is a life worth while ."
-Einstein
____________________________________________
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. - Henry David Thoreau

"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
-Einstein

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. - Gandhi
At the center of non-violence stands the principle of love
.... Martin Luther King, Jr.

"Never let the weeds get higher
Than the garden"

...Tom Waits

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight;
and never stop fighting."

...ee cummings

"Intellectuals try not to drown, while the whole purpose of love is drowning."
...Rumi
The Illuminated Rumi

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools. Everybody can be great...because anybody can serve.
You don't have to have a college degree to serve.
You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve.
You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love".

...Martin L. King, Jr.

"The recognition of the life of every man as sacred is the first and only basis of all ethics.
War is so unjust and ugly that all who wage it must try to stifle the voice of conscience within themselves."

...Leo Tolstoy,
The Kingdom of God Is Within You

"An Eye for an Eye makes the whole world blind."
...Mahatma Gandhi

God puts something good and lovable in every man His hands create.
-Mark Twain
____________________________________________
Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods."

Nothing that I can do will change the structure of the universe.
But maybe, by raising my voice, I can help in the greatest of all causes -- goodwill among men and peace on earth.

Imagination is more importand than knowledge.

Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."

"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...
the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind.


If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

"Two things inspire me to awe -- the starry heavens above and the moral universe within."

"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion
that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge."

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."

"What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very
imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of "humility." This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism"
-Albert Einstien
____________________________________________
Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and done by unarmed nations in the face of odds.

A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.
Ghandi


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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 1120
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 10, 2004 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
amen!

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Rainbow~
unregistered
posted July 10, 2004 06:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you 26Taurus...

A LOT of "food for thought" for minds "hungry" for peace...*sigh*

Love,
Rainbow

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Solane Star
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Canada
Registered: Aug 2010

posted July 10, 2004 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks 26Taurus,

You are truly enlightened and have a golden heart. Thanks for adding some intellectual freedom to Global Unity,Its nice to see the light shining.


Love and Light!!!

Solane Star

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Rainbow~
unregistered
posted July 14, 2004 07:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AMEN!

Love,
Rainbow

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Rainbow~
unregistered
posted July 23, 2004 12:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I realize I said I would voluntarily leave this forum (and I did for awhile),

... but I come now in a very benign manner (with no intention of Bush bashing at all and holding up a white flag)...

I come now with every intention of spreading love and light, at the recommendation of a very wise knowflake around here...namely DAF...

...and the words to an old song by the Young Bloods run thru my head....

Come on everybody,
smile on your brother,
everybody get together,
try to love one another.
right now, right now, right now

So here's wishing you all....


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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 23, 2004 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've responded to these so called enlightened quotes before. It's apparent there is a basic disconnect between the "thinking" and "feeling" components of humanity so I'm going to put it a different way this time.

In my Universe, which is the "thinking" Universe, I would send each one of you who "feel" everything can be talked out with an enemy....potential or actual, on a mission to put your "feelings" into practice.

In the present instance, the war on terrorism, I would use every means possible to put you in touch with operatives of al-Qaida so you could talk it all out with them.....hopefully all the way up the chain of command to bin Laden himself.

In the meantime, I would continue building cruise missiles, M1-A1 tanks, Bradley Fighting Vehicles, B-2 bombers and all the other implements of war because I know al-Qaida will send each of you back in two different boxes, one for your head and one for your body.

Because......
You are all infidels, ones who do not accept Allah as God, not only God, but the only God.

As an infidel, Allah has given all who faithfully follow Allah the right to kill you by cutting your necks, beheading you.

Allah has not only given his faithful followers the right to kill infidels but the duty to do so to prevent infidels from committing more offenses in the sight of Allah while upon the earth. They're actually doing you a favor by beheading you so you will have fewer sins to answer for when you meet Allah.

Of course, they would give you some options. Option one is converting to Islam and proclaiming Allah as the only God in the Universe.

Option two is perhaps making you a slave......if they think you have some usefully skills they can put to work on their behalf. Perhaps you could become missionaries and spread the Islamic message of Allah amongst the rest of us infidels.

Option three is collecting tribute from you to let you continue to live.....this is, if you have anything of value that could be called tribute.

This is the message of the radical Islamic fundamentalists and it applies to individuals as well as nations........
1. Convert to Allah 2. Become slaves
3 Pay tribute 4 Have your necks cut. Numbers 2 and 3 are conditional, conditioned on whether you have any value to them.

This article pretty much says it all.

Jihad and Human Rights Today

An active ideology incompatible with universal standards of freedom and equality.
By Bat Ye’or

Human rights and the concept of jihad are two incompatible ideas. In Judeo-Christian societies, the concept of human rights is based on the biblical interdiction against killing, and the equality of all human beings. Though it has religious roots, this notion of human rights evolved mainly from the 19th century in a secular European and American framework. It then acquired a universal character, proclaiming the equality of all human beings and the inviolability of their natural human rights. But it was only after World War II that this concept became the core of an international legal system, as a tool to prevent political abuses and to protect civil populations from genocidal policies. Other major civilizations — including the Chinese, Hindu, and Islamic — have also conceived legal systems which protect the rights of their citizens. However, in the Islamic case, specifically, the 54 Muslim countries of the Organization of the Islamic Conference have conceived their own human-rights charter, contained in the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. This document states in its preamble, and in articles 24 and 25, that all its provisions are in conformity with the sharia, the religious Islamic law, which has primacy. Moreover, it proclaims that God has made the Islamic community (umma) the best nation — and, hence, its role is to guide humanity. We can see here the differences between the Cairo Declaration and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which does not refer to any religion or to the superiority of any group over another, but stresses the absolute equality of all human beings. The institution of jihad belongs to a religious, Islamic domain, outside the realm of Western universalism and secularism. These two domains do not meet. Secular laws can be changed, abrogated, or ameliorated, but jihad regulations are believed to express divine commands. By definition, human beings can neither discuss nor scrutinize the divine will, and so those jihad obligations — attributed by the theologians to Allah — place jihad in the domain of faith. I would like to emphasize strongly that jihad is a special domain of Islamic law. Not all Muslims know it, and many reject its ideology. It would be a great mistake to believe that each and every Muslim identifies with the jihad-war ideology. The ideology of jihad was formulated by leading Muslim theologians and scholars from the 8th century onward. Their voluminous writings make clear the notion of jihad as a holy war of conquest. Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (d. 966), for example, stated,
Jihad is a precept of Divine institution... We Malikis [one of four schools of Muslim jurisprudence] maintain it is preferable not to begin hostilities with the enemy before having invited the latter to embrace the religion of Allah, except where the enemy attacks first. They have the alternative of either converting to Islam or paying the poll tax (jizya), short of which war will be declared against them...


Jihad ideology separates humanity into two hostile blocs: the community of Muslims (Dar ul-Islam), and the infidel non-Muslims (Dar ul-Harb). Allah commands the Muslims to conquer the entire world in order to rule it according to Koranic law. Hence Muslims must wage a perpetual war against those infidels who refuse to submit. This is the motivation for jihad. It is based on the inequality between the community of Allah and the infidels, as was re-emphasized in the Cairo Declaration. The first is a superior group, which must rule the world; the second must submit. The current relevance of this ideology is apparent, and disturbing.
For example, Al-Muhajiroun, an Islamist newspaper in London, published an article on January 27, 2001, which declared:

Upon the establishment of the Islamic State, the whole world will potentially be Dar ul Harb since the foreign policy of the Islamic state is aimed at conquering the world... Once the Islamic State is established anyone in Dar ul Harb will have no sanctity for his life or wealth hence, a Muslim in such circumstances can then go into Dar ul Harb and take the wealth from the people unless there is a treaty with that state. If there is no treaty, individual Muslims can even go to Dar ul Harb and take women to keep as slaves.

Such an attitude assumes that the infidels have no rights and are totally dehumanized. It breeds hatred and contempt and has led to historical negationism, and the destruction of non-Muslim cultures. Moreover, such views are not confined to the most radical Islamists. They were confirmed in the Proceedings of the Fourth Conference of the Academy of Islamic Research, held in 1968 (General Organization for Government Printing Offices, Cairo, 1968), and regularly since then by eminent Islamic scholars. These authoritative pronouncements have recapitulated the theory of jihad in a manner completely consistent with the Al-Muhajiroun statements.
The theory of jihad against the infidels is composed of two parts: the ideology, and the military institutions aimed at implementing this ideology. According to these rules the infidels without a treaty have no rights at all: they can be deported, reduced to slavery, abducted for ransom, or killed. Women and children can be taken into slavery. Infidels can be spared by a temporary treaty which should not go beyond ten years. The treaty must conform to Islamic rule and serve Islamic interests, hence a ransom should be paid. The infidels who submit to Islamic rulers are given a pledge of security against the rules of jihad, so long as they accept a condition of humiliation, and of total inferiority to Muslims.
Jihad is therefore a genocidal war, according to the modern definition of genocide. It encourages terrorism against civilians and does not differentiate between innocent civilians and soldiers. All infidels without a treaty of protection can be killed. Jihad does not recognize universal human rights, for there is no equality between Muslims and infidels, and no reciprocity between Muslims and infidels in legal matters. Jihad warriors do not accept that either the Geneva Conventions or the conventional rules of war have any validity for them.
Jihadists have associated the notion of a reward in paradise with the practice of killing infidels. Killing at war was, and still is, practiced by all societies. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, wars, because they imply the acts of killing, are hateful and peace is praised. In the jihadist ideology, it is war that is praised, along with the killing of the infidels. Tragically, jihad ideology will not disappear soon. It is shaping the minds of a generation of young Muslims in many countries. Jihad ideology is a well-constructed system, created after the death of the prophet Mohammed. It has remained alive and well since then — except under secularized Muslim governments like that of Turkey, after the Kemalist revolution. It is delusional and dangerous to maintain that this ideology is rooted in social deprivation, backwardness, injustice, or despair. Moreover, paying subsidies to suspend global jihad terrorism is tantamount to paying a tribute to terrorist states, and buying one's own peace and security as temporarily ransomed privileges — instead of living by the principles of universal human rights, which proclaim the inviolability of every human being. Societies that pay a tribute to survive are destined to disappear.
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/humanrights.shtml

In my Universe, I don't negotiate with Islamic terrorists....for the obvious reasons stated in the article, I don't pay tribute, I won't convert to Islam/Allah and won't accept slavery.

In my Universe, I kill those who make war on civilians and practice Jihad as quickly and efficiently as possible.

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 23, 2004 03:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you jwhop,
We understand your feelings on this.

You may want to take a wander over to Free-for-All to see why this post was bumped up again. There are some serious issues going on in Lindaland and you may be interested.
Please, as a participant of Lindaland, read up on Daf's important message.

Also, Rainbow!!! You beautiful soul, my friend. Thank you for *bumping* this to the top. There are some wise words here, that are really needed right now.
Keep that Love Light shinin'.
I you.
(you too jwop)

26

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 23, 2004 03:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Violent means will give violent freedom.
What kind of victory is it when someone is left defeated?" -Ghandi

A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul. -Ghandi

"One does not make wars less likely by formulationg rules of warfare...
war cannot be humanized. It can only be eliminated..." Albert Einstein

"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race."

"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive."

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

-Einstein

------------------
"My country is the world and my religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 23, 2004 03:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
again....

------------------
"My country is the world and my religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 23, 2004 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
26taurus,

I urge you to also reread the posts in FFA. According to Daf, the dissention and disagreements here ARE not what he was talking about.


Please do not take his feelings of feeling a negative cloud over LL as meaning we are no longer allow to voice our opinions or dissent from what the majority believes.

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lioneye68
unregistered
posted July 23, 2004 04:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whoa. I'd rather die than conform to any of the terms of 'jihad'. I don't know what kind of god would set a world in motion with those terms and conditions. A GOD wouldn't. But something completely opposite of God would try to tell us so.

It's ironic, really, that the Islamic fundamentalists believe they are on a mission from God, but the reality couldn't be further from the TRUTH.

Some might even say, they are mearly instruments and pawns in satan's war against humanity.

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 23, 2004 06:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Pid!

This whole thing is a bit confusing. but at the same time, not really. I think alot of what Daf is trying to get across is there is alot of negative vibes going on here (Lindaland in general) lately and something must be done. I don't think he is trying to point fingers, but rather, he is trying to awaken us to how far this has gotten. We know negativity feeds rapidly off of negativity. I think he is showing us the way some of the posting has taken course is really not the way this forum was meant to be used.

It has not been productive or helpful to alot of us.

I have many more thoughts on this subject but am having a hard time putting them into words today.

I think that this forum (GU) does play a part in what his message is about. There is a reason why he (and others) don't come here.

I don't know. These are just thoughts. I could be completely missing the boat, but am interested in finding out more of what this is all about. Guess we will wait and see.

Talk to you soon.

26

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Isis
Newflake

Posts: 1
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted July 24, 2004 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

So now disagreeing with you guys constitutes just plain, "negative energy"?! Way to try and completely neutralize those who disagree with you by minimalizing them and transforming them into something inherently bad, such as "negative energy" (I thought something akin to dark/evil forces was mentioned too? Can't recall...anywho...)

26T, you seemed to have completely disregarded what Jwhop posted, yet it is as germaine to the subject as your peace-related quotes. Impediments to peace are a valid concern, we cannot close our eyes and sing "Imagine", refusing to deal with it, hoping if we give 'em a coke and a smile they'll all change their minds. Why won't some consider the impediments to peace, which are certainly relevant to any discussion of peace itself?

It appears some would imply that to have peace there should be no discord whatsoever...

------------------
“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 01:21 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
-Albert Einstein

______________________________________
Hi Isis,

Okay, to address part of jwhop's post.

quote:
In my Universe, which is the "thinking" Universe, I would send each one of you who "feel" everything can be talked out with an enemy....potential or actual, on a mission to put your "feelings" into practice.

I never said I think everything can be talked out with an enemy. If I knew exactly how to achieve world peace, I would be screaming it from the rooftops. I don't claim to know it all. I just have my views, or "feelings" that's all.

I think it starts with one person. We as human beings are all connected. And what ever actions one chooses to take will affect each and every one of us. So by each of us trying our best to be positive and send Love to our brothers and sisters, we may eventually have a peaceful world. I am just living through my heart. I walk through life doing my best not to hurt other souls in the process.

I am not better or more "right" than the next guy. This is just how I choose to be.
I'm sorry it aggrevates so many of you.

quote:
I know al-Qaida will send each of you back in two different boxes, one for your head and one for your body.

Honestly, I am not afraid of death. Big deal - I get killed by al-Qaida. My pysical body is dead, I am not. Many will die before we awaken to a new vibration on this planet, and we will.

quote:
So now disagreeing with you guys constitutes just plain, "negative energy"?! Way to try and completely neutralize those who disagree with you by minimalizing them and transforming them into something inherently bad, such as "negative energy" (I thought something akin to dark/evil forces was mentioned too? Can't recall...anywho...)

Sorry but alot of the postings going on in here lately DO contain negative energy. And like I said before, NO, I don't expect everyone to sit around a campfire singing Kum Ba Ya, strumming thier guitars, smoking peace pipes, and pretending all is well in the world. I guess you still think that. Well then, there is nothing more I can say to help you see my point of view (see not change, I don't want to change your mind).

And since you have explained, in other posts, your extreme dislike and "disparage" as you said, for me, my words will mean nothing to you and will only be picked apart and laughed at again. I don't care, do it if it makes you happy.

Like I said I don't have all the answers, but I do know that there are other ways to take a thread than name calling and all the other negativity that has been rampent in here lately. It doesnt help anyone. We are here to help others when they need it, not bash them and their beliefs.

I won't get into another negative game with you again. This is how I feel - not you - so let me be me. I respect you for you and wish you every beautiful thing in this world. (I know, you think I'm fake, you have told me a million times)

I am me, and I like me. (even if you don't)
I don't have all the answers - never claimed to.

I am just another soul trying to find my way back home.

26

Since you love my quotes so much, here is one especially for you:

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say."
-Ghandi

"Destruction is not the law of humans. Man lives freely only by his
readiness to die, if need be, at the hands of his brother, never by killing him.
Every murder or other injury, no matter for what cause, committed or inflicted on
another is a crime against humanity."

Violent means will give violent freedom.
What kind of victory is it when someone is left defeated?

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man.

---Ghandi

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds.
The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly
submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

-Albert Einstein

"One does not make wars less likely by formulationg rules of warfare...
war cannot be humanized. It can only be eliminated..."

"Politics is a pendulum whose swings between anarchy and tyranny are fueled by perpetually rejuvenated illusions."
___________________________________________

*******************************************
"You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
For they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the
white are woven together.
And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth,
and he shall examine the loom also."

...Kahlil Gibran,The Prophet
*******************************************


------------------
"My country is the world and my religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine

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lioneye68
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 01:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think many people have been argueing a case against the war in Iraq, and against the GW Bush admin. for so long, that they can't allow anything in that would shake their convictions. They have become " the opponent" to that, and it's part of their identity.
It's not even about truth anymore. It's about pride.

War is unpleasant. We all agree on that.

Sometimes, it's necessary, unfortuneatly, and when a nation is in mortal danger, they must stand strong. That is where we don't all agree. Live in the clouds and if you wish, but that doesn't change life on earth, in the here and now.

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 01:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
also Isis, you asked:

quote:
Why won't some consider the impediments to peace, which are certainly relevant to any discussion of peace itself?

Great question.
Why don't you start? I'd like to know.

Also, have you thought of addressing some of your questions in other forums, where some of the other highly intelligent souls, who chose not to enter this forum could take a stab at it? You will surely get more answers to your questions.

There are alot of highly intelligent people out there, who may be up to your level of intelligence. They might be able to give you better answers than say I, or certain others here. Know what I mean?

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 24, 2004 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
26T, have you any idea how many times I've read the platitudes/chiches you posted? Listen, I don't know anyone and never have known anyone who was for war for the sake of war.

If you're going to make a case for peace under all circumstances then you should also be prepared to immediately surrender to any aggressor.

I also wish you would at least post some cliches that are historically true, if you must post them at all.

Violent means will give violent freedom? Have you any idea how absurd that is considering the fact Germany and Japan unconditionally surrendered in WWII. Show me the violent freedom associated with Germany and/or Japan. Show me the nation(s) Germany and/or Japan have evidenced any violence towards since WWII ended.

What kind of victory is it when someone is left defeated? It's the kind of victory that brings peace for generations 26T, if and only if it's a total victory. Stalemates result in almost certain resumption of hostilities and sooner than later.

If Albert Einstein really believed any of that, he would have stayed in Nazi Germany instead of emigrating to the US. Of course, Hitler would have had Einstein shipped off to Auschwitz and gassed and that's the reality or perhaps you would argue it's the illusion.

Martin Luther King and Ghandi would have never said any of those things to Stalin, Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Pot Pol, Kim Jong-Il, Kim II Sung, Hitler or Saddam Hussein among others. Those dictators would have simply had them killed, immediately.

I read daf's thread, almost from the time it began. The last time we had members discussing other members behind the scenes, it was directed at someone I really like. It caused dissension, hard feelings, division and the departure of numerous people from the site. It isn't helpful, nor is it helpful to suggest those you disagree with are willing agents of dark forces/evil or conversely possessed by demons, no matter how many 's are included. Just who the hell on this site do you suppose is capable of judging the spiritual nature of anyone, on this site or anywhere else?

I've seen what Isis said and she said it plainly, which is the right way.

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 01:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi lioneye,

For me it is not about pride. I am more what you would call anti-establishment, anti-government, anarchist.... What ever labels you choose to give me are fine. But I assure you it is not my 'dislike for the GWBush admin.' I don't vote. I choose not to take part in the whole thing. I am not anti - Bush, let's just say I don't "vibrate" well with him or the government in general.

You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil.

A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.
--Ghandi


For me it is about the survival, treatment, and happiness of the human race. That's all.

My ego is not in this - only my heart.
_________________________________________

"One does not make wars less likely by formulationg rules of warfare...
war cannot be humanized. It can only be eliminated..." -Albert Einstein

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 02:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey jwhop,

Sorry to upset you with my beliefs jwhop. Take it easy. This is just how I feel, and it is hard for us to grasp one another because we are on completely different pages.

quote:
What kind of victory is it when someone is left defeated? It's the kind of victory that brings peace for generations 26T, if and only if it's a total victory. Stalemates result in almost certain resumption of hostilities and sooner than later.

The point of that quote it to show that when we have defeated our brother, we are all defeated. We are all One and while hurting another you are hurting us all.
I do not believe when you defeat the other, you are bringing peace for generations to come. One side has been left defeated. This is unbalanced and the defeated will want to once again conquer. It's a never ending cycle. So no, defeating another will not bring peace.

quote:
Martin Luther King and Ghandi would have never said any of those things to Stalin, Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Pot Pol, Kim Jong-Il, Kim II Sung, Hitler or Saddam Hussein among others. Those dictators would have simply had them killed, immediately.

These men and many like them, understood that there is no true death. If you believe you are your body and that is all - that you have no soul - that I can't explain this to you.

So they die at the hands of another. Life will carry on and eventually we as a human race will move forward and grow spiritually. But these people's words of wisdom are helping us take major leaps along the way. Eventually we will look back on our infantile ways.

You saw what you wanted to in Daf's post. I saw something different. If people run away from the site, it is by their own choice and something they feel was pointed out as truth by another inside of them. No matter how much they want to deny it. If they feel they have to run away maybe they arent on solid enough footing within themselves.

Truth hurts, but only you can tell yourself what your truth is. Don't blame Daf.

They just ran from themselves.


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Rainbow~
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 12:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Martin Luther King and Ghandi would have never said any of those things to Stalin, Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Pot Pol, Kim Jong-Il, Kim II Sung, Hitler or Saddam Hussein among others. Those dictators would have simply had them killed, immediately.

King and Ghandi were killed anyway, by people who couldn't take their idealism...so they didn't need to "spew their peace" at the dictators in order to be murdered (not that it would have mattered, because as 26taurus said, I'm sure they had no fear of "death.")

Sorry juni...I did come back, but I want 26 to know that I am right here beside her with her views on peace (and note that neither of us are "calling names." We're just expressing what our thoughts are, regarding peace." )

(ok. ok..I'm going... )

Love,
Rainbow

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lioneye68
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 01:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As long as there are groups like al-Qaeda running around in the world, the world will not know peace. THEY are the element that prevents peace at this time.

The first step toward achieving world peace, is to get rid of those types of groups. That's not to say, we have to kill them all. They are free to change their hearts at anytime, but if they would rather die than do that, then that's their choice.


We've got some matters to attend to first, and once that's done, then we can start working toward a kinder, more gentle world.

But, we can't sit around the campfire holding hands and singing "Kum-by-ah" until the wolves are no longer circling our camp.

When someone has been shot, the first step is to remove the bullet. Then, healing can begin. al-Qaeda is the bullet that is causing mankind's wound to fester.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 24, 2004 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isis, jwhop and Lioneye said it all and gave point for point replies to questions posted here. Not only that, they asked questions concerning what SHOULD be done.

Instead of answering them, or specifically - Isis, she was told to 'Go to another forum to get the answers she seeks'. I am baffled. If you want to start to question or oppose anothers way of thinking in order to enlighten them on what is going on, don't you think one should know about the topics instead of just referring them to "another" forum.

In Dafs post, I see no positive energy, but instead a negative witchhunt, which some have turned to use as a "tool" to try and point fingers at those of us that are conservative and questions others "flimsy" arguments.

Randall designed this forum so that we can all speak out without harm for saying what we believe. We are to adhere to certain respectful guidelines, and when we get out of hand a moderator points it out and we do the apology thing and move on (most of the time). Because some people do not subscribe to our political theories or maybe even our religious beliefs (and there are only 2-5% of us on this site that are conservative) we are labelled "negative".

I have seen on this thread and on Daf's thread the finger pointing at us. Fine, we can take it, God / Goddess gave us all the intellect to meet the challenge. But then taking that "negative" feeling a step further and comparing some of us to being inline with those secret dark forces is nothing less that a witchhunt. Daf never said it, but others have taken it out of context and ran with it. Just read the posts and the finger pointing is clear.

jwhop is right. For those of us that have been here long enough we saw what happened the last time. A great friend is gone because of the dissention and fingerpointing that was caused when discussions arose through 'backroom' conversations.

From what I know some of the more "peace seeking" people said some pretty rude and malicious things about that person. We won't get into that because it will serve to bring about nothing positive.

I think we all accept the people here that do not want to bring about change but instead want to see a distabilized government because they hate the current administration and anyone that subscribes to it. We all accept that there are some arguments that are off the wall like "Peace being brought about my just sending love and white light" Or the quote from 26T that was just brought up by jwhop.

Hey you are entitled to that, but we are also entitled to believe what we want without being singled out as being "evil". LOL..

Man it feels like being in grade school when a couple people start to pick on someone or start a rumor and others quickly jump on board so they don't seem like they are "uncool".

So what kind of people do you want to be? The kids that start the rumors, the ones that run with it and go with the group or the kids that stand up and say "this is BS"?

The comment about 'people much more intelligent will not come in here...because of the negativity" is total HORSE$HIT. They have CHOSEN not to come here, there reason doesn't matter. If they do not want to educate, enlighten or participate, that is too bad - maybe some of them to actually lend their wisdom to help others see a new path.

People come and go all the time. It is life - why should LindaLand be different that real life when people move on, make new friends and join new clubs?

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26taurus
unregistered
posted July 24, 2004 02:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are many, many times that I have asked to stop the "BS". I am not looking to be a part of any "club". If I was I wouldnt have some of the beliefs I do.

The point of saying to Isis that she may want to post some of her questions in other forums, was not asking her to leave here!!!
It was that I notice she doesnt go into the other forums as much and may get more answers there, due to alot of the intelligent people that dont enter GU. I never said they were intelligent BECAUSE they didnt come here. Just that there are more people out there who are also intelligent, and could give her more variety in answering her questions.

quote:
Daf never said it, but others have taken it out of context and ran with it.

Exactly. Just as you and others take offence to it and see it as a "witch hunt" others see a bigger meaning behind the words.


quote:
I think we all accept the people here that do not want to bring about change but instead want to see a distabilized government because they hate the current administration and anyone that subscribes to it. We all accept that there are some arguments that are off the wall like "Peace being brought about my just sending love and white light" Or the quote from 26T that was just brought up by jwhop.

No, no, no. How many time's can I say it. When all you people want to do is see what you want to in us "peace loving" people's words.

I don't hate the current administration and want to see it disabled. Wrong, wrong, wrong - that's all I can say.

And where did I say that "peace is brought about by sending white light and love".
I did state that if I knew exactly how to achieve word peace I would be screaming it from the rooftops. And that I believe it starts with each and everyone of us. If everyone could start practicing the wisdom of many others before us and look at their brother with only love in their hearts and only the best intentions, there would be no war. We are FAR from being even close to "there" yet. But one by one this changes things.

All I know is what feels right to me and that is not killing other human beings. I don't care who they are. Yes, they may kill me. Oh, well. I have been killed before and will die again.

Humanity is on an ultimatly on an upward path, though we stumble and backtrack sometimes along the way. One day I know we will make it. There will be no more wars. We will grow into a higher state of being and look back on our foolish ways. Dont ask me how to make this happen. It is not ready to fully happen yet. But day by day we are getting closer.

History repeats itself. This is false. Only man fails to learn and repeats his mistakes.

What to do? If governments disappear, there will simply be anarchy. Freedom will not come in if governments disappear, there will simply be anarchy. It will be a worse state than it is now. It will be sheer madness. The police are needed because you are not alert. Otherwise, what is the point of having a policeman standing on the crossroad? If people are alert, the policeman can be removed, will have to be removed, because it is unnecessary. But people are not conscious.

There is nothing more that I want than the awaking and peace to overcome humanity.

If you all chose to say it is my extreme dislike for the Bush or ANY OTHER administration. So Be It. You should know by now I am not a political person. I don't pay much attention to it all. There is a much more important picture I chose to concentrate on. Humanity and the survival of it. And my way of getting there is NOT through politics.

Pick this apart and quote me all you want because we are coming from completely different places. So what you say are only things you percieve.

My life has been spent learning about raising my consciousness. Not learning about politicians and their beleifs and LIES. Yes, lies. I can see straight through the phoniness of it all. But I can also look to these politicians with love in my heart. Something you all are convinced I cannot do. You have your minds made up that I hate the administration. I don't. I don't waste my time on HATE!!!


26

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Isis
Newflake

Posts: 1
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted July 24, 2004 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I keep such issues to GU because thats the forum in which I think they belong - I don't take those questions out of here because I assume that if someone has something to say in regards to international or domestic politics, and the pursuit of peace, etc, that they will come here, the forum designed for those discussions. I wouldn't bring up Islamic Jihad in FFA any more than I would ask a dog question in the Astrology forum.

------------------
“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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