posted August 09, 2004 12:52 AM            

Nothing I said in the chat is different that I what I have already said. I am appalled though that someone would be sick enough to copy and paste things from a chat room. It's mental.

LOL...I am just waiting for Lioneye to catch wind of it LOL...oh well...I guess I just never thought of posting someone else's e-mail or conversation from a chat. If I didn't like what was being said, I would have jumped in and said something to the offending party.

We must be "very" powerful..us three fire people LOL..(and for everyone reading this...I am being flippant..tongue-in-cheek)

posted August 09, 2004 01:04 AM            

As for being embarrassed by what's been said, it's all been said many times in many ways and it's no secret.

posted August 09, 2004 11:00 AM              

Honestly.

posted August 09, 2004 12:31 PM            

How was your birthday? When do you move in with Mr. Virgo? I think you said late August right? I'll be setting out right after the Mercury Retro (not quite intended, but it just worked out that way).

LOL..I know what you mean about "I say what I mean and mean what I say". I feel the same. LOL. I am chuckling because we had talked about that..the fact that I suffer from foot and mouth - jwhop was right, we had already discussed it before.

I am peeved that someone would lurk and then copy / paste a dialogue. That is pretty creepy in my book. It would be one thing if someone was threatened or we had put together some evil plot, but shooting the breeze and complaining about being singled out...yep...that should be off limits.

I am still in a quandry about the reference of using our intellect to harm other people. I don't know that I have ever tried to hurt someone with my brain. Sometimes I stare into my cats eyes to try and make them act a certain way, but they just stare back. LOL...

Okay - here is a question for you both:

Are you able to separate your distaste for someone's beliefs but still be civil to that person? Personally, I can do that. I have had to work with many people I don't like because of their personality, beliefs or whatever, but I never hated the person.

I find that there are some here that I don't agree with as far as politics or far out spiritual quests, but I can still comment on straight astrology or talk about other topics without hating the person.

posted August 09, 2004 02:16 PM              

I can except differences because I'm always seeking the proverbial truth. The way I feel about something today, may be very different 10 years from now. And hopefully, that's because I've managed to uncover new truths along the way, that have helped me to reshape my beliefs. So, far be it from me to close myself off from differing opinions and beliefs. Heck, I WANT them. Bring 'em on! Just be preparred to back them up, and be open to what others bring to the table too.

posted August 09, 2004 02:39 PM            

I think perhaps we should find a chat client that works differently - ie; one in which 1) an individual can't lurk and still read the chat and 2) where the chat dialogue clears once everyone has left as opposed to having to "clear chat" (which incidentally I do everytime I'm in there).

I feel somewhat slighted, my small contribution to the convo Friday was nowhere to be found

posted August 09, 2004 03:20 PM            

I noted in one response, that although one had not clearly stated a witch hunt should commence, all that was needed was a vague point in the 'right' direction and the fire was started.

I am not sure how things will come to pass. I still feel that just below the surface things are roiling.

posted August 09, 2004 04:59 PM              

"So what was up with that whole "we are evil" daferman thing?" by you piduau.

Which, just coincidentally(?) was where I happened to show up and is the second line in the chat that I saw.

It's a CHAT room people. For folks at Linda-land to come to. What did you think you were doing? AIM'ing each other?

Of course I took offense to being called a stupid ass. Of course I thought your comments were way out of line. What was I supposed to think? You took the purpose of the first post personally, you assumed that YOU were the "dark forces" being mentioned AND you assumed that it was because you were conservative and like to enjoy what you earn.

You were wrong, wrong and wrong on all counts and you were WRONG to continue spreading your misrepresentations of my intentions as though they were the truth.

They may have been your interpretations of my intentions, but time and time again, I've explained what my intentions are.

If I gotta keep jabbin at this tree with a stick to show that it's got hornets in it, then I'll do so until the hornets stop stinging for stinging's sake.

Acting like you're the innocent victims of some unscrupulous spying when we're all up to our necks in culpability for this innane stupidity is absurd.

Every time you return fire with all barrels in the most venomous and combative way that you can possibly muster, Lindaland is going to see it. Even if it means that I've got to be covered from head to toe in doody for it to happen.

There is respectful, dialogue between strangers on a public board, and there is brutal, venomous, verbal manhandling. I am not your brother, your uncle or your spouse. I'm not in the habit of disrespecting strangers because I can get away with it, and I'd like to think that at least ONE of you is above it.

Save yer breath, JW, I've said my piece and having done so, proven what a stupid a$$ I am by wasting my time doing so.

The donkey speaks,

daf

FOR ANYONE ELSE READING THIS:

1. There were no email campaigns that I know of designed to discredit any of the people appearing on this thread. There was an email to me asking if I felt that Lindaland was becoming a less inviting place to be. I did.

2. I am not calling anyone in this room an "evil one." They keep repeating that. They'd probably even like you to believe it's true and they CERTAINLY (I mean we're talking about a proud Leo for gawd sake)won't be changing their minds about their misconceptions. They've decided that I meant them, they've deicded it was about politics and so that's how they are, in all likelihood, going to proceed.

3. There was no secret spying or lurking going on in Linda-chat. I just happened to see some things that were being said about me and decided to try (for about the third time) to clear the air.

4. My entire point in all of this can be found on both the thread

My Miller Beer and I declare war on stupidity...now how stupid is THAT?

and

ATTENTION ALL KNOWFLAKES PLEASE READ THIS!

Don't read my words...read the responses. Note the attacks, and the mean words.

In the first post, whatever they threw at me, I threw back at them. In the second post, I tried to remain civil, as I would expect any of us to do when having a dialogue with strangers. Note the responses. Note the spite and the long-winded browbeating styles. It's all about domination and ego. It's all about putting the other guy in his place. It's not about discussion anymore. Who listens to a person that belittles and badgers them? Who would consider the perspective of a person who hurls bile at them? Is THIS what Linda had in mind? Is THIS what she so eloquently championed in her books?

I don't believe it is. This isn't the exchange of ideas. This is a melee of egos for ego's sake and it's stomach turning. It's the sort of thing that has driven MANY more sensitive souls away from Lindaland.

What is the darkness? (By the way, I have NEVER used the word evil to describe this phenomenon. It was LIONEYE68 who first brought that term into play on page 2 of the first post. The post was misinterpreted, and along with the misinterpretation came misquoting.)

What is this darkness? It's not any person. It's a behavior. And it's a behavior that is unbecoming of ANY of the people here at Lindaland..present company ESPECIALLY included in that statement. We're ALL better than this petty, sick, anti-social name-calling, intellectual mauling that you folks like to call "discussion."

posted August 09, 2004 05:23 PM              

For those of you that want to accuse me of trying to play shepherd to lost sheep, get real. I'm not doing this for "those poor people." Wanna know the truth? I'm doing it for ME. I kinda like Lindaland and all of the sensitive people that are driven away by this drivel. They make my day and fill my heart. They are a smile for me on an otherwise crappy day and I miss them.

You got a problem with that?

posted August 09, 2004 05:28 PM            

It reminds me of, "If I have to damn my own soul to hell in the process, I will do it in order to bring the word of God to these unenlightened savages, Praise The Lord!"

posted August 09, 2004 05:39 PM            

No Daf, what I said was very straightforward. Your words sound fanatic to me, and your last post brings to mind the negative stereotype of a preacher. My words said what I meant, and I meant what I said.

Is it even REMOTELY possible that you read too much into everything, see evil about you to the point where you bring it into your own space YOURSELF? I mean, IS IT EVEN REMOTELY POSSIBLE THAT YOU ARE IMAGINING ANYTHING?

You need to become familiar with the psychological concept of PROJECTION, regarding imposing one's truths upon others, just one amoung MANY accusations you pile upon some here.

I meant what I said, and said what I mean, anything further you read into it is, I assure you, in your head.

posted August 09, 2004 05:39 PM              

Is that right Daf? If so, I agree. But at the same time, I also think we shouldn't be hyper-sensitive either.

posted August 09, 2004 05:49 PM              

People didn't talk trash, and so if something could be interpreted in the worst possible way, or the best possible way, we tended to assume the best possible way. Usually, that was a safe assumption.

The root of this garbage posting that's been going on is a loss of the ability to assume another's good intentions. Some people aren't very good at communicating what they mean (my wife is one) and so they say something, with the BEST of intentions, and NOW, they are JUMPED on! Many of them react strongly, because they didn't have hurtful intentions, and so they DIDN'T expect to be hurt! And back and forth it goes and it escalates and SOME of you are taking unbelievable amounts of pleasure in it all.

So yea, Lioneye, the message is basically, these are strangers, be courteous. Treat people with a bit of respect and be civil. Please!

Thanks for getting it. I needed for someone to understand.

Love,

daf

P.S. Randall, others have approached the subject in a normal manner and had their points BURIED or ignored. I know what you're saying, but hey, look where the negativity is coming from, man. Don't just point at the person who posted the topic and say, "You did this."

No Randall, it doesn't take but a moment, looking at those two posts, to see that I didn't create this, I just brought it out in the open and made an issue of it.

posted August 09, 2004 05:57 PM            

I did not make an impression of you, I do not have an opinion about what kind of person you are. I commented on your words in your most recent post. To tell you you sound like a preacher in a post does not mean that I view you in general as the stereotypical negative preacher. Do you understand the distinction (and I don't mean that condescendingly, just to nip that in the bud, wouldn't want you to KEEP reading into my words now). Also, my suggestion about projection is not a statement as to the kind of person I believe you are, actually, many people project, I think it's not uncommon, and is not an indicator of someone being one kind of a person or another.

Do you see how you can take the most direct to the point statement, and extrapolate it to so much more? I say that not to belittle you, demean you, or anything of the sort. I do it in the spirit of wanting to communicate. Because if we all didn't want to communicate, we wouldn't be here.

But then again, it is my opinion that one should be able to communicate their thoughts well if they want to go out into the world of the Internet and express themselves.

We miss out on so much when communicating online, like facial expressions, gleans of joking in people's eyes, facetiousness, confusion, even hurt, esp. in MB communications, which makes it so important that people communicate in a style that is readily understood.

I would assert that people like your wife, who you said, do not necessarily express themselves well, take it upon themselves to work on their communication skills prior to posting thousands of times on messageboards, getting frustrated that everyone just doesn't get them. It's like me being in Germany, getting ****** off that everyone doesn't understand me because they don't speak English.

posted August 09, 2004 06:08 PM              

How about if I try that so that it doesn't "still continue."

(Although dontcha think a simple, "daf that's not what I meant. I don't think you're a preacher, it just seemed that way to me" would have sufficed? Not that a Scorp would want to take the combative route to anywhere. Heavens NO! Mars and Pluto...Mars and Pluto..sigh)

So your actual intention was to point out that I sound like a Preacher because that would accomplish...?

And your point in showing how quick I am to misinterpret OTHER people's words was to accomplish....?

If you'd like to fight with someone, there are PLENTY of boards across the web with much more challenging opponents. Why choose Lindaland? Why be the antagonist (or protagonist if you prefer) here?

Is there a reason that it continues do you think? Could any of it start with you? Or is it everyone else that forces you to respond in a manner that only serves to belittle others? I mean, if your intention isn't to belitte me, and you aren't good enough at saying what you mean, to SAY what you mean without my interpreting it wrong...wouldn't silence be a better alternative?

I'd like to hear what you have to say about anything except your impression of ME (or even personal little critiques of my words.)

I've said plenty here about how I feel about Lindaland and how I wish we could treat each other.

I'm not sure anything constructive could be accomplished by you telling me how much my asking us to be nice to one another annoys you.

Can you think of anything constructive that arguing with a person for asking people to be nice could accomplish?

Please, enlighten me.

daf

P.S. And if we don't plan on accomplishing anything by critiquing people's requests that others be nicer, then isn't responding to that request with critique a bit pointless?

posted August 09, 2004 06:41 PM            

You expect to demonize people and then play nice daf? The more I read, the less inclined I am to accept your explanation that you had "good intentions".

Case in point, your words and actions seem designed to split, divide and polarize the membership here into two camps.

Nor do I buy your story it's just you and one other concerned member who concocted this little plot dafremen.

quote:

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1. There were no email campaigns that I know of designed to discredit any of the people appearing on this thread. There was an email to me asking if I felt that Lindaland was becoming a less inviting place to be. I did.

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quote:

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We know you are here. We have come together where you will not find us and have compared notes. We know your motives, we know your intent and we know your tactics even if our dear brothers and sisters here do not.

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quote:

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I think I've been fairly specific. I've identified everything except the people who at least four of us have come to a consensus as being the source of the "nastiness." Some of them aren't nasty seeming folks at all. They're just the most pleasant sorts you could ever want to know...except. And really that's the difficulty..in certain belief systems, they call these entities the djinn.

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quote:

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and there's no secret council, ther eis a group of friends who have been here for a VERY long time

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posted August 09, 2004 06:51 PM            

I became a target, whether you realized it or not. I have already said over and over that people USED what you intimated as fuel for the fire.

There are people here that are so wanting to be a part of the "metaphysical" in crowd that they gather around pointing fingers at those that they THINK are on the outs.

I said just as Randall did - it was the way things were worded, the miscontruing of meanings that led to the finger-pointing. Then there were the vague allegations "Those that feel uncomfortable must be feeling guilty".

Yes, I did ask what was up in the chat. I was wondering where in the hell you got off starting such a thing. It is MY right to question, to ask and not to go along like a sheep following someone. That is NOT my style.

I did not lead your second string into an attack - if you noticed I made small talk - innocent chatter until Paras called me out. Then it became a deal between he and I, then your friend Shizuka jumped in and posted the chat dialogue.

Hey DAF..READ THE PRIVACY part. It states that no one will use the chat or take from the chat to post elsewhere (that is a bit of a paraphrase) that is it private, between consensual people.

IF I had read others talking about me I would have done one of two things (which is apparant in my PAST posts) 1) I would have jumped in and set things straight 2) I would have kept my mouth shut and maybe talked about it off line in an e-mail to a fellow friend.

I would NOT have posted YOUR dialogue or anyone elses here.

ONCE AGAIN, the thread went from just indirectly talking about beer and people saying things in a chat (which was fine) to an all out attack on us by YOUR followers.

And Daf, how could I NOT think I was part of the "evil forces" did you not see the attacks aimed at people like jwhop, isis, lioneye and myself? People that were just WAITING to pounce on us because we took them to task in other threads, because we posted factual links and information just couldn't wait to point the finger. It pi$$ed me off.

There already exists a contingent of left leaning people HERE that think the conservatives are evil, vile human beings. I think you know what I mean.

posted August 09, 2004 06:55 PM            

If so, you don't think calling me Butch was insulting at all or insinuating that because I am a strong woman that is direct in my communcations, so that means I must be an overly masculine woman that needs tips from her to be more feminine?

Is THAT what you mean by someone not communicating effectively and then getting JUMPED?

I do hope she is not your wife, because she was extremely RUDE and had no right to say such things - then post the chat dialogue.

And for the record I DETEST the arguments, but what I detest more is when others start their finger-pointing, their holier than thou attitude and expect us to all fall into line.

posted August 09, 2004 07:18 PM            

quote:

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Please, enlighten me

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quote:

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No, in fact, I'll assume for a second that you're NOT trying to deny your intentions in order to make me out to be a hypocrite.

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quote:

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(Although dontcha think a simple, "daf that's not what I meant. I don't think you're a preacher, it just seemed that way to me" would have sufficed?

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quote:

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Not that a Scorp would want to take the combative route to anywhere. Heavens NO! Mars and Pluto...Mars and Pluto..sigh)

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quote:

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So your actual intention was to point out that I sound like a Preacher because that would accomplish...?

---

quote:

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And your point in showing how quick I am to misinterpret OTHER people's words was to accomplish....?

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quote:

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If you'd like to fight with someone, there are PLENTY of boards across the web with much more challenging opponents.

---

quote:

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Why choose Lindaland?

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quote:

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Why be the antagonist (or protagonist if you prefer) here?

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quote:

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Is there a reason that it continues do you think?

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quote:

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Could any of it start with you?

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quote:

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Or is it everyone else that forces you to respond in a manner that only serves to belittle others?

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See Daf, if I want to call someone a hypocrite, I'm not a coward about it, using innuendo and passive agressiveness. I'll just come right out and say it.

quote:

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I mean, if your intention isn't to belitte me, and you aren't good enough at saying what you mean, to SAY what you mean without my interpreting it wrong...wouldn't silence be a better alternative?

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quote:

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I'd like to hear what you have to say about anything except your impression of ME (or even personal little critiques of my words.)

---

quote:

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I've said plenty here about how I feel about Lindaland and how I wish we could treat each other. I'm not sure anything constructive could be accomplished by you telling me how much my asking us to be nice to one another annoys you.

---

You have some nerve Daf. Before I wasn't calling you a hypocrite. Now I am. A paranoid hypocrite with an Ego that knows no bounds.

And I am a combative ***** when I need to be.

You throw a boulder into the pond, then curse at the water for splashing you. If you don't like some of us, I suggest you do what everyone does when they don't like someone, stay away from them. But to try and divide people, causing a drama in which you are the star, in order to try and get rid of those you don't like is dysfunctional.

Also, it is IMO cowardly to talk sh!t then erase your words, even if you were wrong. Your ego rearing its ugly head again I see.

Yes, I can be a bi@ch. Hypocrites make me angry. People reading into my words when my words were fairly succinct and to the point annoys me. People putting words in my mouth when I said nothing of the sort pi$$es me off. And when people do that repeatedly, I can become a bi@ch. If Randall would like me to leave because of it, I would respect that. But if it's you that would like me to leave Daf, I'm afriad I'll have to disappoint ya