posted August 19, 2004 07:56 PM            

So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "In God we trust" to be on our money, then, so be it.

And if that same government decides that the "Ten Commandments" are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it.

And since they already have prohibited any prayer in the schools, on which they deem their authority, then so be it.

I say, "so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US Citizen I say, "so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions. I would like to think that those people have the American Publics' best interests at heart.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?

Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot Post His Commandments in Government buildings, I don't believe the Government and it's employees should participate in the Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life.

I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Thanksgiving, Good Friday & Easter. After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Thanksgiving, Good Friday & Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the Senate and the House of representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the "Christmas Break." After all it's just another day.

I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Thanksgiving, Christmas, Good Friday & Easter. It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct"

In fact.... I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set aside for worshiping God...) because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day....

What do you all think???? If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the majority of ALL of the American people.

So be it..........

(An e mail I received)

posted August 19, 2004 08:10 PM            

I agree wholeheartedly.

posted August 20, 2004 12:20 AM              

This is a great topic! Good for you for bringing it up!

posted August 20, 2004 09:02 AM            

I'm not religious, but I like holidays.
Of course, I work most holidays anyway, the company for which I work requires it. Many of my co-workers do work on Xmas (and no, this is not a convenience store ).

People should believe in whatever God/dess they want. We literally can pray to God/dess, trust in God/dess, and if we choose, follow the Christian Ten Commandments. But I would agree they have no place representing the beliefs of all Americans.

Peace, brothahs and sistahs.

posted August 21, 2004 07:21 PM              

You are aware that, before Christmas was taken over by materialism, it had a religious significance? Something to do with the birth of a deity. So when the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Pagan, atheists, and agnostics are told that they have a Christmas vacation, they tend to get a little annoyed.... it's like they're assumed to be Christian.

But the government is fully aware that a majority of its citizens and employees are Christian, and it makes perfect sense for them to be given holidays when their religion requires it. That's why SCOTUS takes breaks every now and then.

I don't know whether you posted that e-mail in agreement or irony, juni. It seems to assume that we all should be indignant over the failure of the government to respect Christianity as the state religion. Personally I find that suggestion to be offensive.

posted August 22, 2004 02:27 AM            

It wasn't until Constantine that these "Celebrations of the Gods" started to change over to the "Celebrations of the Christ"!

Is it strange that there's even a name that is De Jesus, but is pronounced as Hey Zeus?

That's why I laugh when I hear that these "Bible Bangers" rebuke Halloween(which was just another Greek and Roman holiday), what, they like one holiday from the same people that they hate another holiday for, I don't get it!

posted August 22, 2004 03:21 AM            

Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities. During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter.

By A.D. 43, Romans had conquered the majority of Celtic territory. In the course of the four hundred years that they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain. The first was Feralia, a day in late October when the Romans traditionally commemorated the passing of the dead. The second was a day to honor Pomona, the Roman goddess of fruit and trees. The symbol of Pomona is the apple and the incorporation of this celebration into Samhain probably explains the tradition of "bobbing" for apples that is practiced today on Halloween.

By the 800s, the influence of Christianity had spread into Celtic lands. In the seventh century, Pope Boniface IV designated November 1 All Saints' Day, a time to honor saints and martyrs. It is widely believed today that the pope was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, but church-sanctioned holiday. The celebration was also called All-hallows or All-hallowmas (from Middle English Alholowmesse meaning All Saints' Day) and the night before it, the night of Samhain, began to be called All-hallows Eve and, eventually, Halloween. Even later, in A.D. 1000, the church would make November 2 All Souls' Day, a day to honor the dead. It was celebrated similarly to Samhain, with big bonfires, parades, and dressing up in costumes as saints, angels, and devils. Together, the three celebrations, the eve of All Saints', All Saints', and All Souls', were called Hallowmas.

But as you can see, the whole idea of Halloween was celebrated thoughout most of late summer and even as long as till Christmas thoughout most of the world:

Autumn Plantings
Bulbs- plant for spring blooms or pot for forcing indoors
Spinach- overwinter for early spring greens
Beets- overwinter for early spring greens
Swiss Chard- overwinter for early spring greens
Arugula- overwinter for early spring greens
Kale- overwinter for early spring greens
Carrots- overwinter in the ground for late fall and early spring harvest
Parsnips- overwinter in the ground for late fall and early spring harvest
Garlic- plant for next year
Radishes- plant for harvest in late fall

Autumn Equinox

The Feast of the August Moon, Fall Equinox, Second Harvest Festival, Chusok or `Moon Festival', Festival of Dionysus, Wine Harvest, Cornucopia, Feast of Avalon, Harvest Home, Festival of Greenery

Every agrarian culture I've read about, past or present, has a way of celebrating the year's harvest. Today's celebrations are the descendents ancient ones. They mostly happen between Autumn Equinox (September 23 this year) and Halloween or Samhain, October 31, some a bit earlier. They often link the cycles of death and life, honouring the dead as well as the harvest. In many cultures, these things are intertwined.

Harvest is over, winter is coming, and people have both the time and the reason to celebrate and relax. It's a time to enjoy plentiful food while it lasts: winter can be a time of scarcity or at least monotony when it comes to food.

First Nations peoples have held harvest festivals in North American for thousands of years. In the States and Canada holidays like Thanksgiving came to the New World along with the first Europeans. European harvest festivals originated from pagan celebrations like Mabon, the pagan Celtic festival held on the Equinox.

Fall fairs, another tradition in North America, began in Europe as trading meets held in the days after harvest.
Todays' celebrations find a place for many crops that are historical symbols of autumn: sheaves of corn and wheat, grapes and wine, gourds, dried leaves, rattles, horns of plenty, seeds and nuts, apple cider, squash, pumpkins.
The first jack-o-lanterns were hollowed out turnips with candles inside.
According to the Smithsonian Institute, "Most of the credit for the establishment of an annual Thanksgiving holiday may be given to Sarah Josepha Hale. Editor of Ladies Magazine and Godey's Lady's Book, she began to agitate for such a day in 1827 by printing articles in the magazines. She also published stories and recipes, and wrote scores of letters to governors, senators and presidents." On October 3, 1863, President Lincoln proclaimed the new American holiday of Thanksgiving.
In Japan, Autumn Equinox Day is a national holiday marking the change of seasons and paying respects to the dead.
German peasants at one time broke the first straws of hay harvested and said "This is food for the dead."
Buddists celebrate equality on the equinox, the time of the year when day and night are of equal length.
Moon cakes are the traditional food of harvest and thanksgiving festivals held in Korea.
The first Thanksgiving service known to be held by Europeans in North America was in Newfoundland on May 27, 1578.
In England, the last sheaf of corn harvested represented the `spirit of the field'. It was made into a doll. Corn dolls were drenched with water representing rain or burned to represent the death of the grain spirit. At other times they were kept until the following spring.
The Polish Feast of Greenery involves bringing bouquets and foods for blessing by a priest, then using them for medicine or keeping them until the following years harvest.
The Roman celebration was dedicated to Pomona, goddess of fruits and growing things.

...but we can move onto another cool favorite, but this wasn't the first time that this holiday was "outlawed"!

...continued onto the next post.

posted August 22, 2004 03:36 AM            

The end of December was a perfect time for celebration in most areas of Europe. At that time of year, most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter. For many, it was the only time of year when they had a supply of fresh meat. In addition, most wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking.

In Germany, people honored the pagan god Oden during the mid-winter holiday. Germans were terrified of Oden, as they believed he made nocturnal flights through the sky to observe his people, and then decide who would prosper or perish. Because of his presence, many people chose to stay inside.

In Rome, where winters were not as harsh as those in the far north, Saturnalia—a holiday in honor of Saturn, the god of agriculture—was celebrated. Beginning in the week leading up to the winter solstice and continuing for a full month, Saturnalia was a hedonistic time, when food and drink were plentiful and the normal Roman social order was turned upside down. For a month, slaves would become masters. Peasants were in command of the city. Business and schools were closed so that everyone could join in the fun.
Also around the time of the winter solstice, Romans observed Juvenalia, a feast honoring the children of Rome. In addition, members of the upper classes often celebrated the birthday of Mithra, the god of the unconquerable sun, on December 25. It was believed that Mithra, an infant god, was born of a rock. For some Romans, Mithra's birthday was the most sacred day of the year.

In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger.

By holding Christmas at the same time as traditional winter solstice festivals, church leaders increased the chances that Christmas would be popularly embraced, but gave up the ability to dictate how it was celebrated. By the Middle Ages, Christianity had, for the most part, replaced pagan religion. On Christmas, believers attended church, then celebrated raucously in a drunken, carnival-like atmosphere similar to today's Mardi Gras. Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. The poor would go to the houses of the rich and demand their best food and drink. If owners failed to comply, their visitors would most likely terrorize them with mischief. Christmas became the time of year when the upper classes could repay their real or imagined "debt" to society by entertaining less fortunate citizens.

Now imagin that!


In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.

After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789, the first Christmas under America's new constitution. Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.

It wasn't until the 19th century that Americans began to embrace Christmas. Americans re-invented Christmas, and changed it from a raucous carnival holiday into a family-centered day of peace and nostalgia. But what about the 1800s peaked American interest in the holiday?
The early 19th century was a period of class conflict and turmoil. During this time, unemployment was high and gang rioting by the disenchanted classes often occurred during the Christmas season. In 1828, the New York city council instituted the city's first police force in response to a Christmas riot. This catalyzed certain members of the upper classes to begin to change the way Christmas was celebrated in America.

In 1819, best-selling author Washington Irving wrote The Sketchbook of Geoffrey Crayon, gent., a series of stories about the celebration of Christmas in an English manor house. The sketches feature a squire who invited the peasants into his home for the holiday. In contrast to the problems faced in American society, the two groups mingled effortlessly. In Irving's mind, Christmas should be a peaceful, warm-hearted holiday bringing groups together across lines of wealth or social status. Irving's fictitious celebrants enjoyed "ancient customs," including the crowning of a Lord of Misrule. Irving's book, however, was not based on any holiday celebration he had attended—in fact, many historians say that Irving's account actually "invented" tradition by implying that it described the true customs of the season.

Also around this time, English author Charles Dickens created the classic holiday tale, A Christmas Carol. The story's message—the importance of charity and good will towards all humankind—struck a powerful chord in the United States and England and showed members of Victorian society the benefits of celebrating the holiday.
The family was also becoming less disciplined and more sensitive to the emotional needs of children during the early 1800s. Christmas provided families with a day when they could lavish attention—and gifts—on their children without appearing to "spoil" them.

As Americans began to embrace Christmas as a perfect family holiday, old customs were unearthed. People looked toward recent immigrants and Catholic and Episcopalian churches to see how the day should be celebrated. In the next 100 years, Americans built a Christmas tradition all their own that included pieces of many other customs, including decorating trees, sending holiday cards, and gift-giving. Although most families quickly bought into the idea that they were celebrating Christmas how it had been done for centuries, Americans had really re-invented a holiday to fill the cultural needs of a growing nation.

...and the moral to this story is: Don't mess with Christmas or we're gonna have to chop your @$$ off!!!