posted October 24, 2004 01:49 AM              

The reason that I ask is because even when someone puts in a post with the intention of trying to start a serious discussion it gets interrupted by partisan politics and hate words directed at people just because they have an opposing view.

That does not create a climate where we can have any intelligent or serious discussions on world events and share our opinions about them. All it leads to is bickering back and forth and I think it is a deliberate ploy on the part of a few people around here to prevent any discussions that they don't want to hear or know about.

I came here to share opinions with others to learn what others feel and think about the situation in our world today. To share insights and maybe learn from each other.

posted October 24, 2004 02:14 AM              

Just because I give an opposing view and support Kerry does not mean that I came here to trash the president even though admittedly I am not a fan of Bush's. I have put in posts to counteract jwhops post so both sides can be heard. I think that is only fair and the way it should be in a democracy.

posted October 24, 2004 02:58 AM            

Your post is a perfect example. While whining about your right to post comments against Bush and for Kerry, you also whine that I shouldn't be permitted to comment on what you post or attack Kerry.

By what logic or rule do you assert special privilege to post what you wish without fair comment on your posts in rebuttal?

By what logic or rule do you assert that Kerry is a sacred cow and not subject to attack?

By what logic or rule do you assert that Bush is a target at which you can fire at will but comments on your attack are over the line?

I never call the cops Mirandee, I can take care of myself.

BTW, are you suggesting I'm in need of speech therapy?

posted October 24, 2004 03:22 AM            

You don't need to worry about what people will think of you, even though your subjected to JW, you can either just go with the flow of it or just ignore him, he'll get tired of feeling like he is just talking to himself anyway, he get's bored with his followers though, because they tend to always agree with every single thing that he has to say, you have to confess, it does get kinda boring after a while!

Just whatever you do, don't think that we have a less opinion of you, no matter what he says or does, we all know that JW hates everybody and your just the "new fish" in the tank, being exposed to the Lindaland policies of this site!

Welcome aboard!

posted October 24, 2004 04:57 AM              

I've already reported this to Randall. Let's see if he does anything about it.

posted October 24, 2004 05:11 AM              

There were very few people here at GU then, who held the same views that I did, and I took a mercyless "beating" from the "bushies"...so much so...that I exited for awhile....

It felt good to come back and see that more people were "daring" to stand up to them...but the females who were tearing me down don't seem to be around now...hmmmmm

posted October 24, 2004 06:39 AM            

Rainbow
You have a good point. I haven't been around here forever, so I can't say that it always has been a certain way. I was only speaking from my personal experience. I do think it's insulting to be called a communist when you're not, I just had never heard jwhop (or anyone else here) refer to someone, personally and in particular, as a communist ... it's usually something like, "all you leftist communists" or "all those liberal, mindless, marxists" or something along those lines. Offensive in general, not specifically at someone. But, again, I haven't read each and every post made here ... and, in the end, it's still Randall's decision. Randall's a good ol' Cappy, you know, so I'm sure he'll make the right decision in the end, as always.

posted October 24, 2004 06:59 AM            

quote:

---

Nice propaganda shots laff. Who's Eric Blumrich laff? Could be the propaganda minister for Saddam Hussein. For that matter you could be too.

---

I think that it is unfair that you think that Laff is in the red over that, even if it doesn't mean the same thing that you want to read it as, doesn't mean that JW is exempt to it, because Laff didn't say it the same way that JW did. A rose is still a rose, ya know!

That's like me saying that JW has mention that I speak only communist drivel, but you say that is not true, what he really meant was that I talk stupidly and childishly about a theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

posted October 24, 2004 11:06 AM            

Laff, you blazed into this Forum like you were on a mission from the left, so I'm surprised to hear you complain about anyone else. I've seen you get very emotional in your Bush-bashing. Jwhop's Post was still not a direct insult. He made an observation about the posting of pics after Saddam's reign without referencing the vile acts during Saddam's rule. Borderline? Yes. Jwhop is good about walking that fine line. It's not easy keeping free speech here and maintaining order and balance at the same time.

posted October 24, 2004 01:01 PM            

No matter how they attempt to slice the cheese, the fact remains that if we had listened to them, Saddam would most surely still be in power in Iraq and the Taliban would most surely be in power in Afghanistan, still raping, torturing, murdering, shredding and suppressing the people there and plotting the destruction of the United States.

Saddam should be laying some of that 10 billion dollars on them that he looted from the Oil for Food Program run out of the utterly corrupt UN, for Saddam never had truer friends than those who attempted in every way possible to keep him in power. Worse, they did it for ideological reasons and NOT from being bribed as were French, German, Russian and UN officials who benefited greatly from keeping Saddam in power.

Nor am I prepared to hear any humanitarian arguments from those who would have kept the most inhumane butchers in recent memory in power or any antiwar nonsense from the likes of John Kerry.

Wrong war, wrong time, wrong place....indeed

posted October 24, 2004 03:01 PM              

And the whole point of this post is because of your attempts at silencing the rest of us. Stop projecting what you do onto me and telling me I do it.

You interrupt good threads where there could be some good exchanges in thought with your partisan, mudslinging BS just to start arguments so the topic gets lost in all the arguing. You do that because you don't want us to talk about the subject. Mainly because you can't talk about anything with reason and logic because you have none.

posted October 24, 2004 03:09 PM              

It's true, Jwhop doesn't DIRECTLY insult anyone... he bends the rules, he doesn't blatantly break them.

Jwhop tests us all.

Then only thing I can say is...

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Mirandee, this isn't directed at you, but just a general statement.

I have bent the rules myself, all over these boards, often in the same way (mind you not as frequently, but in the same way none the less).

When we get p!ssed at him, he achieves his goal... to p!ss you off. Once you have become emotional, you are not effective in debate. He's won. (sorry to speak for you here, JW, but this is how I see it).

Anyhoo... I don't agree with JW on much, but I respect his ability to keep GU interesting.

Jwhop (I know you Leo's love your kisses )

P.S.

posted October 24, 2004 03:13 PM              

Nor am I "whining" Star. THAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION. I encounter Bush people everywhere and they repeat the same mantras as he does and act the same way he does. I just feel sorry for them for not being self thinkers. They don't bother me personally. I can handle jwhop and the rest of them. I think that I have made that obvious here. So please, none of you worry that he bothers me personally.

The only thing that bothers me is that we cannot have any discussion on a presented topic without it being interrupted with jwhops name calling and partisan BS. Just because he does not like the topic.

Yes, he does personally attack individuals. He has called me a "lefist" and a "marxist." That kind of thing, name calling and labeling is something that all Bush people do because they follow his example.

I would be the last person on earth to want to squelch anyone's right to free speech and to give their thoughts and opinions. How they do that is another matter. It CAN be done in a civilized way without the slandering and name calling and telling everyone they are lying because they have a different opinion. If anyone is trying to squelch freedom of speech or an opposing viewpoint it is jwhop and his followers.

Star, you are a moderator and you can at times be equally as bad as jwhop for coming onto threads as you did last night and being rude and name calling. That sets a poor a example for a moderator to do that in my opinion.

Actually, I guess I shouldn't have put this post in because what I see here is just a reflection of the division that the Bush administration has caused in this country and the rest of the world. The slandering and name calling is just a reflection of the example he has set for his supporters. But really people, you should be self-thinkers and follow your own values of how to treat people and not follow the exampe that Bush has set regarding behavior and conduct.

posted October 24, 2004 03:16 PM              

quote:

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The only thing that bothers me is that we cannot have any discussion on a presented topic without it being interrupted with jwhops name calling and partisan BS. Just because he does not like the topic.

---

posted October 24, 2004 03:58 PM            

We are called fanatics, extremists, rude, vile, merciless and yet we have ALL been on the other end of the bashing before from people of the left.

So to me it seems hypocritical for one to expect that they should have the right to post topics against the right without receiving comments in defense from those of the right.

When jwhop, isis, or myself has ever posted anything remotely against the left and for the right, we can expect someone to counter it, put us down and then spew out their own agenda. Fine, we deal with it because you have that right to defend your beliefs. If challenged, we stand up and defend what we say either by stating it is our opinion or finding the facts.

That is how a debate goes, that is how people exchange ideas- even when it does cross the line at times.

I find it hard to believe that there are people that will come to this site, post their own soap box rantings and then get upset and run to the moderator when challenged.

~Pidaua

posted October 24, 2004 07:19 PM              

Is Arizona agreeing with you? Hope so...

(I forgive you for calling me pond scum)

posted October 24, 2004 08:07 PM            

Let JW state his opinion, because he is only telling you the parts of the truth that he wants you to hear anyway, but if you look hard enough, the rest of that truth is something that he also has stated before, even a while ago, ya just gotta look!

This part(for example) leaves out a mystery that he himself has stated, but if you keep losing you head, you'll never find it! Back up a few paces and you will! Stop thinking that everybody is judging you over him and learn from him, not BY him, but from him! You stick around long enough, you will see what I mean!

Like I'll argue this, that the only reason why Saddam has gotten to do all that he got to do with his own people in the first place is the fact that Saddam was hired to do so by the (Herbert Walker) Bush adminastration!

posted October 24, 2004 08:27 PM              

I agree that here, just like in our everyday offline lives, both sides, both Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty of starting arguments and name calling.

I agree with you, Libra, that if not for the opposing view we would be preaching to the choir and so would Bush supporters. That is why it is so important to oppose and debate -so that both sides are heard. That is true freedom of speech. However name calling and labeling and accusing people who disagree with you of being communists and Marxists does not encourage freedom of speech. It is designed only to stifle freedom of speech. It only encourages arguments because people WILL defend themselves. It also makes other people angry. I admit that in anger I have returned insults with insults which is not right.

If we can all agree on the common ground that freedom of speech is essential, then we should be able to work out ways of exercising freedom of speech without name calling. Yelling at other people is not debate. Calling other people names is not debate. That is why I don't like O'Reilly. He does that to his guests and the result is that he discourages freedom of speech and fair exchange by not even allowing the invited guests speak. My God, the man has even cut the mike off of guests. That is not encouraging freedom of speech and in fact is just plain rude after inviting the person to be on his show.

Pidua, I have read the posts where you, Isis and jwhop attacked Rainbow vehemently for posting things regarding Bush. So the pot calling the kettle black doesn't wash.

quote:

---

So to me it seems hypocritical for one to expect that they should have the right to post topics against the right without receiving comments in defense from those of the right.

---

That is true and it works both ways. Therefore when jwhop puts in posts titled "Democrats Register al Quada Terrorists" he is pretty much begging for us to come in and defend that statement. All of the posts he has put in since I have been have amounted to nothing more than Kerry and Democrat bashing. When we offer our opinion and even proof to the contrary we get called names and told we are liars. Which is what the three of you did to Rainbow in those posts. You ganged up on her. Three against one. Does that sound like fair play to you? Were you allowing her freedom of speech?

I point out the hypocrisy of those posts that jwhop puts in here by counteracting them as in the case when jwhop put in a post titled, "How Low Will They Go?," which amounted to Democrat and Kerry bashing and I countered it with a post titled, " How Low Will Tom DeLay Go?," to point out the hypocrisy of his post. I never said that Democrats are angels. They aren't. But then again, neither are the Republicans. Though I'm sure jwhop does not see it that way at all. Jwhop appears to inhabit a black and white world which is divided into camps of the "good guys" and the "bad guys." And an "Us and Them" mentality.

Maybe it would be good to discuss the underlying reason for all the arguing and bashing which is that it is very obvious in this election that in the four years of Bush's administration the U.S. has become divided like no time in history since the Civil War. Why do you think the country is so divided? Why is the U.S. divided so badly from the rest of the world? Why are Americans fighting with each other when we are all Americans? Why are we so isolated from the rest of the world when we all belong to a community of humankind?