posted November 03, 2004 12:24 AM              

A Republican goon was walking around harassing the poll workers counting the votes and the courts here said that all the poll monitors, both Republican and Democrats, could only watch and they could only speak to the precinct workers if there was a question. Anyway, not only was he doing that while they were counting the ballots but he was picking up the ballots and saying, "this one isn't valid, this one isn't valid," and so on. So a fight broke out and 15 Detroit cop cars arrived on the scene and broke it up. They threw the guy out but he was being belligerent to the cops and telling them the election was invalid.

A Detroit councilwoman was there and saw the whole thing. She said it is a felony to touch ballots unless you are a poll worker. But he was touching and picking up the ballots!! I am so mad. There will no doubt be a lawsuit over this and Michigan's results will not be in for a long time.

I hope they called the Democratic party and Common Cause's hot line to report this because the national news is not reporting it at all. And in a fascist nation like we live in now that just figures.

posted November 03, 2004 10:43 AM              

He hasn't won yet. Ohio is close and all the votes haven't been tabulated yet. Plus there are more states that haven't had all the votes tabulated. Better wait until those eggs are hatched. If Bush does win the closeness of this race should tell him that half of the people of the U.S. are intelligent and don't live in a Jerry Springer world. Half of the people in the U.S. aren't easily fooled. But then again he doesn't doesn't concentrate on that half. He said it himself, " You can fool half of the people all of the time and those are the ones you should concentrate on." Guess he has your number, pidua.

Here are some articles regarding what took place yesterday. Doesn't really matter because Kerry won Michigan anyway. At least those of us who live in Michigan have common sense, don't let fear control our lives, want to keep the U.S. a democracy rather than a Theocracy, and don't vote based on one issue. Shows that most Michigan folks are intelligent enough to be informed of the facts and issues before voting.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3885622/de tail.html?treets=det&tid=2651698436813&tml=det_9am&tmi=det_9am_1_08000011032004&ts=H

Ballot-Counting Scuffle Brings Police To Cobo Hall
Republican Challengers Accused Of Touching Ballots

POSTED: 11:48 pm EST November 2, 2004
UPDATED: 12:20 am EST November 3, 2004

Detroit police were called to Cobo Hall Tuesday night to settle a heated dispute over some absentee ballots, Local 4 reported.

The scuffle started when some Republican challengers reportedly noticed some absentee ballots did not have signatures.

Some accused the challengers of touching the ballots, which is against state law, according to Local 4 reports.

"These were Republican challengers from outside the city of Detroit who actually touched some absentee ballots. That's a felony and we're going to look into that," said Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick.

Republican Attorney Jerry Mason said the challengers were confronted by a group of people when challenging the ballots.

"I asked for help from these people to come in and count and then some folks got in some of the poll challengers faces and accused them of intimidation," Mason said. "It got dangerous to the point where police had to be called in."

The Detroit Police Department said officers arranged a compromise, which would permit five Democrats and five Republicans to monitor the ballot counting.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3884147/detail.html

Voters Complain Of Door Hangers, Election Watchers
Liberal Interest Group Denies Causing Disruption

POSTED: 4:56 pm EST November 2, 2004
UPDATED: 9:56 pm EST November 2, 2004

DETROIT -- Orange door hangers and election watchers were among the topics of complaint for voters in Michigan on Monday, Local 4 reported.

The hangers apparently gave some voters the wrong information on where they were supposed to vote.

"Today, in the city of Detroit, these orange door hangers have been distributed, allegedly telling people where to go and vote, but they are telling people the wrong polling place," said Michigan Democratic Chairman Mark Brewer. "These are being distributed by a group called the Michigan Citizens Education Fund, that nobody has ever heard of and we fully suspect is a sham Republican group that's part of these dirty tricks."

The secretary of state's office said there were complaints that members of liberal interest group MoveOn.Org were causing disruptions at precincts in communities scattered across the state.

Kelly Chesney, spokeswoman for Michigan Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land, said several local election clerks complained about MoveOn.Org, saying its representatives wanted tables at polling places. The organization, she said, also wanted voters redirected in some cases so they passed in front of MoveOn.Org representatives.

Complaints were made by elections officials in Lansing, Troy, Ferndale, Grand Rapids and Milford, Chesney said. She noted that poll watchers are not allowed to campaign within 100 feet of the polls or confront voters.

"We're not making any special accommodations for that or any other group that shows up at the polls," Chesney said. Eli Pariser, executive director of MoveOn PAC, the political action committee for MoveOn.Org, denied claims in Michigan and some other states that some of the group's 70,000 volunteers were interfering with the election.

"We appear to be the victim of an orchestrated and premeditated Republican effort to create a phony storyline they can use to challenge the results if this election is close," Pariser said during a conference call. "They're trying to paint MoveOn as the bogeyman of this election."

Republicans are good for that and those that they can fool all the time believe everything they say too. Pathetic really. Though again, I don't rule out what you said, Aquarian Girl, it could be that both the left and right were pulling things. Actually on the news here this morning it said the fight at Cobo during the vote count was between the Repubilican monitors and the Democrat monitors and not the polling people. Who knows what the real truth is anymore? This country is so divided. When you look at the states that Kerry won compared to the states that Bush won it almost smacks of the Civil War. The North and the South division. I think that is due to the conservative, fundamentalist Bible Belt as compared to the North where people tend to be more moderate regarding religious beliefs and issues.

The same sex marriage proposal that Michigan and some other states had on the ballot passed. I regret that about Michigan. I voted against that proposal mainly because I know that is already law in Michigan regarding marriage as between a man and woman and all this proposal does is to say to the rest of the country that Michigan is intolerant of gay people.

posted November 03, 2004 10:52 AM              

quote:

---

Republican Attorney Jerry Mason said the challengers were confronted by a group of people when challenging the ballots.

"I asked for help from these people to come in and count and then some folks got in some of the poll challengers faces and accused them of intimidation," Mason said. "It got dangerous to the point where police had to be called in."

---

What the Republican challenger says here is a lie. I saw it on TV last night when it happened and he was being a total jerk, very belligerant to the Detroit police and the polling people. He kept saying, " This is an illegal election." They should know illegal. It is illegal to them if Kerry is winning.

Also in Michigan people were getting phone calls telling them their precincts had been changed and sending them to the wrong precincts. That way they could challenge them and cry illegalities if it happened that Bush needed Michigan to win since it was a swing state.

Bunch of criminals and Fascists!!!!

posted November 03, 2004 10:59 AM              

Sure, there are still votes to count, and integrity calls us to count all the votes. Still doesn't look promising for Kerry.

I should have voted for Nader I'm sure a lot of people are kicking themselves now for going with Kerry.

I do think, though, that this election with help strengthen the Democratic party. They will be able to look back on this and see where they went wrong. Personally, next time, I think they need to convince the Evangelical vote that it really doesn't make much sense for them to vote Republican since the majority of them (as the majority of Americans) are not rich white men.

I think it's quite clear that Fear and Religion won this election for Bush. All that really needs to be done in the future is to get those religious votes. Republicans have so demonetized Democrats in the bible belt. It won't be too hard to turn that around. They just have to put forth the effort. It doesn't take a whole lot to prove many Republicans are very un-Christian-like.

Don't give up hope people. The religious folks in this country cannot continue to force their morals and values on the rest of us. Patience and planning will eventually pay off.

It will be very interesting to see this pan out. I think people will respond more to Bush's attitude about winning than Kerry's attitude about losing. Bush really needs to address secular America if he wants the country to truly be united. He cannot continue to ignore our voices.

posted November 03, 2004 11:24 AM              

It's true that the Evangelical religious right did have a great influence on this election. Sad that those people can't see that not doing anything to help the poor and under priviledged is as much a moral issue as is abortion rights and stem cell research. In fact, it is more of a moral issue because Jesus said, "what you do to the least of these, you also do to me." Helping the poor and downtrodden in society was Jesus's main teachings and his example.

Making people poorer does not help the abortion rate either. It has risen since Bush has been in office and it declined when Clinton was in office. That is in another post I put in. Why has it risen? Because of lost jobs which create more poverty. When the economy is bad the abortion rate climbs because people simply cannot afford to have children. That is especially true in urban areas and among minorities. So while Bush will continue to create more poverty in America with his economic polices, and we know he will cause he "stays the course" no matter what, the abortion rate will continue to climb thereby defeating the purpose he and the religious right want to achieve.

posted November 03, 2004 12:21 PM            

It's good to see that people came out to vote and chose the right man.

posted November 03, 2004 12:22 PM              

Could someone please ask Mr McCain to run again. Please.

posted November 03, 2004 01:59 PM              

I second that

posted November 04, 2004 05:29 PM            

What I mean by that is how many people decided to vote simply because this super-controversial issue was on the ballot? And in large part, (although not in entirety) I believe that these voters are probably the kinds of people who have no problems with the Ten Commandments being on display in government buildings.

The issue of gay marriage, whether right or wrong, does not belong to the government. This is a religious issue. Religion shouldn't play a role in government in a country that ensures religious freedom to its citizens.

Just concerned about this...

Carissa

By the way, I did vote for Bush. I also voted for gay marriage.