posted November 07, 2004 01:14 PM              

This post concerns the Guru thread in the Universal Codes Forum, which can be found here:

Follow me, I am Your Guru

Much has been said about how a true Teacher wouldn't make the statements that the Pir(magidivision, a Sufi Master) has made in his Guru thread.

There have been those who claim that his post is full of ego. There are those who insinuate that his post is full of false claims. There are others who claim that his post is an attempt to persuade people to follow blindly.

In a way, all of this is true, but none of it is a reflection upon the Pir himself.

Rather, these are reflections of the nature of our own hearts: full of ego and making false claims, persuading us to blindly follow our passions with no true notion of what those passions contain, or which part of us they come from.

When I first read that post, I was as taken aback as many of you. When I learned that it was the Pir who wrote it, I read it again.
I won't presume to speak for the Pir, but it was THEN that it became apparent to me that he was speaking not as himself, but as though he were our hearts.

(Note that my interpretation may differ from the Pir's, that's ok. That is one of the things we are learning, to listen to our impressions and learn about ourselves from the questions we ask, and the way we interpret things.)

To me, the word "guru" meant exactly what Linda said it meant, "Gee You Are You", your inner essence. Translated in this light, the post says:

"Follow Me, I am Your Inner Essence."

Taken in this context, the rest of the post makes perfect sense:

We are, in our current state, residents of the Valley of Bewilderment. If our hearts didn't talk to Linda Goodman (and she to our hearts) would we be here at Linda-Goodman.com?

It's power is INDEED from another dimension. If you truly seek after truth, then your heart is there, at WHATEVER time you decide to listen to it. That is when the time has come.

You can DOUBT your inner essence and what it has been trying to tell you, but before you do, ask it questions. It does have all of the answers.

It is one with all and so was there with the prophets and great Teachers.

It knows all of the secret arts, because it knows Truth and each of these areas is but a fragment of that truth as distorted by bewildered hearts.

It's thoughts are the purest and its love is with you...always prepared to guide you to the Light.

That was my interpretation of the post, once I realized that GURU meant "Inner Voice" or "Inner Essence" as Linda taught us it does.

In fact, there is nothing in that post which contradicts the teaching of a true Master. From the first contact I had with the Pir, the focus has been on looking within for answers.

Yes, we ask questions, but it is the QUESTIONING that teaches us more than the answers we receive from the Pir. His answers generally coax from us more questions, more insights that come from deep within us.

If we don't question ourselves, how can we calm our doubts? If we don't examine what is inside of us, how can we ever correct those parts that are in error due to our conditioning in this confused, ego-driven, patriarchal society?

As to what we have been taught by the Pir, it amounts to this:

Engage, observe, question and adjust.

As my dear friend Meili has said, time and again: "It is no more complicated than that."

Engage life and the people around you, observe your actions and the subsequent reactions, question the causes of your actions and the resultant reactions, adjust your approach when in error, remember your approach when successful. Very logical. (Which my Libran mind has appreciated very much.)

It is the third step, questioning, that requires the participation of a Master (of ANY Established Tradition.) A Master is one who has walked the Path before and can shed light when we begin to wander back into the realm of the confused, where we all begin this journey.

During this trip, we will make mistakes. We can ignore them at our peril and be doomed to repeat them, or we can observe them, question what caused them to be made and adjust our approach to the various situations in which they occur. In this way we can grow as human beings.

As most of you are painfully aware, I have made mistakes. I will continue to make them. This is a learning process, and no magical method, insight or book alone is going to get me there.

It is going to take practice, and practice means progress made with errors along the way. If I will not ATTEMPT to ride the bicycle of my nafs(ego, desire, conditioning) and learn to control them, if I will not mount and ride for fear of falling down, then how will I ever learn to ride?

As it is, a great deal has been learned and I have evolved as a human being in ways that I am only beginning to fathom.

The Work will continue at www.darvishes.com as we read the teaching stories, exploring our own interpretations of those stories, as we ask questions to learn what it is that we would truly like to know. All in an environment where our thoughts can be expressed without fear of criticism, because on this journey, it isn't important to express who is right or wrong, but what is on the inside of us.

It is in this way that we will expose our inner selves, our gurus to the light of day by clearing away the conditioning which stands between us, and our true selves.

The questions we ask will tell us much more about ourselves than the answers ever will.

Finally, for those who claim that a true Master would never introduce himself as magidivision has done, I would say this:

Look at the attention which has been drawn to his words. Look at how many more people have been exposed to this teaching as a result of the approach he used.

You say a true Master would not post in that manner. How can you be so sure? How can ANY of us, except of course, for a true Master?

Peace to you all from the depths of my heart.

Love,

posted November 07, 2004 02:03 PM              

You're not going to convince anyone he hasn't already convinced.

Masters, Gurus, and Avatars will present themselves to each of us as their lessons are ready to be perceived.

I do not believe in blind faith. I don't trust anyone who wants me to follow them blindly. I feel blind faith is dangerous, and mentally and spiritually unhealthy.

There is nothing you can do to further prove to me his worthiness of my attention. He has proved to me all I need to see. I believe he's a fraud, just looking for some followers.

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

I do not have to believe in your Master... nor do I ever have to (or intend on) calling him Master. He is no Master. And... guess what, daf, I'm NOT going to burn for eternity in hellfire for not following him, either...

This whole thing is just ridiculous and sickening, really. I'm kinda glad you posted this, so I could really say what I have to say about your Fraud.

How dare you come in here and try to shove your beliefs down anyone else's throat. Who the hell are you to say what anyone should or should not believe?! Linda Land is not the place you come to be converted into any religion, or religious mind set.

I am of the opinion that most religion is quite evil. The bigger it gets, the more corrupt it becomes. "Follow me... and load my pockets."

This little soap box speech has only convinced me further that you are somehow behind this magidivision character. Either you ARE him or are in cahoots with him. Either way, something smells very fishy.

I would not have to argue this point with you if you would kindly remove your religious mumbo-jumbo from the depths of my throat. I do not take kindly to ANYONE pushing their beliefs on me. You and magidivsion have proven nothing as for as his validity.

Blind faith is very dangerous, my friend.

posted November 07, 2004 02:44 PM              

Your frustration pains me. It would be an easy thing to read your post and assume that your anger is directed at me. Having read carefully both your post, and my own, it seems apparent that your beef is not with me, but with religion in general.

One very real indicator of this is the frequent mention of religion in your post, when there is none in mine other than the words Pir and Sufi at the beginning.

As for my being "behind" magidivision, I'm certainly flattered by the suggestion, but I'm currently light-years behind the man in learning, wisdom and understanding. Hopefully one day I will have the capacity of living up to your estimation of my abilities. I am no Teacher of any but myself.

Again, it pains me that your past has so torturously followed you into the present. Look carefully, and look again for the mention of religion L.S., it isn't there.

It never was, the words you have written here came not from me or what I wrote, but from you.

Would that we could sweep away our conditioning in a moment. You would be able to read what was written here and realize that noone has targeted you or anyone else to have anything shoved down their throats.

What is written here, are simply the words of two people expressing themselves, from the heart. And why do we DARE to express ourselves here?

Because Randall has given us a forum in which we may do so. In which we DARE to speak our hearts and minds.

I believe there is a saying that goes something like, "Dare to dream."

Let us also dream to dare, lest we be silenced by those who cannot fathom how we COULD dare to dream.

This is written with an open heart and fond thoughts of the you beyond your words.

Love,

posted November 07, 2004 03:11 PM              

You said: "I am no Teacher of any but myself." Which totally hits the nail on the head. The same is true for all of us, including magidivision. This is the point I have been trying in vain to hit home since this started. Magidivision is not my teacher, guru, or anything. I am.

My words, daf, came not only from the above post, but the nonsense that's going on in Universal Codes. Religion has come hugely into play in the GURU string. Inadvertently, or advertantly... it's there. Isn't following Sufi considered a religion? Honestly, if I had time, I would go back and c/p proof for you. But, I suspect you know it's there.

No one is saying you shouldn't be able to express yourself. The problem is, when someone comes in and expresses themselves in any way that disagrees with magidivision, that person becomes a bully.

Yes, daf, I have issues with religion... and with good reason and personal experience. Through my own journey, I have found that religion only adds to humanities troubles, rather than lessening them.

My (or anyone else's) belief in magidivison is not necessary. Why do you feel the need to convert us?

You are right in one respect, daf. I don't have beef with you. I don't have beef with anyone here. I do, on the other hand, have beef with the idea that because I don't believe what you believe that I am somehow blind, or unenlightened. It's just ridiculous.

Being that the two of us don't really know each other, I do hope that in the future we will be able do discuss things with civility. I do not think badly of you for believing something I think is total BS. We have free will. We each get to choose our path. Yours, clearly, is quite different than mine.

Danielle

P.S.

posted November 07, 2004 04:27 PM              

I am not a Sufi, nor will I become one. I am happy with my belief system. Therefore, the approach I am espousing has nothing to do with religion. Again, since your problem is with religion and not with me, you have no beef with me. If I were recommending a self-help book called "Excuse me, You Life is Waiting" you wouldn't have a beef with me, so there is no reason for you to have a problem with me now. What I am recommending to those that want to listen is virtually the same thing, just with a longer history of success.

The Sufi approach, as opposed to any organized Sufi religious movement (I'm not sure there is one), is a logical approach to self-exploration.

As I said, and as you have agreed, we are our own teachers. This is what the Sufi approach shows us. It is not any more complicated than that.

It does not require a change in your current regimen of prayer or non-prayer, nor are you required to change your meditation practices if you meditate at all.

There is no priest to condemn you to hell if you decide that this isn't for you. (Particularly true since the notion of the existence of Heaven and Hell are entirely up to you.)

The Pir is not a god, or a man whose holiness entitles him to worship, nor is the word Master one of Master-Slave connotations, but one of respect given to one who is a master of his craft, which in this case happens to be the Sufi method.

The Sufi method, as I mentioned above, and will mention again is a logical one:

Engage life and the people around you.

Observe your actions and the subsequent reactions objectively.

Question the reasons behind your actions and the subsequent results of those actions. Good or bad results? Why good? Why bad?

Adjust your actions accordingly. If your actions produced bad results, figure out why, then avoid repeating those actions in the future. If your actions produced desirable results, then store the memory of those results away so that the action can be repeated under similar circumstances in the future.

Finally, if you and I have a difference of opinion and you express your end of it in a calm and reasonable manner, then noone could even suggest that you are a bully.

If however you approach with highly charged words like

"HOW DARE YOU" (as if a person doesn't have the right to express their opinion and are crossing some acceptable boundaries by doing so)

"SHOVED DOWN THEIR THROATS" (again as if some line has been crossed by the person politely expressing their opinion)

"RIDICULOUS AND SICKENING" (as if expressing their opinion has crossed some boundary of socially acceptable behavior)

"FRAUD" (as though holding an opinion to be true suddenly makes one a charlatan who is out to bilk others)

"NOT GOING TO BURN IN HELLFIRE" (as though someone had suggested that you would)

then of course you will appear as a bully, because you aren't just stating your opinion, you're attacking another's opinion and their character in a public forum because they disagree with you and choose to express that disagreement.

There is something called adab in the Sfui tradition, and although I'm not a Sufi myself, I believe that adab is a VERY important first step to communication between people of differing opinions.

Adab loosely translated means manners. It means I should POLITELY approach others rather than brutally spilling my guts just because I am capable of doing so.

I wish you all the best Librasparkle, and I know we will have other reasons to disagree with one another. What would be nice is if we can progress from yelling at one another, to speaking with one another.

Love,

posted November 07, 2004 04:47 PM              

quote:

---

It is the third step, questioning, that requires the participation of a Master (of ANY Established Tradition.) A Master is one who has walked the Path before and can shed light when we begin to wander back into the realm of the confused, where we all begin this journey.

---

Daf,

Not all of us WANT or NEED a "Master". I will get to my destination without one. In your mind, one must have a Master to learn from - so, you will continue to need one. You think you cannot grow without one. You will remain powerless, having given your power over to a "master". This to me is sad. I prefer to learn through life itself. I dont like making things more complicated than they are. Life is simple, we make it complicated. My religion is life and living it. I dont need rules and little stories to understand God or whomever. I see & feel God in everything, everyday.
I (and many others) dont feel the same way for this "Guru" as you do. This is okay, it really is. Just because we dont follow this man and his teachings as you do, doesnt mean we are somehow lost or missing the boat. People are so quick to latch onto things outside themselves. We'll all go about things in our own way. We dont need to be 'saved' by this man. You might - but I dont. I will make it without him and his teachings.
When it all comes down to it, we only have ourselves to answer to. We have to live with ourselves.

Spoken like a true triple earth sign, I guess.

"One man's religion is another man's belly laugh."
~Robert A. Heinlein

"Religious experiences which are as real as life to some may be incomprehensible to others."
~William O. Douglas

"When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow."
~Anais Nin

"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness."
~the Dalai Lama

posted November 07, 2004 05:15 PM              

It must be obvious from the state of things that this approach hasn't worked out as well for humankind as one might expect.

If that is your main complaint with my words, then I am a fortunate man indeed. Who wouldn't want to have come out on the other side of this discussion with only that minor point held against them?

I am certainly flattered that you seem to have found the rest of the post satisfactory. Thank you.

Love,

daf

posted November 07, 2004 07:27 PM              

And just what is my cause? Even more to the point, what is yours? If I see someone speaking of cults and Krishna's, calling something a religion that isn't one, should I stifle myself and allow their words to stand?

Is there any difference between my post here, and your responses to it other than the fact that I have yet to judge your position?

Is there any difference between speaking my heart about something that I have found to be helpful, and your speaking about something that you are afraid (or suspicious) of other than the fact that my words come from experience, and yours come from a belief?

This is not religion, because neither my religious views, nor any of our religious views have changed as a result of the time we have spent helping each other.

I still believe in God, don't subscribe to organized religion and find blind faith in a "leader" repugnant.

This "self-help" approach has done nothing to change our religion, and therefore it should not be confused with religion. It simply isn't about religion.

Why are we not allowed to tell people about this? Why can people talk about how to astral travel, read palms, speak of Osho, Thoth, Alistair Crowley, spells for health, and potions for love, but we can't talk about a simple method for learning about one's self?

Why can't we speak about this OTHER method for those that would like to improve their ability to know their S-elf without being:

1. Berated
2. Look down upon
3. Made fun of
4. Criticized
5. Belittled
6. Called cultists
7. Called frauds and charlatans

How can politely speaking one's mind cause so much hate and venom to appear out of thin air here among the loving, open-hearted members of Lindaland?

If you believe in free expression then how does my cause differ from yours Randall?

Sufism isn't my cause, I am not a Sufi. Sufism is simply a handy method that some of us wished to share with the rest of you, because we thought it might be helpful for some, disregarded by others. Unfortunately, it wasn't disregarded, it was targeted.

Peace,

posted November 07, 2004 09:03 PM              

I've only tried to share with those that want to read and have nothing but respect for the decision of those that choose not to.

My response posts have been due to the fact that I am taken aback by how severely some have chosen to react to something so simple, and so helpful.

Still, I have tried to maintain proper courtesy at all times, regardless of whether it was reciprocated.

Any of you could have just as easily ignored this post. Noone would have been hurt. Noone could have been.

Here is an example of what we have been talking about. It is a Sufi rule for living and interacting with others called:

Yad Dashtan

It is the rules we are interested in, not the religion, as I have stated time and again.

Hopefully this will help to clear things up.

Love,

posted November 08, 2004 11:54 AM            

Daf, yes, you have cleared things up quite nicely. It is clear that you are here to recruit traffic to your Master's site. A posting or two of a link is a recommendation; repeated postings is SPAM.