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Author Topic:   Liberal Atheists going too far...way too far
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 01, 2004 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems that not only has God been dispossessed from America's classrooms and institutions but the Declaration of Independence and other documents dating from the founding of the United States have been too.

Is it any wonder the far ultra liberal leftists are despised for their attempts to overturn every American institution?

The definition of liberal has been liberally thrown around on this forum. You will not find an elected or appointed official in the Democrat party who even loosely fits that definition.

We are in the opening stages of a revolt from so called liberal ideas and leftist ideals, with which no compromise is possible. Look for these so called liberals to come under an unrelenting political attack when the revolution moves to the next stage at the city, county and state levels, including school superintendents and school board members who are attempting to shape the political thinking of their students instead of educating them.

Cal Thomas
An opportunity for Dems in red states http://www.NewsAndOpinion.comhttp://
www.NewsAndOpinion.com

If Democrats want to get back in the "values" game and change the perception of their party as being full of secularists intent on removing any reference to G-d from culture and even the history of America, they can start in the government schools. That's where reverent or favorable mentions of G-d are often prohibited, but using His name as a curse word is protected by the same First Amendment that supposedly prohibits the favorable mention of His name.

Democrats have an ideal case that they could make their own in the San Francisco suburb of Cupertino, where a fifth-grade public school teacher has filed a discrimination lawsuit against his school. The teacher, Steven Williams, says he has been prohibited by the school principal, Patricia Vidmar, from teaching the Declaration of Independence and other founding documents of the United States because they often refer to G-d .


It's one thing to ban contemporary attempts to use the schools to proselytize. It is quite another to censor history. It is a fact beyond dispute that the Founders often referred to G-d or "Divine Providence" or "the Almighty" in their public lives. Ignoring or censoring such facts presents a false history of our nation and denies students their right to know the truth.


According to Williams' lawsuit, among the other materials rejected by the principal were George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."

Democrats could make political hay for their party and do a good deed for public school students by opposing the extension of political correctness to history books and historical documents.

Attempts to expunge references to G-d , past or present, are not limited to one California school. In Maryland, there is a dispute concerning what may and may not be properly taught in that state's public schools.


The Washington Times carried a Capital News Service (CNS) story Nov. 23 that reported that when teachers instruct about the 17th-century origins of Thanksgiving, they can only say the Pilgrims thanked the Indians and cannot say they also thanked G-d for their safe journey and for the bounty set before them.


The story quoted Charles Ridgell, the director of curriculum and instruction for St. Mary's County Public Schools (they had better change the county's name to something other than "St. Mary's" to be consistent): "We teach about Thanksgiving from a purely historical perspective, not from a religious perspective." It is impossible to accurately teach about Thanksgiving without including the "religious perspective." The Pilgrims believed they were directed by G-d to make their journey to America and owed thanks to Him for a safe trip and good crops.


Maryland Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr., a Republican, disputes the CNS report. He says the state does not bar teachers from addressing the religious aspects of Thanksgiving. But school administrators from several Maryland counties said that they don't include religious materials in their curriculums. So while the state may not ban religious historical references, local officials apparently are doing so on their own authority.


This is a ready-made issue for Democrats to jump on and save the history of our country. While they're at it, they might also want to look at efforts by certain Islamists to infiltrate public schools with teachings about their religion.

As Daniel Pipes detailed in the Nov. 24 issue of Front PageMagazine, the 15th tip in a list of "18 tips for Imams and Community Leaders" from the Islamic Web site www.SoundVision.com is "Establish a parents' committee to monitor public schools." The committee, Pipes writes, is to "arrange for Muslims to deliver talks about Islam and Muslims" in the schools.


Pipes summarizes other suggestions from www.DawaNet.com, including: "Lobby to include Islamic dates on the school calendar;" "Add books and magazines about Islam . . . to the school library;" and "Incorporate Islam into class projects. 'For example, if students are required to give a speech in class and they can choose any topic, an Islamic subject should be selected. Similar opportunities can be created in history, social science, writing and other classes.'"

So, while the history and faith of our own country is being erased and a spiritual vacuum created, Islamists are rushing to fill that vacuum with the history and faith of another country.

Will Democrats ride to the rescue?
http://www.newsmax.com/r/?http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/thomas1.asp

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miss_apples
unregistered
posted December 01, 2004 11:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess some people just dont have anything better to do than to get offended by everything. They should find a better hobby.

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LibraSparkle
unregistered
posted December 01, 2004 04:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The definition of liberal has been liberally thrown around on this forum. You will not find an elected or appointed official in the Democrat party who even loosely fits that definition.

I can totally agree with that.

While I wish that people would keep their religious ideals to themselves, especially where my kids are conserned... C'mon now! How retarded is that? These are historical documents. I am firmly against anyone suggesting to my children HOW to believe in God(dess), that is not what this teacher is trying to do. Keeping prayer and God-talk out of school isn't to keep the children from learning about their country, it is to protect them from Christian types trying to force their religion onto our kids.

What a bunch of BS

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LibraSparkle
unregistered
posted December 01, 2004 04:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW, Jwhop... I wanted to pat you on the back for saying "Is it any wonder the far ultra liberal leftists are despised ..." Thanks for not pinning us all into that hole

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 02, 2004 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see no role for schools to take for or against religion or religious principles. That's a parental prerogative.

Forbidding the introduction of the Declaration of Independence in US History classes is asinine.

We're a nation of 300 million people. Everything under the sun offends someone...or so they say after finding out that being offended has gotten public policy amended for some groups.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 02, 2004 03:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's not forget that every revolution has a counter revolution. Theres is a strong uprising currently in the christian right, and they are infiltrating the political system. The democratic party is basically in pieces at this point, as it doesn't have the strong voter base that the republican party has conveniently 'morphed' its values to align with over the past 20 or so years. Don't worry though, people who believe in equality, fairness, choice, charity, and welfare, (pussy democrats), can only take some much of a beating before there is a counterrevolution.

I love how "liberal" is slowly becoming a dirty word. A word that literally means "free." Liberal means helping those who need it, having freedom of expresion, freedom of choice. These are principles that are being taken away by the religious right; people who hope to take away peoples personal rights and privacy.

Lets not forget those who are most concerned about terrorism are those who live in areas most removed from terrorist attacks), and also that most of the tax for welfare comes from the blue states and goes to the red states. And what ever happened to the good ol' republican party? What ever happened to fiscal responsibility?

This country is foregetting the principles upon which it was founded, both in the red and blue states. The division of this country is unhealthy, and can't result in anything good. Instead of seeking to push their polices more to the extreme right (this is ACTUAL radicalism, not the centrism of the democrats), i hope that the Bush admin. tries to center their policies towards fairness, unity, defensive protection, and environmental/scientific responsibility. We can't reverse time and go back to living in the dark ages! The reason science is taught in school and not religion, is beacuse science is reproducable, valid, evidence. Religion is fantastic, but it cannot be universally reproduced/understood. I'm all for a religious education, but no in our public schools, they are a place for universal truths. This country will feel the karma of its actions, its only a matter of time.

~BR

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 04, 2004 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who said anything about teaching religion in the school systems.....besides you BR?

So BR, you think those who profess religious beliefs are infiltrating the political system? As though they have no right to express their opinions about government policy?

Must be a plot to overthrow the Republic and institute a theocracy in America.

Are you holding yourself out to be one of those tolerant, open minded individuals which was the hallmark of liberals of bygone years?

Can you name one Representative or Senator now serving in Congress who fits the dictionary definition of liberal....aside from Joe Lieberman?

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 04, 2004 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boy Jwhop you sure took a LONG time to respond, you musta been scratching your ape-like head for a while to comprehend the infinite wisdom of my post
=

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 05, 2004 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Boy Jwhop you sure took a LONG time to respond, you musta been scratching your ape-like head for a while to comprehend the infinite wisdom of my post


BR, your childish personal attacks may get you high fives on the playground where you hang out with your air-head friends, but here, it just marks you as a juvenile who needs to grow up.

As for the wisdom you mentioned, you're keeping that pretty well hidden.

Nor did it escape my notice you failed to answer my question(s). Nothing new in that though. It's the standard leftist tactic to ignore questions they can't answer and either attempt to change the subject or resort to personal attacks.

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miss_apples
unregistered
posted December 05, 2004 01:30 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I see this thread is about people wanting to ban the teaching of the constitution simply because it mentions "God" a few times. This post did not deal with the entire religion in school issue. BR, not once did I see anyone promoting teaching religion in schools. Did you even read the first post?

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Motherkonfessor
unregistered
posted December 05, 2004 02:42 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The entire point of this article is negated by the last line..

All that bullsh$$ that the "Islamicist" faith is being presented, nay! PUSHED!! by those terrorist lovin' snooty Democrats.

This is why newsmax is crap news, blatant propaganda.

Gimme a break, jwhop. If this was an article that just presented the facts, instead of playing the outrageous line, I would have thought it was crap too, to take out those pieces of history.

Thats why I doubt this exists anywhere but on newsmax.

Spare me the sanctimonius yowls of "Those heathen Democrats!! those scum!"

The problem is, no one bothers to teach critical thinking in society.

No one understands that the personal side of God, as opposed to the historical context, are 2 DIFFERENT THINGS.

This is how Scalia gets off saying that our country is founded on GOD. it is NOT.

How DIFFICULT is to understand the statement "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE"??

seems pretty clear.

"Religious tolerance" would appear to also be a simple concept. Not so!!

Back to the post... if we were a society of critical thinkers, this "news event" would be a moot point. These documents could be studied with a historical perspective, and we wouldnt be debating, because the separation would be OBVIOUS......

and thats the point of "separation of church and state."


MK

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quiksilver
unregistered
posted December 06, 2004 10:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There will never be true separation of church and state because what we call "church" is just a cover for a set of ideas and values that people will embrace under any given name. The name of a religion or the religion itself is not important. It is the moral code that the philosophy(ies) represent. And these will always endure. Ultimately it is ideas and beliefs that people fight and die for, not religion. Religion is just a convenient "catch all" term. But if religion went away tomorrow, our problems would still remain because there will still be people in the world willing to fight for their way of thinking and living, just the way we fought for Democracy for the U.S. back when this nation was founded. I am not arguing with anyone here but merely pointing out that separation of church and state is ultimately not the answer to the problem. It's a solution symptomtic of the real underlying problem in my opinion, which is that people as a whole still have not found a way to coexist in this world sans violence and brute force.

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