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Author
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Topic: What one person can do
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maklhouf
unregistered
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posted January 28, 2005 06:03 AM
 
On a day when London learned we were all to be confined to quarters, so as not to upset a visiting president with our anti-war demos, a granny climbed the gatepost of Buckingham Palace and refused to come down. She was white, female and middle-class so they didn't shoot her.
She didn't stop the war, but she got the kind of nationwide publicity most political parties and lobby groups would die for.IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted January 28, 2005 08:52 AM
"she was white, female and middle-class so they didn't shoot her."
Were you really "confined to quarters"? How so?
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maklhouf
unregistered
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posted January 29, 2005 05:37 AM
I'm not inclined to go back over the war in iraq, since that is not the subject of this thread. However, if you want to research it, I suggest you read a British newspaper that is not owned by that patriotic US citizen, Rupert Murdoch. IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted January 29, 2005 09:07 AM
I've no inclination to "go over" the war in Iraq with you, maklhouf. I simply asked how exactly you were "confined to quarters". Not being British, I am admittedly not in the habit of reading your newspapers. You guys are still smarting over the Times, huh?  Well, I can't say I blame you. On the other hand, if the patriotic British people had the kahunas to stop buying the filthy little thing ... IP: Logged |
Atlantic Myst
unregistered
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posted February 01, 2005 07:01 PM
WELL SAID MAKHLOUF!
------------------
~*~ Cusp: Gemini/Cancer, Cancer rising, Taurus moon ~*~
Let's go...
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maklhouf
unregistered
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posted February 02, 2005 12:29 PM
A M
"lets go" that's a way of getting an image as your signature?
I'd really like if anyone could post here an example of one person or a few succeeding against the odds. People who have had a US education seem to think you can't acheive anything unless yu have democratic ballot first, and then they get depressed when the process fails them.
Don't be shocked by the horrible metaphor, but "there's more than one way to swing a cat".IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted February 02, 2005 12:46 PM
People who have had a US education seem to think you can't acheive anything unless yu have democratic ballot first, and then they get depressed when the process fails them.Why do you say that? If anything, it seems to me that we're taught more about iconoclastic, individual leaders than anything/one else.
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maklhouf
unregistered
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posted February 02, 2005 12:58 PM
There seems to be more beleif in the democratic process in your system. That's the Freedom you are exporting everywhere, right? We are more cynical about such things in Europe. We don't have to swear allegiance to something democratic every morning at 8.45 or whenever. And when it fails you, what do you do?IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted February 02, 2005 01:22 PM
You may be overgeneralizing "you" a bit there - the exportation of democracy is nowadays more a neoconservative thing than not (oddly enough, it kinda reminds me of the fervor shown by some communists to spread their system). The Pledge of Allegiance (the "something democratic every morning") started off as just this:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
And now's the following:
I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all. (just so you know).
We don't have to - at least in public schools - actually say the pledge. By middle school, I'd say that most kids sit through it; to me, though, it's no real chuff that it's recited...I mean, after all, they are government-funded institutions. We are probably more optimistic about the promises of freedom, democracy, etc. than most European nations (and have been for some time; just read what was said about "decaying and decadent Europe" by some American thinkers back into the 19th and even 18th centuries), if for no other reason than that we have to be.
We're exponentially more diverse than most of Europe - even if you only look at it from the lens of c. 1950 or so when the vast majority of our population was European in descent...imagine all of Europe being completely tossed together and made to get along.
As we have no coherent ethnic nation, we've had to, by necessity, be a nation of ideals. When it fails us we do something about it - we get out and have a revolution of ideas and action. We have faith in elections if for no other reason than that they've worked before. This is a really heartbreaking example (though it illustrates the point) - my ex-Aunt, a rather senior official in the EPA, dreads election cycles that favor the Republicans...her budget's consistently deeply slashed when they're in office. Barring (relatively) peaceful means - if the situation's just gotten too stagnant, mired in corruption, and oligarchical for them to make a dent - there's always the extreme interpretation of Mr. Jefferson's suggestion. But we do try to not just stew about it. Would write more.
Kiddo's awake from her nap. IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 02, 2005 01:57 PM
Hmmmm proxi, these are the EPA Operating Budgets for the Bush years...so far  EPA Operating Budgets
2002........7.30 Billion
2003........7.70 Billion
2004........7.63 Billion
2005........7.75 Billion Clinton 2001 EPA Operating Budget
7.30...Billion
http://www.epa.gov/ocfo/budget/budget.htm IP: Logged |
Atlantic Myst
unregistered
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posted February 02, 2005 11:12 PM
------------------
~*~ Cusp: Gemini/Cancer, Cancer rising, Taurus moon ~*~
Let's go...
IP: Logged |
Atlantic Myst
unregistered
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posted February 02, 2005 11:14 PM
Mak u seem like those snotty Europeans I have heard so much about. I'm not even surprised now that you are from london. They are known to be snotty.Well That's what I am no matter what. I would never support murderous Govt. Democrats have the same views. That's why I go there way. Sad how now a days you get stepped on for wanting world peace Sheesh ------------------
~*~ Cusp: Gemini/Cancer, Cancer rising, Taurus moon ~*~
Let's go...
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maklhouf
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 06:42 AM
Thanks for telling me about the pledge Proxieme. As to the rest: I'm aware of what the many can do. I started this thread for anyone who is interested in what the few can do.IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 07:23 PM
Well, of course everyone wants world peace. It's how some would go about getting it that causes problems and creates disagreements. Speaking of London ... Atlantic Myst, please meet Mr Chamberlain. I bet maklhouf and his fellow Londoners are real proud of him. One of my all-time faves ... "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead
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Atlantic Myst
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 07:38 PM
Who the f*ck is mr chamberlin?------------------
~*~ Cusp: Gemini/Cancer, Cancer rising, Taurus moon ~*~
Let's go...
IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 07:43 PM
Look it up.  All peace-niks should be well-versed in all matters concerning Neville. (for defensive reasons)IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 08:53 PM
maklhouf - I was primarily addressing your assertion that Americans're more idealistic than ya'll across the Pond.I'd bring up individual names - Mohandas Ghandi, MLK, Thoreau, Nietzsche and Hitler for that matter if you just want to talk about people with sway...Beethovan if you want to talk about getting over the odds - but upon further consideration it seems that everyone that I could think of had the support and aide of at least a few others, usually multitude. A little bit O/T - Your first example reminded me of the Rosenstrasse incident during WWII (the link goes to a short explanation). I know a fair amount about World War II and the Nazis in general - I have an unhealthy guilt complex about it for someone who's 24  - but I had never heard about until assigned A Force More Powerful: A Century of Nonviolent Conflict for one of my Uni classes. It's an excellent book filled with case studies of people using Nonviolent methods to overcome violence and/or attain their rights. It's not necessarily filled with individual stories, though...maybe you could look at 'em as a bunch of individuals doing their own thing together  On that, you may also find Approaches to Peace: A Reader in Peace Studies by David P. Barash worthwhile. It's a short collection of thoughts on war, peace (or different kinds and levels of peace), and all in between. It introduced me to Thomas Merton, and, though textbooky, is one of my most worn books.
It even has some poems in the back, including one that I've kept coming back to since early highschool: Do not weep, maiden, for war is kind.
Because your lover threw wild hands toward the sky
And the affrighted steed ran on alone,
Do not weep.
War is kind. Hoarse, booming drums of the regiment,
Little souls who thirst for fight,
These men were born to drill and die.
The unexplained glory flies above them,
Great is the battle-god, great, and his kingdom --
A field where a thousand corpses lie. Do not weep, babe, for war is kind.
Because your father tumbled in the yellow trenches,
Raged at his breast, gulped and died,
Do not weep.
War is kind. Swift blazing flag of the regiment,
Eagle with crest of red and gold,
These men were born to drill and die.
Point for them the virtue of slaughter,
Make plain to them the excellence of killing
And a field where a thousand corpses lie. Mother whose heart hung humble as a button
On the bright splendid shroud of your son,
Do not weep.
War is kind. - Stephen Crane It's amazing to me when I grab onto a quote or poem only to later see it in context or nestled in another text that I've enjoyed.
"The more we learn, the more we are - or ought to be - dumbfounded," immediately caught my attention, only to be found later about half way through Late Night Thoughts on Listening to Mahler's Ninth Symphony by Lewis Thomas. Does that ever happen to you? Now, when I personally and independently *think* something only to see that someone else had the *unmitigated gall* to write it *scores or hundereds of years before me*...that just p*sses me off.
Damn Emerson and Thoreau.
And dumb Emily Dickenson.
*grumbles* Wow. Excuse my long-windedness.
The kiddo's down for the night, my husband's on a funeral detail, and I've drifted back into college-inia. Atlantic Mist - You may or may not be interested, but when looking at my books for mak, I saw one that brought you to mind: The Future of Us All: Race and Neighborhood Politics in New York City
It's kind of a case study of the Elmhurst-Corona neighborhood of Queens.
Take it or leave it, as you will. IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 09:11 PM
Prox, you're only 24? The Lewis Thomas is about elbows length down on my arm long list of books-I-really-must-read. How was it? Mahler makes me think rather than feel -which I always found odd(and admittedly a little disorienting). IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 10:25 PM
I'll be 25 March 12th A quarter century year old... *whistles* Lower insurance premiums, here I come. But, seriously, I've been in my 30s for about 20 years now. I wish I were better versed in classical music - as it is, I can't really say what Mahler does for me.
I've mostly stuck with Beethoven - he's passionate, and usually seems to fall somewhere between those who're too cerebral (Mozart) and too...too (like Rachmaninov). I guess I could always download some...maybe there's some nice public domain stuff out there so I won't have to be a pirate.
Yar. I haven't read _Late Night Thoughts_ in such a long time - '99 or '00 was my last actual read through.
It really struck a chord with me then, though, and I took it as a minor sign that it was published in 1980 (my birth year).
Odd - subsequent re-readings haven't hit me quite the same, but I've always kinda been that way. Each revelation has its season. Do certain times in your life seem to have "themes"?
I started noticing that in my own a while back. A few months of Freedom, a few months of Choice, a few of Devotion, then Struggle - events not necessarily evoking such reactions or actions (though they may), perhaps just the line of thought interweaving itself. IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted February 03, 2005 10:36 PM
http://www.classicalarchives.com/ Five Free File Downloads a Day. I can't speak to the quality of the performances themselves, but it's definitely a start. IP: Logged |
maklhouf
unregistered
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posted February 04, 2005 06:17 AM
Prox, I find much to agree with what you say, but I'm still looking for the contemporary, little guy (or gal) who screwed that system that was trying to screw them.
I am NOT going to be diverted into irrelevant byways, but appropos of something that was hinted at in the beginning of this thread: whenever we have a visitor to the UK from the Land of the Free, our freedom is curtailed. Today Leeeeeeeezzzzzzaaa Rice is visiting us (did they tell us she was coming?) and we are under high surveillance.IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted February 04, 2005 09:23 AM
(...)but I'm still looking for the contemporary, little guy (or gal) who screwed that system that was trying to screw them.I think that you're going to have to put the call our for someone else to help you in that regard - perhaps a slightly embittered Scorpio or two.
I guess that I just don't view the world in those terms. *shrugs* IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted February 04, 2005 11:21 PM
quote:
But, seriously, I've been in my 30s for about 20 years now.
I believe it! In total agreement about Ludwig  Mahler is an interesting listen. I can not tell a lie - I can only take him in small doses. He doesn't seem to bypass the circuitry before connecting with the soul. Usually, I would consider this a fault but for some reason I feel the need to cut the little guy some slack. I only felt the need to give him that slack after reading a little book called Bid Time Return, which uses his music as a minor plot device. A classic it isn't but I'm a sucker for anything of the time travel genre (and a Shakespeare quote for the title is always a bonus)
quote:
Do certain times in your life seem to have "themes"?
I started noticing that in my own a while back. A few months of Freedom, a few months of Choice, a few of Devotion, then Struggle - events not necessarily evoking such reactions or actions (though they may), perhaps just the line of thought interweaving itself.
yes.yes.yes. speaking of Wills ... there is a tide in the affairs of men ....
IP: Logged |
maklhouf
unregistered
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posted February 05, 2005 05:29 AM
(Rice has left us now, Praise the Lord. We're back to normally intrusive surveillance.)
Here's an example of what I'll call Reverse Developement: hats off to the Oldies again.
A Kentish couple in their eighties, the Colemans, bought up the land around their home in an auction, to prevent it being built on. They have turned down offers of millions of pounds from developers who want to turn the feilds into a concrete jungle.
I beleive the writer Beatrix Potter used a similar method to preserve the countryside around her home.
The beauty of this method is it can be done by disparate individuals all over the place who don't even know one another. Often you don't have to buy much land to make developement unfeasible, just a crucial bit.IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
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posted February 05, 2005 08:38 AM
*claps loudly for the Colemans*Do they have a will? To whom have they left their property? Do the inheritors intend to do the same? I think it is a lovely gesture, I truly do, but will it last? IP: Logged | |
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