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Author Topic:   What are your views?
Mystic Dreamz
unregistered
posted February 09, 2005 04:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Updated: 02:34 PM EST
Embattled Professor Stands by 9/11 Comments
He Compared Terror Victims to Infamous Nazi
By ERIN GARTNER, AP




AP


Prof. Ward Churchill says he owes "no one an apology."

Watch Broadband Video:
Churchill Defends 9/11 Views

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BOULDER, Colo. (Feb. 9) - An embattled University of Colorado professor who likened Sept. 11 victims to Nazis got a standing ovation when he told a campus audience of more than 1,000 people that ''I'm not backing up an inch.''

Ward Churchill, who had filed a lawsuit after the state-funded university threatened to cancel his address, was interrupted several times by thunderous applause.

Churchill has resigned as chairman of the university's ethnic studies department. Gov. Bill Owens has called for Churchill to be fired, and the university's Board of Regents is investigating whether the tenured professor can be removed.

''I don't answer to Bill Owens. I do not answer to the Board of Regents in the way they think I do. The regents should do their job and let me do mine,'' Churchill said to thunderous clapping. ''I'm not backing up an inch. I owe no one an apology.''

In an essay, Churchill wrote that workers in the World Trade Center were the equivalent of ''little Eichmanns,'' a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who ensured the smooth running of the Nazi system. Churchill also spoke of the ''gallant sacrifices'' of the ''combat teams'' that struck America.

The ethnic studies professor said Tuesday his essay was referring to ''technocrats'' who participate in what he calls repressive American policies around the world.

A longtime American Indian Movement activist, he said he is also culpable because his efforts to change the system haven't succeeded. ''I could do more. I'm complicit. I'm not innocent,'' he said.

The Boulder Faculty Assembly, which represents professors at the Boulder campus, has said Churchill's comments were ''controversial, offensive and odious'' but supports his right to say them based on the principle of academic freedom.

During his 35-minute speech, Churchill said the essay was not referring to children, firefighters, janitors or people passing by the World Trade Center who were killed during the attacks.

The essay and follow-up book attracted little attention until Churchill was invited to speak last month at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y., which later canceled his talk out of security concerns.

University of Colorado officials cited those same concerns but backed off after Churchill filed a lawsuit earlier Tuesday asking a judge to force the school to let him speak.

The crowd Tuesday night was loud and orderly as Churchill spoke: ''I do not work for the taxpayers of the state of Colorado. I do not work for Bill Owens. I work for you,'' he said.

About two dozen police officers were scattered inside and around the ballroom where the speech was given. Most of those attending supported Churchill.

''I've read some of Ward's work,'' said 26-year-old Vinita Laroia, an environmental studies major. ''I think what he has to say is true and interesting. I wanted to hear his actual voice say what he's thinking.''

The ACLU issued a statement defending Churchill's right to speak out and called on regents, legislators and the governor ''to stop threatening Mr. Churchill's job because of the content of his opinions.''

David Horowitz, a champion of conservative causes who has long accused American universities of overstocking their faculties with leftists, has said firing Churchill would violate his First Amendment rights and set a bad precedent.

He called instead for an inquiry into the university's hiring and promotion procedures to see how Churchill managed to rise to the chairmanship of the school's ethnic studies department.


02-09-05 1022EST

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

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Gemini ;)

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TINK
unregistered
posted February 09, 2005 07:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's been an awfully long time since I was in school. Ethnic studies? What the ..?

Could someone enlighten me, please?

*sigh* Apparently, I'm getting old.

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted February 09, 2005 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read today that this guy doesn't even has the qualifications to be a tenured professor - he's got a bachelor's and a master's, but no doctorate. CU appointed him because he claimed to be native American and they wanted to have "ethnic diversity" in their tenured faculty. And then, to top it off, his claims regarding his ethnicity are now in dispute. What a riot.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 09, 2005 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are well informed Johnny. It is my understanding that Mr. Churchill has been denounced by at least one tribe spokesman as having lied, i.e., not having Indian ancestry.

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted February 09, 2005 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When you think about it, that's really pretty funny. Crazy wacko.

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delerious
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 12:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Certainly did get alot of attention though, maybe really what he was after?!!!

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted February 10, 2005 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You think? Surely there's a better way to go about it..

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Mystic Dreamz
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 01:23 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well all I know is that we definitely deserve an explanation because i'm pretty sure everyone here knows the supposed hijackers are alive. unless the media here didnt report it.

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
QUICK!!!


How many Mysts does it take to change a light bulb?

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted February 10, 2005 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am enveloped in a cloud of confusion.

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delerious
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 02:30 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just one! they only have to stand there and the world revolves around them!!!!

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted February 10, 2005 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is no longer any despute over his ancestry. He had genetic testing done to prove his claim.
Anyways, I think it's disgusting that American Indians are the only ethinic group that has to prove their lineage like dogs.

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Mystic Dreamz
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 11:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm


Here you go in case you are still confused Johny. Wow you see that is why I cannot trust my own media.

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Mystic Dreamz
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 11:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know it's scary my sister studied sociology in college and her teacher said that the government are the biggest criminals.

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted February 10, 2005 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well that's weird - those guys must be darn near unkillable!

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To my knowledge there are very few genetic markers indicating whether one is of American Decent or not.

I attended a genetics lecture on this very subject. Many tribes have become so diverse (as it was the norm to take women and children from enemy tribes and absorb them into ones own tribe- thus causing the blending of genes). My own ancestors, the Apache, made it a practice to do this and as such is the most genetically diverse tribe of all.

The lecturer concluded that it was almost impossible to trace the lineage to a direct tribe, but you can find various traits.

In this mans situation we don't know if he has one genetic sequence that shows up say..in the Cherokee tribe, but is also common in other populations. In forensic you cannot even get a definite determination of race based on a profile, but you can get a possible indication due to a predominance of various markers- yet it still does not conclude race.

In the early days, after the Vietnam war, the Cherokee nation (of which my mother's side does desend from and my father decends from the Apache tribe) they accepted ANYONE into their tribe. It was there way to get back at the government (there was a program that allowed a person to be declared American Indian if the tribal counsel approved it) as a result people of all nationalities, most of which were angry war protestors or Vietnam vets against the war, became a part of the Cherokee nation- but they are NOT Cherokee by blood.

It is imperative to prove one is of American Indian decent because there are so few records and yet when one is declared they receive numerous benefits and entitlements. This is done NOT to treat people as DOGS but to protect those American Indians that have real blood lines.

One does NOT need to take a blood test, but if you do not have the birth records (such as in my case on my fathers mother's side) then you must go before the tribal counsel (this is also true with the Cherokee nation) and submit your proof. Then you will either be accepted or not.

But, there is another problem, which I think many non-full bloods, especially those that are not privy to the American Indian lifestyle and our own internal battles. The Full-bloods, those who grew up on the rez are not only disgusted with half-breeds (myself included) they discriminate against us. We are not considered pure- and if, God- forbid, we marry out of the race or someone that is not at least a quarter, then we are accused of trying to kill off our heritage.


Many counsels- especially the newer ones run by a generation of full bloods that want to return to the old ways, are even more militant about keeping half breeds and less that half breeds out of the tribe.

I understand people sympathizing with the cause, but one needs to understand the entire delimma and stop looking at American Indians like a group of handicaps that needs help. The screening keeps non-Indians from getting the proceeds from royalities that are paid by people using Indian Land. It keeps non-Indians from getting free tuition or fed loan repayments.

It is as much a method of protection as it is a method to prove ones ancestory.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW,

I should also add, that I know this from previous experience. I have been chewed out by my fellow AIM members (I dropped out because of the racism, contrary to what many believe there is a large portion of the population that hates all non-Indians). I was called a sell out for marrying a white man..etc..

In the Hispanic culture I have had friends and even relatives that are mixed call me a "coconut" it is a slang used by Hispanic to another one "Brown on the outside and White on the inside". This is because I do not dress in a "Hispanic" style nor do I speak with an accent.

Personally, I feel I am truly blessed to be of mixed blood because it helps me identify with many cultures. My point is that racism is present in all groups- not just white.

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted February 10, 2005 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just think it's absurd that we have to have a public debate about whether or not a person has enough Indian blood to speak as an Indian.
I don't think people were challenging Ward Churchill on whether or not he is eligible for money from the gov't.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're right Harpyr, but what is being challenged is the fact that he may have been hired, bypassing some of the tenure specifications, because he says he is of American Indian decent. If he is not, and was given preferential treatment in order to teach a course in Ethnic studies, then he committed fraud. He may very well be fluid in the culture and have many AI friends, but claiming status is what is at issue.

It would be similar to a person saying that they had a medical degree and subsequently they were hired to teach methods in treatment, only to find out they only attended one year of school- but watched alot of ER.


When you fill out an application and you lie, that is fraud- and the applicant can be prosecuted depending on the position applied for- such as government or state position. In Mr. Churchill's speech he declared that he did not work for the governor nor the tax payers. That is wrong- he does because CU received government funding, as well as student receive goverment grants (tax payer money) to attend his classes and therefore pay his salary.

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Mystic Dreamz
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 03:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW,
I should also add, that I know this from previous experience. I have been chewed out by my fellow AIM members (I dropped out because of the racism, contrary to what many believe there is a large portion of the population that hates all non-Indians). I was called a sell out for marrying a white man..etc..

In the Hispanic culture I have had friends and even relatives that are mixed call me a "coconut" it is a slang used by Hispanic to another one "Brown on the outside and White on the inside". This is because I do not dress in a "Hispanic" style nor do I speak with an accent.

Personally, I feel I am truly blessed to be of mixed blood because it helps me identify with many cultures. My point is that racism is present in all groups- not just white.

I am hispanic where I am from no one used that term. I guess it also depends where you live. Racism definitely exists in many people. In my mothers side of the family that is south american we carry spaniard and indigenous blood. From my fathers side in the carribean we carry african, indigenous, and spanish blood, and british blood. It feels great to be able to identify with other cultures as well.

I once had someone tell me i looked like a white girl which really ****** me off because whether i look white or not shouldn't really matter. I know many hispanics who are ghetto, some are more decent so it depends. I would be really angry if I was to experience racism from my own people.

There are arab colombians, chinease colombians, black colombians, u name it.

I once had a lady look at me wierd because of my last name. it is a british last name so she found it wierd that I ws hispanic and had that last name. I explained to her that my great grandfather was british. She still looked confused.

Everyone needs to be united. race should not matter.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harpyr,

Do you have the reference to his genetic testing? I would be interested in reading about it. I can't find anything, only that he claims to be Creek Indian and is an "enrolled" member of the Keetoowah Band Cherokee. Not that he is a tribal member.

If you can't find it- no worries, somehow I think the truth will be coming out shortly.

Thanks- Pidaua

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ohh...I think I found something- it is about the Haplotype carried down through the mitochondrial cells (which come from the mother)- bad if your mom is non-Indian and your dad is Indian and his mom was non-Indian..see..

here is the site:
http://www.comanchelodge.com/cherokee-blood.html

But, it only proves you have that sequence. Right now you still have to have a certain percentage to qualify...I'll see what else I find.

Damn, I can already see where this test is faulty. See if your mom is white and your dad is a half AI (from his dad) and half..say Spanish (from his mom)- you will throw out a non-Indian profile.

The Indian Lineage of the father is carried by the y Chromosome in this instance- since the child is say a female- she will only get the X from him..which came from his non-Indian mother.

A further review of the site shows that most of the genetic markers are also present in the majority of populations found out here...SO..one would have to be nearly 80% or more to be conclusive...

Sorry...LOL..I am kind of rambling..thinking and analyzing yet still typing LMAO..what a geek am I?

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proxieme
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 05:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
'Tis cool.

Geek thought-flow is interesting.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 10, 2005 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank prox LOL...

Here is an interesting update.

Dr. David Yeagley, member of the Comanche Warrior Bad Eagle, was interviewed by Bill O'Reilly (regardless of who hates Fox News, the Dr. is a credible professor in Oklahoma).

He states that Ward is NOT American Indian. He was given an Honorary enrollment card to the Cherokee tribe in 1991 / 1992 along with several others, including President Bill Clinton. The program was later dismantled and the cards were revoked (as they were given out against Federal rules and regulations regarding American Indians).

The Chief of the tribe has made a statement (I will post it once I find it) that Ward is NOT a blood member. There is NO proof of his membership and there are many American Indians angry with his flagrant misuse of calling himself an Indian - others just don't care, with the exception of the militant AIM group.

Also, the Denver Post reported in a 1987 news article (that was just made public again) an allegation, backed by member facts, that Mr. Ward Churchill taught a terrorist Anti-American group calling themselves the Weathermen, how to build bombs and shoot guns.

Interesting fellow.

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TINK
unregistered
posted February 10, 2005 08:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
CU appointed him because he claimed to be native American and they wanted to have "ethnic diversity" in their tenured faculty.

Huh? *shakes head* I must be from another planet.

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