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Author Topic:   Is Bush getting too much flack for Katrina?
AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 02, 2005 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To be honest, I think Bush might be taking too much heat for Katrina. I don't know all of the factors involved, but it seems like that's an awful lot to just put on him.

What's your opinion?

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Petron
unregistered
posted September 02, 2005 06:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the response to this catastrophe has been awfully weak.......

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TINK
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posted September 02, 2005 06:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It has been unusually slow and unresponsive. Old fashioned incompetence or a really fun social experiment?

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Petron
unregistered
posted September 02, 2005 06:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
its not like they didnt know exactly what would happen......


***********

nationalgeographic ---"gone with the water"
By Joel K. Bourne, Jr.
ngm oct. 2004 site index

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.

The chances of such a storm hitting New Orleans in any given year are slight, but the danger is growing. Climatologists predict that powerful storms may occur more frequently this century, while rising sea level from global warming is putting low-lying coasts at greater risk. "It's not if it will happen," says University of New Orleans geologist Shea Penland. "It's when."

Such high stakes compelled a host of unlikely bedfellows—scientists, environmental groups, business leaders, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers—to forge a radical plan to protect what's left. Drafted by the Corps a year ago, the Louisiana Coastal Area (LCA) project was initially estimated to cost up to 14 billion dollars over 30 years, almost twice as much as current efforts to save the Everglades. But the Bush Administration balked at the price tag, supporting instead a plan to spend up to two billion dollars over the next ten years to fund the most promising projects. Either way, Congress must authorize the money before work can begin.


http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/


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Petron
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posted September 02, 2005 07:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Death toll in Louisiana could be above 10,000: US Senator

Fri Sep 2, 1:02 PM ET

BATON ROUGE, United States (AFP) - US Senator David Vitter said that the death toll from Hurricane Katrina could top 10,000 in Louisiana alone.


"My guess is that it will start at 10,000, but that is only a guess," Vitter said, adding that he was not basing his remarks on any official death toll or body count.

Vitter, a Louisiana Republican, also called for the immediate deployment of regular US combat troops in New Orleans, saying the build-up of National Guard troops was too slow to quickly restore order.

Such a step would require Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco to formally request the dispatch of federal army soldiers, a highly unusual step.

Blanco said on Thursday that she had asked for 40,000 troops, the majority of which are National Guard units from Louisiana and elsewhere.

Five-thousand National Guard troops are expected to be on the ground in violence-wracked New Orleans by late Friday, military leaders said.

But Vitter said that timeline could be too slow, amid reports that bands of armed men are roaming the streets in the city, which is 80 percent submerged in floods brought in by a storm tide after the hurricane hit on Monday.

Vitter, speaking to reporters at the emergency response center in Baton Rouge, also said he gave the federal government a grade 'F' for its response to the disaster so far.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050902/pl_afp/usweatherdeaths


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TINK
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posted September 02, 2005 07:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. So you mean they weren't surprised? Those FEMA guys must be psychic.

Interesting to watch people band together like good Americans though, wasn't it? Interesting to watch people rise to the occasion. Interesting to watch how quickly we beg for the military to come in and save us.

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Petron
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posted September 02, 2005 07:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well ...this is just the kind of thing the national guard is supposed to be doing.....

*ahem*

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 02, 2005 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How likely is it that a different administration would have had the same response to the National Geographic report?

Was there anything that could have been done on a local or state level?

While not it's job, should the Red Cross have diverted the money that would have gone to shelters to strengthening the levies?

Is the government working slow because it underestimated the severity of the situation? Is it more a matter of the logistics being tough to manage rapidly? Or are they just altogether slow for whatever reason?

I guess I'm just being lazy here, but the media has been really superficial in it's criticism, and I wanted a broader perspective.

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 02, 2005 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you, Acoustic. The relief has been a bit slow, but this was a very big disaster. To lay the blame for this on one person is a bit ridiculous, I think.

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Petron
unregistered
posted September 02, 2005 09:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well i wouldnt say its all his fault....

********


As South drowns, Rice soaks in N.Y.

Did New Yorkers chase Condoleezza Rice back to Washington yesterday?

Like President Bush, the Secretary of State has been on vacation during the Hurricane Katrina crisis, with Rice enjoying her downtime in New York Wednesday and yesterday. The cabinet member's responsibilities are usually international, but her timing contributed to the "fiddling while Rome burns" impression given by her boss during the disaster, which may have claimed thousands of lives.

On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at "Spamalot!," the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.

Yesterday, Rice went shopping at Ferragamo on Fifth Ave. According to the Web site Gawker.com, the 50-year-old bought "several thousand dollars' worth of shoes" at the pricey leather-goods boutique.

A fellow shopper shouted, "How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!" - presumably referring to Louisiana and Mississippi.

The woman expressing her First Amendment rights was promptly removed from the store. A Ferragamo store manager confirmed to us that Rice did shop there yesterday, but refused to answer questions about whether the protester was removed, and whether by his own security or the Secret Service.

At the State Department's daily briefing yesterday morning, before the New York incident, spokesman Sean McCormack responded to a journalist who asked whether Rice was involved with hurricane relief efforts by saying, "She's in contact with the department as appropriate." He made no mention that his boss had any plans to leave New York.

But yesterday afternoon, Rice had done just that. Department spokeswoman Joanne Moore told us: "The secretary is back in Washington, and she is being briefed on the situation." Moore did not know whether Condi had planned a longer stay here.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/342707p-292600c.html


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Petron
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posted September 02, 2005 09:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
but at least he's admitting to his responsibility.......

********

UPDATE 2-Hurricane Katrina relief efforts unacceptable-Bush
Fri Sep 2, 2005 10:35 AM ET
By Steve Holland

WASHINGTON, Sept 2 (Reuters) - Relief efforts after Hurricane Katrina have been unacceptable, U.S. President George W. Bush acknowledged on Friday before heading out on a tour of storm-ravaged New Orleans and other areas of the U.S. Gulf Coast.

Faced with victims' urgent pleas for help and mounting criticism that the federal government has been too slow to respond, Bush said many people had been working hard in the five days since the deadly storm struck on Monday morning, but more needed to be done.

"The results are not acceptable. I'm headed down there right now. I'm looking forward to talking to the people on the ground," he said."

He spoke on the White House lawn before traveling to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama to assess damage from one of the worst U.S. natural disasters.

Anarchy and looting have broken out in flooded New Orleans, tens of thousands across the area remain stranded and without adequate food and water, and local officials are warning of a death toll that could number in the thousands. Only half of the 30,000 National Guard and military troops so far dispatched are in place.

"I want to assure the people of the affected areas and this country that we'll deploy the assets necessary to get the situation under control," Bush said.

Bush cut his vacation short by two days to return to Washington on Wednesday to oversee the recovery. His request of a quick $10.5 billion in aid was approved by the U.S. Senate and was set for swift passage by the House of Representatives.

But his administration is facing questions over the adequacy of its funding for New Orleans' levees and its readiness for the disaster. Concerns are also growing over the U.S. economy as gasoline prices surge above $3 a gallon.

Bush insisted, "We'll get on top of this situation and we're going to help people who need help."

Bush's first stop is Mobile, Alabama. After that, he will tour the Alabama-Mississippi coast by helicopter then take a walk through damaged neighborhoods in Biloxi, Mississippi. Bush will take an aerial tour of New Orleans then deliver a statement from the airport.

He will meet with the governors of all three states.

Katrina's aftermath presents Bush with his greatest emergency since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. He has already been struggling with the lowest approval ratings of his presidency amid rising discontent with the Iraq war.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

http://today.reuters. com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2005-09-02T143418Z_01_N02357272_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-BUSH-UPDATE-2.XML

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 02, 2005 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I work in emergency response and here is the deal. The Federal Government CANNOT just step in - that would make us "not America". They have to wait for the GOVERNOR of the state to declare an emergency. The Gov sat on her rear (knowing this was coming and yet NOT putting anyone on alert).

They had no idea how many people evacuated after all the communications went out. Still.. she did not call for a state of emergency.

In ALL the other cases the Gov's called a SOE within hours of an event and that is why the response was fast. This has been all over the news today yet people think the Feds can just waive a wand and show up.

As soon as the Gov got off her ass and did something, guess what... here come the troops.

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proxieme
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posted September 02, 2005 11:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really do think that Bush's getting a bit of a raw deal in the press.
Has his personal response (and the Fed's response) seemed weak?
Yeah.
But most of the blame for this disaster can get placed on the local and state governments for simply not doing their respective jobs, both in the distant and immediate past.

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TINK
unregistered
posted September 02, 2005 11:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, pid. I think a lot more of the blame can be dropped on the doorstep of the local government then the Federal. On the other hand, I've read a lot of complaints about FEMA's lack of response (once they were allowed to go in).

All in all, an ungodly mess.

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Petron
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posted September 02, 2005 11:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html


******

August 28, 2005
Mandatory Evacuation Ordered for New Orleans as Storm Nears
By CHRISTINE HAUSER
and THOMAS J. LUECK

Threatened with a potential catastrophe, the mayor of New Orleans ordered people in the city to evacuate today as Hurricane Katrina gained strength. President Bush has already declared an emergency for Louisiana and Mississippi, which along with other parts of the northern Gulf coast states lie in the direction of the hurricane. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/national/29k atrinacnd.html?adxnnl=0&adxnnlx=1125345182-bdMePcE/ywIIqmedhjvUng&pagewanted=print

*****
at fema it says emergency was declared aug. 27...the day before evacuations were ordered...

.a disaster was declared aug 29 the day katrina hit......
http://www.fema.gov/news/disasters_state.fema?id=22

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Petron
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posted September 02, 2005 11:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guardsmen Greeted With Applause, Anger
Sep 02 2:54 PM US/Eastern
By ALLEN G. BREED
Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS

Four days after Hurricane Katrina struck, the National Guard arrived in force Friday with food, water and weapons, churning through the floodwaters in a vast truck convoy with orders to retake the streets and bring relief to the suffering.

"The cavalry is and will continue to arrive," said Lt. Gen. Steven Blum of the National Guard.

At the New Orleans Convention Center, some of the thousands of storm victims awaiting their deliverance applauded, threw their hands heavenward and screamed, "Thank you, Jesus!" as the camouflage-green trucks and hundreds of soldiers arrived in this increasingly desperate and lawless city.

"Lord, I thank you for getting us out of here," said Leschia Radford.

But there was also anger and profane catcalls.

"Hell no, I'm not glad to see them. They should have been here days ago. I ain't glad to see 'em. I'll be glad when 100 buses show up," said 46-year-old Michael Levy, whose words were echoed by those around him yelling, "Hell, yeah! Hell yeah!"

"We've been sleeping on the ... ground like rats," Levy said. "I say burn this whole ... city down."

The soldiers' arrival-in-force came amid blistering criticism from the mayor and others who said the federal government had bungled the relief effort and let people die in the streets for lack of food, water or medicine.

"The people of our city are holding on by a thread," Mayor Ray Nagin warned in a statement to CNN. "Time has run out. Can we survive another night? And who can we depend on? Only God knows."
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CC9VLGE.html

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LibraSparkle
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posted September 03, 2005 12:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I heard about people being condemned by the Bush Admin. for looting... Zero tolerance for those willing to do ANYTHING to survive... I got PO'd. So PO'd... Seriously... WTF are these people supposed to do? The children are hungry... crying... they need food.

I'm so angry that these people are suffering so greatly while he takes his sweet time to go down there and assess the situation. He should have been there im-effin-mediately!

People are going mad down there. They are in Survival Mode. The police are quitting left and right. What are they supposed to do... Be good citizens and sit there quietly, while starving to death?!

New Orleans is now a war zone. People are behaving savagely toward one and other.

Bush will not tolerate this behavior in the Middle East... but he will tolerate it here? On his home soil?

I am outraged.

Apparently Bush cares more about the people in the Middle East than he does about his own citizens.

Maybe he needs to take his little spoiled self down there and live in squalor like the others to find out what its like to have to live to Survive.

I am equally disgusted with the lack of action on the parts of the state government.

I am just infuriated that something more isn't being done for these AMERICAN people.

We can send food to foreign nations, but we can't take care of our own.

This situation is a huge shame for America.

Raw deal or not for Bush... I'm glad to know his approval rate is dropping. If this HAD to happen, why couldn't it have happened a year ago?!

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 03, 2005 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is off-topic a bit, but an interesting thought none the less. I'm a little embarrassed that I only thought of it today.

Do you guys think Karma or God had anything to do with this disaster? I've never been there, but given New Orleans reputation could this situation be seen as a sign of either washing away the evil, or balancing the energy?

I heard on the radio tonight that this probability has been known about since Hurricane Andrew(?) in 1992. Given that amount of time, and that little preparation, and (what else did I hear?) that there are purportedly a ton of school buses that were all parked and later engulfed in water instead of being used to evacuate people, it does seem a bit creepy and fated to happen.

Opinions?

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Petron
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posted September 03, 2005 05:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Genesis 18

23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

26And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.


32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

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LibraSparkle
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posted September 03, 2005 12:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My husband and I had a huge argument about this.

He feels the people were warned... they didn't leave. They don't deserve any help.

"Let them parish there. The damn fools should have left when they were told the hurricane was coming."

"We need to weed out the week so our species can evolve."

I got very upset at his lack of compassion.

Granted, these people were warned. They chose to stay. I've seen people on the news saying things like, "I've never been through a hurricane before. I think I'm going to stay and see what happens." I still don't think these fools should be left there to die.

Well... now we know what happens.

What upsets me about my husband's attitude about this is that these are OUR PEOPLE.

Foreign leaders and tsk-ing us and shaking their heads, ashamed for us.

On a side note, I don't think New Orleans should be rebuilt. I think it should be no more.

Obviously, New Orleans isn't the best place to choose to build a city.

There is a PBS special out about New Orleans. It claims scientists have KNOWN New Orleans land has been receding into the sea for decades. They stated that they could study thousands of years of erosion along New Orleans' shore lines in mere years.

The dammed the Mississippi. Duh. There has to be somewhere for that water to go. THAT is why it is a swamp.

I found this small article on the net suggesting this is a very good indicator of how the US government will respond if any US city were to be hit with biological or nuclear weapons.

Doesn't seem very promising, does it?

I'll see if I can find the article again.

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Jaqueline
unregistered
posted September 03, 2005 04:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi to all

I was living in Miami when Andrew hit the town.

My house was in Coral Gables, according to the tv, not a danger zone.
We were repeatedly advised by the media that South Dade should expect "50 mph winds."
We were not even advised to evacuate.
That’s why I stayed at home with my husband, my children (my daughter was 20 months) and my three dogs. Huge mistake.

Minutes before midnight, the tv alert:
"We interrupt this program to bring you an emergency alert from the National Broadcast Emergency Center! This is an emergency alert! I repeat, this is an emergency alert! The outer winds of Hurricane Andrew have just reached the Florida coast. Hurricane Andrew has unexpectedly shifted five degrees south. I repeat, Hurricane Andrew has shifted five degrees south. Andrew is expected to strike South Dade within minutes. I repeat, Andrew is expected to strike South Dade within minutes. All South Dade residents should take immediate cover. I repeat, all South Dade residents should take immediate cover. This is an emergency alert."
"All South Dade residents are advised to stay put! Do not attempt to leave the area!"

Too late.

Minutes after midnight the lights went out. Around 2 am we went to the closet as the “tv” recommended would be a safe place.

During two and a half hours, while my house shaking, we heard a noise that seemed like a scream... as if a lot of people were screaming or crying. “The voice” of the hurricane, I imagine.

My dogs - three Maltese - were so afraid that they didn't bark nor moved.
The funny thing is that they spent the previous day looking at the sky and barking...as wolves!
They knew what will happen...we don’t...

I lost 40% of the roof, my swimming pool looked like a deposit of debris.
But we had luck. Many of my cul-de-sac neighbors lost part of their houses and some almost died during the passage of Andrew.

In the first few days, we had no water, no food, no phone...and no electricity for 16 days!
Without electricity we had no microwave, no TV, no refrigerator, no cook-top, no air conditioning...

Why did I write all of this?
Because when I see Bush being criticized I remember that “I already saw that movie.”

quote:
Kate Hale, the Dade County emergency director, went on live national television on 27 August with tears in her eyes and castigated the federal government. Some of her comments were:
Enough is enough. Quit playing like a bunch of kids. Where in the Hell is the cavalry? For God's sakes, where are they?

We are going to have more casualties, because we are going to have more people dehydrated. People without water. People without food. Babies without formula.
We have a catastrophic disaster.

We are essentially the walking wounded. We have appealed through the State to the Federal Government. We've had a lot of people down here for press conferences, but Dade County is on its own.

Dade County is being caught in the middle of something and we are being victimized. Quit playing like a bunch of kids and get us aid! Sort out your political games afterward!

We are all about ready to drop, and the reinforcements are not getting in fast enough. We need better National Guard down here...President Bush was down here. I'd like him to follow up on the commitments he made.

At the time of the speech, three days after the storm, 250,000 Florida residents were struggling to survive without foot, water and shelter.

On the same day, Miami Herald staff writers Martin Merzer and Tom Fiedler wrote:
The question echoed through the debris Thursday: If we can do it for Bangladesh, for the Philippines, for the Kurds of northern Iraq, why in God's name can't we deliver basic necessities of life to the ravaged population of our own Gold Coast?

President George Bush contended that Florida Governor Lawton Chiles hadn't formally asked for help. Chiles countered that the need for a formal request seemed silly with the world watching images of 250,000 flattened homes.


At that time president Bush (Senior) was strongly criticized of being slow to recognize the disaster and in helping Andrew's victims.

Naturally I don't believe that the Bush family is responsible for all the natural disasters that happen in US.
However, they -father and son- are slow in re-acting. They are slow in understanding the gravity of problems.
It is enough to remind Bush Jr's facial expression in the school when he was informed on the 9/11 attacks.

Well, maybe they are a little unlucky...

Andrew - the worst natural disaster in US history until Katrina - happened when Bush Senior was president.
9/11 happened in Bush Jr's 1st administration.
Now Katrina...the new worst natural disaster in US history happens in his 2nd administration...


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Jaqueline
unregistered
posted September 03, 2005 04:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Acoustic God,

Karma of God doesn't exist. What exist is our Karma, human Karma.
God has nothing to do with that...
The Law of Karma teaches that we are responsible for what happens to us - good and bad things.
And what goes around comes around...

Yet, Karma doesn't punish, Karma teaches...for those who wants to learn.

I already read in a book that 9/11 were the karmic answer for Iroshima and Nagasaki and that the kidnappers were reincarnated spirits -that didn't get to forgive- of victims of the bomb...

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 03, 2005 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I said Karma OR God (just to clarify). Any other power of the universe would suffice as well.

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Jaqueline
unregistered
posted September 03, 2005 04:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry.
My mistake

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Petron
unregistered
posted September 04, 2005 07:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'd not heard of kanye west til now, but i think i'll go get his album now....heres the clip where he goes off the script and blasts bush at the nbc telethon.....i thought mike myers and chris tuckers' jaw was going to drop out!!

****

quote:
"I hate the way they portray us in the media. "If you see a black family it says they are looting if you see a white family it says they are looking for food.

"We already realize a lot of the people that could help are at war now fighting another way and they’ve given them permission to go down and shoot us."

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."-- Kanye West



http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79

****

heres a msn video format of the same clip
see the video section the right....."Kanye West off the script"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9147333/

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