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Author Topic:   PIGS
peajie
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 07:28 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now the British Banks are going to stop using "Pggy Banks" for savings.

...... Because it offends the Muslems !!!!!

Come on you followers of Allah, do you REALLY care ?

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TINK
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posted November 06, 2005 10:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the phrase piggy bank is most appropriate and we would all loose its simple yet effective lesson if we were to stop using it.


Are the British Banks afraid the Muslim community will be offended or have the Muslims already stated their unhappiness? Where did you read this? Could you share the link?

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proxieme
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posted November 06, 2005 02:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=68445

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juniperb
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Posts: 856
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2005 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...from prox`s link:

quote:
Muslims do not eat pork, as Islamic culture deems the pig to be an impure animal.


Mosaic Law (Leviticus 11, KJV)forbids pork for Christians and Jews as well, so one does wonder why it is specifically stated for the Muslems ...

Blessings

------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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SecretGardenAgain
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 06:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lol ur right i would never be offended, and most muslims jest about it rather than get really serious about it,

my adorable nephew (cousins son) was walking with me past some kids trick or treating on halloween, this one girl was dressed like a pig or something lol. my nephew looks and me and goes 'oh my gosh is she really dressed like a pig pig? isnt that like sinful?' and then he quickly added 'oops another backbite for the day' and turned red his dad had given it to him earlier on for backbiting about an aunt

Love
SG

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SecretGardenAgain
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 06:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
btw this is a random and minor correction but we're followers of Mohammad (peace be upon him) and creatures of Allah.

Love
SG

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TINK
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 10:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Claiming it's unhealthy to eat pigs might very well be true but saying pigs are "impure animals" is a bit silly, in my opinion. That sort of fanatical thinking just sets up an ugly mental block, you know what I mean? Mosaic law notwithstanding, I think the Pope eats pork.

Thank you for the link, prox. Is that where you originally found the story, Peajie? I don't see where in the story Muslims are calling for a piggy bank ban. Looks like maybe the banks jumped the gun. Gee, do you think the British Muslims will riot over it? Possibly they have more important things to worry about.

I wonder if the pigs are offended? Has anybody thought about that? Piggys get no damn respect.

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SecretGardenAgain
unregistered
posted November 07, 2005 01:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
tink why would calling the pig impure be intolerant? this is usually a direct translation of arabic, 'impure animal', in the language it means, not suitable for hygeinic purposes. impure might sound fancy but break it down--im (not!) and pure (clean!). who wants to live with pigs? they are filthy people lets face the facts.

besides that it is everyones choice.

we have every right to dislike pigs and even hate them if we please, because if other people have the right to love pigs, why cant we hate them?

we are not killing them, no one is on a mass pig killing rampage!

we just avoid them!

as most muslims avoid dogs!

it never fails to amaze me how quick people are to make the judgement call on whats fanatic and whats not. maybe one should take a look at their own faith before jumping to that conclusion, and i ASSURE you that there are extremists in every religion. but I dont make that judgement call, because calling someone fanatic for something like 'impure animal' is as bad as being one.

Love
SG

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Johnny
Newflake

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From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted November 07, 2005 03:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Secret Garden, are you sure that pigs are filthy animals? I would bet that, in terms of hygiene, at least, they are no more dirty than any other animal. Take cows for instance. Are cows more clean than pigs? Does either bathe regularly?

Regardless, it's a pretty funny story. By funny, I of course mean incredibly annoying. Any religious person who is actually offended by something like this should go jump out a window. Into spiky plants and things.

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peajie
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posted November 07, 2005 10:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SecretGardenAgain,

Thanks for the correction, that was a stupid slip.

Having played with pigs when young I claim they are very clean animals. They may wash in mud, but who are we to say mud is unclean. I know many human down-to-earthers who take mud baths.

The reason not to eat them is because they do not sweat. That lovely crackling and bacon is the result of accumulated toxins under the skin.

If any animal is unclean it is certainly humans !! Especially in their heads when the claim to judge creatures created by God.

Or when they put their own ignorant prejudices before love of their human brothers and sisters.

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sue g
unregistered
posted November 07, 2005 10:20 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am told that pigs are extremely intelligent, clean, and likeable people....errrrr.....animals.

I remember I asked my father years ago if he would like me to make him a bacon sandwich, to which he replied "no thanks daughter, bacon makes one angry"..................anyone care to elaborate......?

Thanks


xxxx

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 07, 2005 01:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The reason not to eat them is because they do not sweat. That lovely crackling and bacon is the result of accumulated toxins under the skin.

Perhaps that is the reason for them being considered unclean (Biblically).
That and the luverly spirochetes and tapeworms that they are wont to carry...
The being "unclean" to eat seems like it would be of more practical pressing importance than being messy.
Maybe from there it just evolved into an all-out food prohibition with Jews and a general aversion with Muslims.

...?

SG - I didn't know Muslims avoided dogs.
Hm. Learn something new every day.

Tibet: Muslim Hell

(Dog's are *everywhere* there, especially the larger cities - they're considered the incarnation directly before humans and it's unlawful to kill them.)

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juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted November 07, 2005 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I`ve always enjoyed the allegorcial insights of Barnabas on the dietary Laws of the Old Testament:

quote:

10:3 Accordingly he mentioned the swine with this intent. Thou shalt not cleave, saith he, to such men who are like unto swine; that is, when they are in luxury they forget the Lord, but when they are in want they recognize the Lord, just as the swine when it eateth knoweth not his lord, but when it is hungry it crieth out, and when it has received food again it is silent


I know I`ve met a few of that nature.


------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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SecretGardenAgain
unregistered
posted November 07, 2005 04:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
it is considered unclean not because of its outwardly habits but its inside meat. ask any doctor. they all say to avoid pork because it has the most potential to harbor worms and all sorts of neat stuff. when people have engina and heart probs one of the first foods prohibited to them is any form of pork.

sue, ur comment about becoming angry is a belief that meat in general has more aggressor hormones in it, and meat eating people are more aggresive than non meat eaters. i am not sure if this theory is correct but at least one nutritionist has confirmed it, saying that poultry has the least effect, lamb has more, beef even more, and mostly, pork.

Love
SG

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 07, 2005 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Arien roommate LOVES pork! It's like weird to me how much of a preference it is.

I don't mind pork, but I find just about every other meat more desirable as a matter of consistency. Pork's too dense for my taste. I do like bacon, but I limit that just based on fat content.

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Johnny
Newflake

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From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted November 07, 2005 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>> Tibet: Muslim Hell

(Dog's are *everywhere* there, especially the larger cities - they're considered the incarnation directly before humans and it's unlawful to kill them.) <<

An excellent law, IMO. Who could kill a dog??


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proxieme
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posted November 07, 2005 05:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...Yeah, I've got to say that I agree w/ you there...but they're also not neutered.

In Lhasa there are semi-feral dogs lying all about in the drizzle around the temples during the day; at night they form packs and chase tourists.

I'm not kidding.

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peajie
unregistered
posted November 07, 2005 07:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To be called a Pig means to be greedy.
To eat too much.

Strange how a topic which started on the strange mental abherrations of humans becomes a discussion on eating habits.

Which of us I wonder is more ruled by our stomachs ? (humans or pigs?)
And what does the content of our dinner plate have to do with spirituality and religious devotion ?

In fact what do all local social customs and distractions have to do with humanitys' spitituality ?

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TINK
unregistered
posted November 07, 2005 08:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My apologies, SG, if I came off as intolerant. Someday, God willing, I'll learn that tongue-in-cheek doesn't translate well over the internet. Honestly, if the Muslims don't tolerate the pigs, that is their business and they are welcome to it. However, this confused me slightly ... "i ASSURE you that there are extremists in every religion. but I dont make that judgement call ..." Of course, I agree that there are extremists in every religion, but in order to do that I first needed to make the judgement call. In other words, this seems extreme, this doesn't. How could we come to that conclusion otherwise?

I didn't know that about dogs either. Interesting. Do you know the reasoning behind it, SG?

I do agree that eating pig flesh might not be a wise move (I'm a vegetarian) but I do admit to a certain fondness for Wilbur. After all, my flesh probably isn't all that healthful to eat either.

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SecretGardenAgain
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posted November 08, 2005 12:28 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi tink, what i meant , and iwill clarify it is:

in ANY religion there are bound to be extremists, and then moderates. i know they exist but i dont make the judgement call on who is extremist and who isn't. it is a mentality it exists but who am i to classify a specific person to a general concept by thinking that i am inside their mentality.

anyways i did take ur words literally. and now i understand that maybe u didnt mean them that way. nonetheless its not extreme to dislike pig in fact its a norm in the muslim culture. we dont look down on ppl who do eat pig we just cant accept it for ourselves, it is our belief and it is not hurting anyone, least of all pigs, so why care?

also, peajie, i agree that spirituality is not dependent on rituals, but rituals are more of a community building exercise as well as for self discipline. no principle can be instituted on a personal basis without certain 'rules' to help enforce it.

tink, as for the dogs, it is generally thot that since they can get fleas easily, and muslims have to stay spick and span for the five times a day prayer (we wash ourselves before it, and are required to keep all body hair under about 1 cm length), we are supposed to avoid anything which could mess with that . its not a hard and fast rule, but most muslims do avoid dogs. on the other hand, like i said its not a hard and fast rule, and some muslims own dogs as pets and love them.

no offense taken here tink

Love
SG

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Saturn's Child
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posted November 08, 2005 12:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Going way, way back, there was a word in English, "pygg," which referred to a certain clay. It was used for making all kinds of household objects, including things for storing money. At the time the barbaric Saxons learned to write, "pygg" was probably pronounced to rhyme with "pug," but as the pronunciation of "y" changed, "pygg" came to be pronounced about like "pig," and the banks were shaped like pigs as a joke, or because of confusion of the meaning.

According to Charles Panati's Extraordinary Origins of Everyday Things, people were saving money in kitchen pots and jars made of pygg, called "pygg jars"... and by the 18th Century, pygg jar had become pig bank, potters simply casting the bank in the shape of its common, everyday name.

By the way, clay bottles filled with hot water are still used as bed-warmers in parts of Britain, and are called "pigs" or "china pigs"; Eric Bogle did a song about them. They, too, are often shaped like pigs as a visual pun.

Pygg survived in its original pronunciation as "pug," a clay slip; and "pug mill," a mixing machine used originally for clay. Here, again, the spelling was changed to fit new ideas about spelling.

OK, after that, "bank" must be simple. Not so fast. Bank originally meant "bench"; you can probably see the connection between the words. Money lenders in Northern Italy once did business in open areas, or big open rooms, with each lender working from his own bench or table. If he went "broke," the piece of furniture was literally broken to signify that he wasn't in business anymore.

So, how could anyone be offended by a ceramic pig that one puts money in??? Gimme a break!!! I think we can become a little too sensitive sometimes....take ourselves a bit too seriously. If someone is offended by piggy banks perhaps they should consider getting a grip!!!!

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 08, 2005 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL

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TINK
unregistered
posted November 08, 2005 08:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh I see. Interesting. About the dogs I mean. And the 1 cm hair thing. Why the beards then, do you think?

My apologies if I'm prying again. I have that tendency. Just ask AG. A few months ago I began a hesitant exploratory search of your religion, so it's conceivable I might pester you.

Saturn, that was a fun ride! I adore that stuff.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 08, 2005 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes indeed. I wish she'd pry me out of my house and take me shopping and to Russia.

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peajie
unregistered
posted November 09, 2005 09:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Saturn's Child.

That was interesting stuff and good reading. Thanks !

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