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Author Topic:   In a Shift, Anti-Prostitution Effort Targets Pimps and Johns
proxieme
unregistered
posted December 15, 2005 09:56 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

The john peeked into the massage parlor.

"Hi, sweetie," said Kim, the manager of the Korean-run club in downtown Washington.

The john, a tall man in his fifties, stepped inside, smiling anxiously. He wore a chaste white shirt and sharply parted hair, and he smelled as if he'd had a drink.

"Look at his face -- very tired," Kim said as he went inside. "Sad people come. Stress people. This customer stay 30 minutes, then happy. Everybody happy."

Not everybody. A national campaign against prostitution has intensified in political, nonprofit and law enforcement circles, so much so that yesterday the House unanimously passed novel legislation, with the Senate expected to follow.

In the past, police sweeps have focused on the women. The new federal law would grant state and local law enforcement agencies funds to investigate and prosecute the men -- brothel owners and pimps. It would also target for arrest customers like the one at Kim's parlor lurching toward a girl in a bikini.

"You're out of luck," said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.), summing up the bill's message to the customers.

"The johns use and abuse these young women," said Rep. Deborah Pryce (R-Ohio). "And pimps -- you can call them slaveholders, the masters out in the field."

The attitudes of Pryce, who introduced the legislation in the House, and Cornyn, a sponsor in the Senate, reflect a shift in how the government and the public respond to the sex industry. Traditionally, women have been blamed as the source of the problem. But Pryce calls prostitution "modern-day slavery" in which teenage girls are exploited and men fuel the crime.

Behind the scenes, an unlikely coalition of evangelicals, feminists, liberal activists and conservative human rights advocates are pushing the issue. They are trying to reframe the way people talk about prostitutes, calling them "survivors" and signing off e-mails with the slogan "Abolition!"

On a local level, in the past three years, 12 states have passed anti-sex-trafficking legislation, which says that women who are prostituted through coercion, and minors who are sold for sex, are victims. In 15 other states, similar bills have been introduced. Although prostitution is illegal nationwide except in certain Nevada counties, advocates for the legislation said that enforcement and penalties for pimps and johns have been weak, including a tolerance for brothels that advertise as massage parlors.

"We want to drive a stake through the heart of these venal criminals," said Michael J. Horowitz, a coalition leader and a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. "This is pure evil."

This is bad news for the john at Kim's parlor, who lumbered out the door 37 minutes after he entered. His smile had relaxed. He looked as though he had just won a long-odds bet. Squinting in the afternoon light, he got into his car to drive home to Virginia, as he does every month after having sex, he said. Then he heard about the legislation.

"Do I look like a criminal?" scowled the man, who gave his name as "John." "I'm a middle-class, law-abiding single white professional. Let me have my fun."

"John" said that the women offer a service to the community, that it is a victimless crime and that lawmakers should concentrate on more important issues, such as the war in Iraq.

"It's like going to a doctor. A love doctor," he said. He spread his fingers, as if to show his hands were clean: "Is this a problem?"

Focusing on Demand

Though far apart politically, Democratic Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (N.Y.) and Republican Pryce were in Pryce's office, conferring on an issue they could agree upon.

"I don't think pimps care if a customer is a Republican or Democrat, do they?" quipped Maloney.

On a recent afternoon that Pryce called "one of the worst politically partisan days I have ever spent on Capitol Hill in 13 years," Pryce smiled as she talked with Maloney about the measure they introduced in April. Commercial sex, said Maloney, is about supply and demand. Women are the supply; men create demand. "We want to crack down on the demand," she said.

While the approach enjoys political support, some in the Justice Department have objected to referring to women engaged in an illegal activity as "victims" and have resisted federalizing what has been a local issue, proponents said.

Also, some nongovernmental organizations that advocate for the rights of sex workers question the effectiveness of focusing on demand. "It's punitive rather than preventative," said Ann D. Jordan, who directs the Initiative Against Trafficking in Persons at Global Rights. She said the measure fails to address the causes of prostitution, such as poverty. Federal money would be better spent on job training, said Juhu Thukral of the Sex Workers Project at the Urban Justice Center in New York.

Penelope Saunders, director of Different Avenues, which works with marginalized communities, said that "according this bill, all the men who are buying commercial sex are monsters -- and that's simply not true." Some johns help sex workers by reporting violent pimps, she said. Scaring away regular customers would force prostitutes into riskier behavior. Saunders said that calling these women "victims of sexual slavery" is inaccurate, patronizing and a "thinly veiled effort" to promote a conservative moral agenda.

But to Barrett Duke, a coalition member and vice president at the Southern Baptist Convention, the comparison to slavery is apt. He draws inspiration from 19th-century Christians. They fought the slave trade in England by working with "people of good will, who were not Christians, who understood that trade of human flesh was an abomination."

In Duke's coalition, the people of good will include Orthodox Jews, abortion-rights feminists and gay-rights liberals. At meetings, Duke said, they ease political tensions by joking: "One of us will say, 'Oh, you're out there working on that judges stuff!' We'll get a chuckle. Everyone sheathes their swords, but they're never very far from reach."

Donna M. Hughes, a professor of women's studies at the University of Rhode Island, said she was suspicious at first. She looked across the table at Duke and at a woman from the conservative Concerned Women for America: "I thought, 'Don't they eat feminists for breakfast?' "

Ultimately, they were able to march together by blinding themselves to everything but the women they hope to help.

On the Hill, Maloney said it was the reason she could team up with Pryce, chairman of the House Republican Conference. Maloney had met a woman named Tina Frundt at a hearing, who told her life story. Frundt said her foster mother's boyfriend had sold her for sex at the age of 10. "I kept interrupting her," Maloney said. As Frundt tried to talk, Maloney's stomach churned. "Psychologically, I could not stand to hear her."

Victimless Crime 'a Lie'

Frundt was 14 when a man in his twenties persuaded her to run away. She thought it was about love. He brought his friends over to gang-rape her. Soon he was selling her body to support them: $75 for oral sex, $100 to $125 for "basic sex," $200 for anal sex or for an additional person. A pimp who controls four women, said Derek Ellerman, co-executive director of the Polaris Project, an anti-sex-trafficking group, makes more than $600,000 a year in cash. When Frundt disobeyed her pimp, she said, he broke her arm with a bat.

"I was 14. I looked 14. I was sleeping with men who were 65 years old," said Frundt, 31, who joined the left-right coalition. She said her customers, bald and wrinkled, had sex while complaining about their wives; she closed her eyes. One fat client reeked of Bengay ointment. Afterward, she threw up. "They're sexual molesters and child abusers. I have to remember that abuse for the rest of my life. So why shouldn't they?"

Frundt, now a counselor at the Polaris Project, said that the average age of girls who enter the sex trade is 13. Like victims of domestic violence, she said, the girls are afraid to leave their pimps. They call their pimps "Daddy." If they report a pimp -- "He's going to beat your butt."

It was stories such as Frundt's, said Cornyn, that convinced him he should fight for the legislation. "A victimless crime?" he said. "Yeah, right, that's a lie."

And yet for Frundt and for others in the coalition, it is hard to believe that anyone would care. Norma Hotaling, founder of the SAGE Project Inc., a drug and mental health program for women in San Francisco, has a metal plate in her head with wires and screws from a pimp who delivered a "***** slap" when she refused to work.

As the director of SAGE (Standing Against Global Exploitation), Hotaling attended a reception in Congress for the Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act, which passed in 2000. The act assists foreign women who are sold for sex. At the reception, Hotaling met Horowitz, whose coalition had worked on a variety of human rights issues including religious persecution abroad and global sex trafficking.

"I said, 'What about me? What about my sisters?' " Hotaling said. Horowitz told her he was mired in anti-prison-rape legislation but when he was done he would address domestic sex trafficking. "I thought I was hallucinating," she said. "I was talking to someone who was very right-wing -- and he was concerned."

In their work together, Hotaling encouraged Horowitz to include a provision about educating and sensitizing law enforcement. She recalled the night the pimp broke her eye socket. The police let him go. They said it was her fault. Her cheekbone and jaw were crushed, so all she could do was wince -- mute -- when one of the men shrugged and said, "She's just a ***** ."

Photos on the Web, Decoys

About 50 detectives were watching a training video on human and sexual trafficking at the Washington Fraternal Order of Police Lodge. Men with shaved heads who were chewing on toothpicks, burly men in leather jackets -- recoiled, appalled.

A 14-year-old girl, the narrator said, had been locked in a room and was forced to have sex with 30 men a day.

"Oh, my God," a detective said, rapping the table with his wedding band.

A prosecutor from the Washington U.S. attorney's office noted that this was the program's first year in the District. "We need your help, you're the ones on the streets," said Sharon Marcus-Kurn, coordinator of the District's Human Trafficking Task Force. "This is a national effort."

In cities around the country, U.S. attorney's offices, the FBI, local prosecutors and nongovernmental organizations are developing similar task forces. The new legislation would assist them because, in addition to funding shelters for ex-prostitutes and sponsoring a statistical survey of prostitution, it would authorize $25 million a year to law enforcement to reduce demand. Techniques would include using female decoys, posting pictures of johns on the Internet and establishing "john schools" to reeducate sex clients.

Hughes said that 90 percent of prostitution arrests are of women: "There's been a conspiracy of silence of men not wanting to hold other men accountable."

That pattern is changing, if slowly, law enforcement officials said. In New York City, said Tony Communiello, from the Queens district attorney's office, they have instituted the "Losing Proposition," where undercover policewomen try to seize the john's car. In St. Louis, said Len Tracy, chief investigator at the St. Charles County prosecutor's office, they are applying drug-trafficking techniques to pimps, charging them with financial crimes. In Las Vegas, said Victor Vigna, a sergeant on the metropolitan police force, they administer HIV tests for arrested johns and show them photos of genitals covered with disease-related lesions.

And yet, despite these efforts, the pimp in the '05 black DeVille idling his engine after midnight, greeted the news with a shake of his braids and a snort. "They can't stop it," said Steve, who would not give his last name. He sat at the corner of 15th and L streets NW, watching a girl in a miniskirt flitting in the cold. The shadow of the steering wheel cut across his face. "People can be bought. It's gone back to cave days."

Steve dismissed the measure as a political stunt, noting that lawmakers have been clients, too. He said that "some women like being exploited" and suggested that abolishing prostitution would trigger a rise in rapes and killings: "You got a lot of sick-minded people out here."

But at least one massage-parlor manager is worried. Kay slouched into a white satin couch at one of eight massage parlors within a 10-block radius of the White House. A girl in a white bikini slipped across the red lights, into a massage room that has a clock with a second hand. Kay used to be a massage therapist, too, she said, but at 55 she's too old.

The legislation, Kay said, "makes me a headache." The parlor will lose clients and she'll lose her job. A frown gathered at the edge of her lips, but then she smoothed her long red hair and smiled. "I'll have to find a nice man, and settle down."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121402539.html?sub=AR
~~~
What do ya'll think?

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted December 15, 2005 10:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think
Men need brothels

My grandmother ran a brothel in Sherbrooke
how embarrassing

I do think that rapes
out on the streets, would go up

everybody has to find their twin soul...

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theREALfajita3
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 01:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think what people choose to do (the man wants to get off? if he doens't get it there it will be somewhere else, an affair that could ruin a marraige!) is fine. As long as there is none of this pimps beating up girls who don't make enough money (because that does still happen and mighty frequently down here in West Palm Beach/Riviera Beach) Guns are not our only problem. However, I myself have worked for the legal businesses and never got trouble or hurt. It's the street that'll kill ya and not look back!

------------------
Bless you

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Planet_Soul
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 02:21 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmmm


How odd to run into this... Earlier I ran into a website about "mail order" brides from other countries. Most of their ads are disturbing with propaganda against "feminist" "western" women while promoting foreign women as "traditional" and "emotionally supportive". Wow. My curiousity piqued, I scanned the site and found a forum based on the experiences of men who have gone to some of these countries. A theme emerged (from my perspective) of most men expressing that the women in foregin countries idealize them for being "American" were an American woman wouldn't give them a second look. To generalize, do these men seek out women to further their self-esteem? ..... Anyhow, my conclusion is if they ban the oldest profession here, these men will likely seek their entertianment in other countries.

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pinkfairy
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 04:42 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
women need
brothels
men need
a good
cooked
meal
inside
them
and a
good
mummy of
course!

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 09:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pinkfairy

you are being an ars, and playing head games
waiting in line for a BJ in one topic
and then doing the opposite here IAN
play FAIR

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pinkfairy
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 10:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oooo

Miss L
temper
temper

and should
that not be
play
fairy

pink
of course

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pinkfairy
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 10:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and
if you
wish
to obtain
your
masters

you really
will
have to
work on
that
e.g.o.
of yours

long
way
to
go
L

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted December 28, 2005 11:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, and I've always found the hardest road so fulfilling...

My temper is in control and so is my ego
you'll kNOW
when they are not
for WOW!
it's an amazing sight!

Fright Night!

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted December 28, 2005 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know, I've got to say, I've always found it sort of irritating how these men who use prostitutes are called "johns." Why not "bills" or "freds" or something? >=(

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pinkfairy
unregistered
posted December 29, 2005 01:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a
fiery
one
flower?

johns?

we shall
refer
to
them
as
"lennys"
to
save
your
feelings

dear john

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted December 29, 2005 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why thank you, Mr. Pinkfairy.

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WaterNymph
unregistered
posted December 29, 2005 07:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Children? Hmmm I guess they don’t want old ladies.

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pinkfairy
unregistered
posted December 30, 2005 05:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
O

Johnny

one of
the
more
evolved
conrnflakes
I
would
say

so
why
are
you
here

strange!

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Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted December 30, 2005 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aww, RD - *Pinkfairy*...

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LibraSparkle
unregistered
posted January 09, 2006 01:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If there were ever a vote (which I highly doubt there ever will be) to legalize prostitution, I would vote in favor of legalizing it.

Why must we fill our prisons and jails with people who have committed minor crimes?

Why must a rapist or child molester go free to make room for a small time pot dealer, a pimp, a prostitute or a lenny ~ ?

Our prisons are filling up with people who have no hope to ever be rehabilitated. These people will never be able to be functioning members of society. We stick them behind bars and try to forget about their existence.

It's wrong. Just wrong.

We really need a Revolution!

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted January 09, 2006 01:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Evolution

Revolution!

Revelation!

Elation

Oh my...

getting carried away...

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 1120
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 09, 2006 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. As long as men are going to have errections there will be someone there to accommadate. I say legalize it (like here in Nevada) And test the girls often.

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LeoSweetHeart
unregistered
posted January 11, 2006 06:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I disagree that men need prostition or that rapes would increase without it. In a pysch class I learned rape is based less on sexuality than on aggression. This was discovered when men were treated for different sexual abnormalities with anti- testosterone treatments. Pedifiles, exhibitionists, voyuerists (out of ordinary) all could be cured by this treatment, but rape offenders were not. It was found that the rape offenders had a much more violent nature (though thats kind of obvious). So if thats the case why would we worry about creating more rapist out of men by closing down prostitution. If some clients posses this rapist aggression, then shouldn't we protect the prostitutes and sex slaves against them too?
Also why let men off the hook that easy to say they need prostitution. No man I know does. Some men are shy with women and can't flirt very well. Some men are extremely unattractive and have a very difficult time getting dates. Shouldn't the shy ones learn to come out of their bubbles a little, or use an online dating service to become more acquanted with a women? Shouldn't the unattractive ones try to improve their appearance or find another unattractive woman. Then theres old men who want young women... This is caused by their own obsession with youth. I have the most difficult time with this type because they are fully aware most young women wouldn't desire them. These men truly objectify women. They don't care if the women want them or are happy with them. They don't care about who the girls are. All they see is their youth. I think thats why I really hate when old men gawk at me, much less any man. Sorry but I refuse to make an excuse for these sorry saps. Why make it so easy for all these men to just go and buy a girl that they don't have to ever know anything about or care about. Why let them make women sex objects because they can afford to? I know there are other kinds of men as well with many stories as there are many kinds of women.. Thats why I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. To me its all about the individual case.

Maybe if its legalized, there could be a better watch on which girls become prostitutes. Reading that the average age of the girls who entered the industry (some by FORCE) is 13 years old was breathtaking. 13 YEARS OLD!!!! Thats IS just "pure evil" for real! And to hear of pimps beating these women/girls is sooo horrible. Doesn't anyone find that sh*T disturbing?? In this case the young women are victims to the pimps and "johns" and I believe they should be targeted.

I know there are also women who are consenting adults, that enter the prostitution industry because they make so much money from it. More money than they could make in the "real" world, especially without college degrees. I obviously don't feel we need to protect these women from their greed (not all cases) and lack of self respect (my opinion), however where do you draw the line between naive girl and consenting woman? That is my question. Is she a consenting women if she was introduced to the industry at a young age and taught it was okay to be used this way, so she grows older and more tolerant of it? Or is she a consenting women if her father or brother molested her at a young age, teaching her its normal? Does she deserve to be left to her own ignorance then?

I think certain prostitutes and clients are on the same level of maturity and indifference, but how often does this happen? Is it worth sacrificing our innocent children for? That to me, is a question worth asking.

Believe it or not I'm open to hearing what others think about this. Its a subject that does really pull at my heart strings because I know some of these women really are victims, but I know there are other sides too. I'd like to see others responses as well..

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 1120
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 11, 2006 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No offense Leo Sweetheart,

But do you honestly think men talk about their exploits with prostitutes with their wives or girlfriends? They don't its just a physical release. Could be fantasy, Also its one way of doing the business without someone wanting a commitment. Don't think your man, husband, uncle or dad doesn't do it? Maybe not but you'd be surprised how many do.

Come on 13 is ridiculous, if prostitution was legalized it would be with adults. Rape is not about sex, its about degradation and power, and if not criminal its called a fetish.

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LeoSweetHeart
unregistered
posted January 12, 2006 05:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No offense taken Lalalinda. I said that maybe it would filter who would be allowed to be prostitutes, like 13 year old girls, if it were legal. My main concern is the yong victims of it. Also I know rape is not sexual, thats what I was implying.

I honestly don't know of any men who even find the idea of prostitution appealing. Then again, I obviously can't get very personal about it with some of them. And how would I know just how many men do go to prostitutes? I don't. But I do know men who have said without reason (as in they had no pressure to say otherwise) that they think its sad or wrong or something along those lines. To me they men that think with the right head and heart.
Also if men want sex without commitment, they can find that without buying it. Come on there's even those sex hookup websites now and look how many people go home together in clubs. To buy a girls body is about as impersonal as you can get. But thats not what concerns me, to each their own. What bothers me is that these men who purchase women don't even care where they came from and how they got to be prostitutes or that there is only one sided desire. This may be a fantasy, but when it becomes reality it affects all participants involved, not just the man.

I still don't know where I stand on whether it should be legalized. It might help the younger girls get out of it if is. I was glad to hear that people are finally opening their eyes to what snakes some pimps are. Again if it is legalized, I would hope abusive pimps would be held accountable or that there wouldn't have to be pimps at all.

I'm just a sensitive, romantic girl at heart, so prostitution turns my stomach in general. I do get emotional when I hear about what happens to some of these girls, so I really wish it just didn't exist so there would be no possibility of that kind of corruption. But since it does exist and some women really do consent, legalizing it might be the best solution for making it at least safer and cleaner for everyone who profits from it.

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beebuddy
unregistered
posted January 12, 2006 11:13 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you guys honestly see a HUGE philosophical difference between a woman who marries a rich man, not out of love for him but for the money or oppurtunity he brings her and a street hooker? Of course a man can do this to a rich woman too.

Anyway, being in a higher social class is the only difference (which isn't really a difference) IMO.

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 1120
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 12, 2006 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no because they're both getting what they want, rich men understand this and pay anyway, they get a beautiful trophy. Men have this block, the more they pay, the more its worth.

Ahhh I'm glad I'm a woman

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beebuddy
unregistered
posted January 12, 2006 01:27 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And how exactly is that diffrent? Keep in mind I'm not talking about "trophy wives", that's a different concept altogether. The gal can be uglier than my foot.

The John wants sex, he gets what he wants, the hooker wants money, she gets what she wants.

I'm not talking about sex slaves here (that includes slaves to pimps).

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beebuddy
unregistered
posted January 12, 2006 01:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The loveless wife gets money, she gets what she wants, the loveless husband gets sex, he gets what he wants. I see no difference.

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