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Author Topic:   Getting the Job Done in Iraq
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2006 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course, you would never hear that from the radical leftist press, 71% of whom self identified as being against the war in Iraq.

So, what you see and hear from the radical leftist press are stories they trolled for to find Iraqis who would denounce America, denounce Bush and tell their tales of hatred. Neither is it ever mentioned the people talked to or photographed are members of the insurgency or al-Queda or the figures of injured or dead civilians came from a Baathist hospital, doctor or member of the insurgency or terrorist organization. The press is busy attempting to shape public opinion.

Another reason only 21% believe all or even MOST of what's reported in the NY Times..and other radical leftist press outlets.

'Job Is Getting Done' in Iraq, Despite US Press, Veterans Say
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
March 10, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - A group of veterans from Operation Iraqi Freedom said Thursday that U.S.-led coalition forces are getting the job done when it comes to defeating insurgents and helping Iraq establish a democratic government -- despite the U.S. news media's negative portrayal of the conflict.

"I am not here to debate the choices that were made, only to tell you that today, the job is getting done" in Iraq, Marine Corporal Richard Gibson said during a news conference hosted by the conservative group America's Majority at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

Gibson based his optimistic assessment of the situation in Iraq on several factors, including the strength of coalition forces. "The old Iraqi army was no match for what we, the Marines, had to offer and neither is the insurgency," he said.

However, "we were not there as conquerors but as liberators," Gibson stated. "That was our mission."

Gibson also pointed to what he called two "tipping points" in the ongoing conflict that took place during 2005. "These junctures are decisive indicators of coalition victories over the insurgency," he said. "Most Iraqis understand them, but most Americans do not."

The first "tipping point" occurred last March, when the number of Iraqi security forces on the ground surpassed those of coalition troops, he said. Then on Dec. 15, Iraqis elected their first national four-year legislature with a turnout that was impressive even in the central and western areas of the country, where rebels are the strongest.

"This obviously strengthened the government, but more subtly, it splintered the insurgency," Gibson asserted, noting that the two primary insurgent groups - leftovers from the Baathist Party of former dictator Saddam Hussein and members of the terrorist al Qaeda network -- have different political goals.

"The Baathist diehards simply want power. They hope to wait the coalition out; then re-assert their traditional dominance over the Shi'a and the Kurds," he said. "But al Qaeda in Iraq wants an Islamic theocracy.

"As long as the coalition remained the primary target, the Baathists and al Qaeda could operate together, but that has changed with the growth in the numbers and confidence of Iraqi security forces," Gibson added. "The insurgents are no longer dealing with an occupation army but with the forces of an elected government -- and these forces are extremely popular."

Gibson found another sign of progress in Iraq in an unlikely place: the daily death toll in that nation.

Human rights organizations that have counted civilian deaths in Iraq since January 2003 estimate that between 25 and 28 people are killed each day, he said. While that total may sound horrific to Americans, it is a huge improvement over the 70 to 125 deaths that took place daily when Saddam Hussein ruled the country.

"A lousy day under the coalition yields a body count far under the Baathists," Gibson stated. "In Baghdad today, terrorists may kill you with an ill-timed IED (Improvised Explosive Device), but the Baathist secret police no longer comes to your door, takes your relatives, puts them in a cell, tortures them, kills them and then bills you for the bullets."

Also, American casualties are declining as U.S. troops are withdrawn and Iraqis step up to defend their country, Gibson said. "According to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, U.S. military deaths declined from 714 in 2004 to 673 in 2005. The number of U.S. wounded declined from 7,990 to 5,639. That's a 27 percent decrease in U.S. casualties over a one-year period.

"And this year, U.S. casualties are running 62 percent lower than 2005," he added.

Richard Nadler, president of America's Majority and host of Thursday's news conference, agreed with Gibson's analysis of the Iraq war.

"In both tactical and strategic terms, coalition troops and Iraqi patriots are winning the war," Nadler said. "A terror-sponsoring, totalitarian apparatus state is being replaced, piece by piece, by the elements of civil society -- free speech, free association, democratic elections and a market economy.

"And if the press will not report it, then the men who accomplished it will," he added.

The news media's depiction of events in Iraq was the focus of another speaker at the event -- J. D. Johannes. The Marine sergeant noted that the history of wars is usually told by the victors, but the story of Iraq "is being written by the losers."

Johannes, who has served as both a soldier and a reporter in Iraq, said that the terrorists' main battlefield is America and to win here, they need help from an unusual ally: the U.S. news media.

One method insurgents use to manipulate reporters is to intimidate them into staying in their hotels, he said. Unwilling to risk venturing out into combat, the journalists are forced to rely on local "stringers," who often pass along hearsay or propaganda instead of confirmed facts.

Johannes cited the example of a minor battle that lasted only 30 minutes but was reported as a major conflict that caused high coalition casualties. The general who was involved in the fighting later said that he and his forces had been victorious on the ground, but the terrorists "had won it on CNN."

Nadler said that such instances of lazy or inaccurate reporting are what led his organization to initiate its "War on Words Project" to help veterans get out the message about "the war they, along with Iraqi patriots, were clearly winning," even though it is regularly portrayed by the news media "as a quagmire or another Vietnam."
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200603\POL20060310b.html

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 10, 2006 01:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well that's good news..perhaps my outlook just wants to see the positive..
many times I have seen people here write..
Don't feed the trolls..
the negativity..well all this focus on the negative will bring negative, right?

So if we focus on the positive..we will bring positive..

Jwhop, thanks for positive news..

I do acknowledge the negative..and focus on the positive..

Sending EveryOne Lots of Love. ...

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2006 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice post jwhop ... it's great to see something so positive (since we knew it was actually what was going on in the first place) versus the negative all the time.

I have spoken with vets as well as former contractors that have returned from Iraq and I always hear the same thing. Most want to return because they believe in what they are doing. I have yet to hear how much they hated being out there or how the people hated them.

One was a guy that I never really cared for, but he did provide information about how things had changed for the better from the time he arrived (he's a private contractor - security- and arrived in Iraq 2 years ago). He said that the schools, roads, electricty, standard of living, is 500% better than when Saddam ruled.

No one really hears that part of the story. I guess that doesn't really sell news or ad spots on the news channels. We seem to be a country that wants to thrive on the negative, or so a small contingency would have us believe. LOL....

Thanks again for the good news!!!

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted March 10, 2006 07:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure plenty of Americans have good intentions and want to see Iraqis liberated. But How can Iraqis be liberated to live peacfully in Iraq if they've been killed by American weapons, air strikes, etc? Also there are many Iraqi civilians who believe their country is being occupied not liberated by the US and are fighting for their homeland, like any other person would do if their homes and family are being destroyed. Are they terrorists and Saddam sympathizers?

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 10, 2006 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is interesting isn't it lotus and Pidaua to get first hand reports from Iraq from military personnel and others who have been there, in the streets, in the rebuilding effort and in the battles against those opposing the will of the people.

On the other hand, we have the press, hell bent on negative reporting of events to give the terrorists a victory they can't win on the battlefields in Iraq.

quote:
Are they terrorists and Saddam sympathizers?

In a word, yes. Those fighting against the legitimate government of Iraq are terrorists. They are the very definition of terrorists...those who make war on a civilian population to achieve a political end. And it doesn't make a dimes worth of difference if they are homegrown Saddam supporters, al-Qaeda, homegrown members of a clerics personal militia or any other. They are terrorists.

The people of Iraq have spoken clearly in the way that counts, they voted in free elections for the representatives of their choice. They voted in high numbers, something around 70% of those eligible to vote, which was most of the adults. They voted, even in the face of threats against their lives. They walked to the polls, sometimes long distances and they stood in long lines, sometimes for hours to vote.

They have chosen their own way and though it won't be our way and they won't be democrats or republicans, we need to support their courage and give them a chance to make their own way.

There is not one excuse to be made for anyone to say the terrorists are freedom fighters attempting to throw the occupiers out. They are fighting against the legitimate government of Iraq, against the interests of and will of the vast majority of Iraqi citizens.

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DayDreamer
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posted March 10, 2006 08:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aren't there first hand reports from military personnel who've been in Iraq who feel otherwise?

There are many Iraqis who believe the US is a terrorist who forced themselves in their homeland. Is the US not "those who make war on a civilian population to achieve a political end."

Who really is the legitimate government of Iraq? And of course they've voted...they want the occupation to end and life to go on. I hope they continue to be able to freely elect whom they choose instead of having American agents ruling them.

I hope they are capable of making their own way after the invasion.

In your eyes people who want the occupiers out are terrorists, in their eyes they believe they are freedom fighters. Just as you think the US fights for freedom, many think the US are terrorists. Give these people the ability and they would have overthrown Saddam and his regime themselves with far less destruction. Anyways what's done is done. I hope things will get better in Iraq.

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 10, 2006 08:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
they want to feed the trolls the doom and gloom, the good stuff is boring..I spoke to a friend today that has a brother in the military there..things are looking better!
Yippee! Hooray!

for the U.S.A. hehe, amd the whole World too!

Mwah!

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted March 10, 2006 08:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lotus that's very ignorant of you to try to omit all the "doom and gloom" like the countless casualties and destruction of infrastructure. Unfortunately, the world, and particularly America is not any safer than it was before the Iraq invasion. So I can't see any need for naive and premature "Yippee Horrays"

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 10, 2006 09:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am sorry you see it that way..I am not feeding th enegative is all.. I do acknowledge all the bad, and pray and send Love and Light..that is all I can do at the moment..

and focusing on the bad is getting us nowhere, if you haven't notice, we've been at this for days, and have not moved forward...hmmmm
something to ponder. ...

Sending EveryOne Lots of Love..

P.S. Thanks for your judgement..

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 10, 2006 10:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
P.S.S. I had to come back and say..that yes we have moved forward, but in the most subtle way..The Universal Laws are very simple..it is we that complicate them. ...

Love and Respect to ALL..

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TINK
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 09:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Daydreamer, do you think that the freedom fighters/terrorists believe the current Iraqi government is illegitimate? I'm thinking of the ever increasing attacks on Iraqi government officials, police officers, and military. I can't get the Ramadan attacks on military recruits out of my head. So awful.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 09:54 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey, TINK - Have you seen this episode of Frontline?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/insurgency/

You may even be able to watch the entire program on-line (depending on internet traffic and your connection).
Very interesting stuff.

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 11:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
perhaps we can all agree..that war is never good..and it is gruesome. ...
reality

Sending EveryOne Lots of Love..

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TINK
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 11:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Incredible. Thanks.

How complicated it all is! So many factions. And how easily I forget that. Neither label - freedom fighter or Saddam sympathizer - cuts it with me.

The mother and son and the old man in Tal'Afar. And the poor Yemeni man who thinks that thoughts of his family and home were the devil's temptation. Good Lord.

I didn't find much in the way of sane and logical reasons for this insurgency though .... not even much in the way of old fashioned nationalism. Unless you count a general Arab dislike of anything remotely western as nationalism, and I suppose in a way it is.

I'm still not convinced we needed to go in the first place, but we certainly can't leave. What an infernal mess.

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DayDreamer
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posted March 11, 2006 01:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course neither label fits with you Tink. I'm saying Iraqis, whether Sunni and Shia never invited the US to invade and destroy their land. America is known for playing dirty. And they don't believe that America is there to liberate them.

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 01:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lotusheart, no problem for the judgements. I call it like I see it. Hope you benefitted from it

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 02:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DayDreamer,

Have you been there and actually talked to any of them?

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TINK
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 02:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I understand that the majority of Iraqis didn't invite the Americans in. Althought the Kurds certainly did. Saying "america is known for playing dirty" is a little one-sided. Please point out a government above reproach. Saddams? Would an Al-Qaeda run government play fair?
But why are the insurgents killing off their own police forces and army? What's the point?

Did you watch the video, btw? It really is interesting.

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LibraSparkle
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 02:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I don't believe America is there to liberate them either. I think America is there to impregnate them with corporations. Although, the troops that are there, I have no doubt, believe they are there to liberate.

While this doesn't make the impregnation acceptable by any means... at least the boys and girls doing the dirty work have the best of intentions at heart.

Tink, you make a good point... I can't think of a government that is above reproach. IS there a government that can be accused of playing fair... especially when there is war concerned?

Now... I need to watch the video.

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 02:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lotusheart, I have Iraqi friends.

Tink, Well Kurds weren't spared during the Invasion either. You do have a good point that no government is about playing dirty. Neither Saddam nor Al Qaeda are above it. But my point is the US isnt either. And the Iraqis don't need another dirty player in the mess. The insurgents think that the police forces and army are now American agents.

I'll watch the video when I get home later.

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 02:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DayDreamer, wow! really, could you please share what they think right now, and what is happening..
I really do want to understand..

Lots of Love

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 11, 2006 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A more pertinent question is why are insurgents..read that terrorists, deliberately targeting and killing Iraqi civilians?

It makes no sense to claim Iraqis see the Iraqi military and the Iraqi police as agents of the United States. They're all Iraqis.

It is a nice excuse for them to continue their terrorist activities, however.

I'm not much into moral equivalence arguments. Especially when murderous regimes like Saddam's, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are on one side of the equivalence argument.

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DayDreamer
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posted March 11, 2006 04:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lotusheart, for some reason I get the feeling you are being sarcastic and don't really care what Iraqis really think about the invasion and occupation. For one thing, all the Iraqis I know never wanted the coalition forces in there to begin with.

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DayDreamer
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 04:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
A more pertinent question is why are insurgents deliberately targeting and killing Iraqi civilians?

That's a good question. Initially the different insurgent groups were all focused on targetting the coalition forces. But now as it looks like coalition forces may be pulling out, anarchy and civil war are beginning to escalate. Sorta akin to the American civil war...weren't they all Americans?...except they didnt have anyone invade, destroy and occupy their land.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted March 11, 2006 05:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
It makes no sense to claim Iraqis see the Iraqi military and the Iraqi police as agents of the United States. They're all Iraqis.

That statement doesn't even begin to gel, jwhop.
How did the French view those of their own countrymen who acted under the auspices of Nazis?
How did more extremist Jewish factions of the time view Herod but as a puppet of the Romans?
How has or does almost any people that see themselves as occupied view those who work with those they view as their occupiers?
Sympathisers and collaborators and stooges, all - at least to those on the other side of the equation.

And, please note, I am not using this as a justification of their attacks.
It is rather, simply, an explanation.

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