posted June 05, 2006 10:37 AM              

Of course Jwhop and Pidaua will probably say that the news media shouldn't be telling the U.S. citizens these kinds of things as it is only designed to make the military look bad and we shouldn't have our "beautiful minds" wasted on such things. After all, the military and Bush's image is of course much more important than these Iraqi babies were. I wonder if the $2,500 military pay off for the death of each family member would make having a bullet put in the head of one of their babies any easier for them. If the "terrorists" did this to an American child they would be screaming about how evil and barbaric they were.

Official Version Is at Odds With Evidence

Correction to This Article
A June 4 article misattributed a quotation about the reaction to a March briefing in the Office of the Secretary of Defense on the findings of a military inquiry into the killings of civilians in Haditha, Iraq. The person who said it was "really, really bad ¿ as bad or worse than Abu Ghraib" was not Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld but one of his aides, according to a Pentagon official.

By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 4, 2006; Page A01

At 5 p.m. Nov. 19, near the end of one of the most violent days the Marine Corps had experienced in the Upper Euphrates Valley, a call went out for trucks to collect the bodies of 24 Iraqi civilians.

The unit that arrived in the farming town of Haditha found babies, women and children shot in the head and chest. An old man in a wheelchair had been shot nine times. A group of girls, ages 1 to 14, lay dead. Everyone had been killed by gunfire, according to death certificates issued later.

The next day, Capt. Jeffrey S. Pool, a Marine spokesman in Iraq, released a terse statement: Fifteen Iraqis "were killed yesterday from the blast of a roadside bomb in Haditha. Immediately after the bombing, gunmen attacked the convoy with small arms fire. Iraqi army soldiers and Marines returned fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding another."

Despite what Marine witnesses saw when they arrived, that official version has been allowed to stand for six months. Who lied about the killings, who knew the truth and what, if anything, they did about it are at the core of one of the potentially most embarrassing and damaging events of the Iraq war, one that some say may surpass the detainee abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison.

The Marine Corps is saying only that it would be inappropriate to comment while investigations are underway. But since that Saturday afternoon in November, evidence has been accumulating steadily that the official version was wrong and misleading. The more military investigators learned about what happened that day in Haditha, the more they grew disturbed.

On Nov. 29, the Marine unit in question -- Kilo Company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment -- had a memorial service at a Marine base for Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, a well-liked 20-year-old from El Paso, Tex. He was killed in a roadside bomb explosion that appears to have been the trigger for what looks to investigators like revenge shootings of Iraqi civilians. Lance Cpl. Roel Ryan Briones said that Terrazas had been "like a brother to me." Staff Sgt. Travis Fields, Terrazas's platoon sergeant, called him "a man of heart." Not long after the bodies were discovered, Maj. Dana Hyatt, a Marine reservist whose job in part was to work with the civilian population when damage was inflicted by the U.S. military, paid out $38,000 in compensation to the families of the 15 dead. The Iraqis received the maximum the United States offers -- $2,500 per death, plus a small amount for other damage.

Kilo Company did not dwell on what happened Nov. 19. Mike Coffman, who was a Marine Reserve officer in Haditha at the time, recalled that another officer, telling him about the incident, "indicated to me that he thought from the beginning that it was overreaction by the Marines, but he didn't think anything criminal had occurred."

When the Haditha city council met in January for the first time in many months, "none of them [Iraqi members] ever raised it as an issue," said Coffman, who attended the meeting. Rather, he said, they complained about how car and truck traffic in the area had been shut down after two Marines were killed at a checkpoint bombing.

That same month, a top military official arrived in Iraq who would play a key role in the case: Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, the new No. 2 military officer in the country. He is an unusual general in today's Army, with none of the "good old boy" persona seen in many other top commanders. He had praised an article by a British officer that was sharply critical of U.S. officers in Iraq for using tactics that alienated the population. He wanted U.S. forces to operate differently than they had been doing.

Not long after Chiarelli arrived in Baghdad, an Iraqi journalism student gave an Iraqi human rights group a video he had taken in Haditha the day after the incident. It showed the scene at the local morgue and the damage in the houses where the killings took place. The video reached Time magazine, whose reporters began questioning U.S. military officials. Pool, the Marine captain, sent the reporters a dismissive e-mail saying that they were falling for al-Qaeda propaganda, the magazine said recently. "I cannot believe you're buying any of this," he wrote. Pool declined last week to comment on any aspect of the Haditha incident.

But Army Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a more senior spokesman in Baghdad, notified Chiarelli of the questions. The general's response to his public affairs office was short: Just brief the Time magazine reporter on the military investigation into the incident that Chiarelli assumed had been conducted.

The surprising word came back: There had been no investigation.

Chiarelli told subordinates in early February he was amazed by that response, according to an Army officer in Iraq. He directed that an inquiry commence as soon as possible. He wanted to know what had happened in Haditha, and also why no investigation had begun.

Army Col. Gregory Watt was tapped to start an investigation and by March 9, he told Chiarelli that he had reached two conclusions, according to the Army officer.

One was that death certificates showed that the 24 Iraqis who died that day -- the 15 the Marines said had died in the bomb blast and others they said were insurgents -- had been killed by gunshot rather than a bomb, as the official statement had said. The other was that the Marine Corps had not investigated the deaths, as is the U.S. military's typical procedure in Iraq, particularly when so many civilians are involved. Individually, either finding would have been disturbing. Together, they were stunning.

On March 10, the findings were given to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Gen. Peter Pace, the first Marine ever to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Rumsfeld told aides that the case promised to be a major problem. He called it "really, really bad -- as bad or worse than Abu Ghraib," recalled one Pentagon official. On March 11, President Bush was informed, according to the White House.

At the Marine Corps headquarters, there was "genuine surprise at high levels," said an Army officer who has been working with the Marine Corps on the case. "It caught a lot of people off guard."

That weekend, almost four months after the incident, "we went to general quarters," recalled one Marine general, using the naval expression for the call to arms. The following Monday, March 13, Marine officers began briefing key members of Congress on defense-related committees. Their message was succinct: Something highly disturbing had happened in Haditha, and its repercussions could be serious. The alacrity of the Marine response surprised some of Rumsfeld's aides in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. OSD, as it is called at the Pentagon, told the Marine Corps a few days later not to say anything to anyone about the investigation, recalled the general. Too late, the Marines responded, we've already briefed Capitol Hill.

The Marines began their own investigation almost immediately, following up on Watt's inquiry, but quickly realized that to credibly examine the acts of their top commanders in Iraq, they would need someone outside their service. The Army offered up Maj. Gen. Eldon A. Bargewell, a career Special Operations officer who first saw combat as a sergeant in the Vietnam War, to look into the matter. The Marines, who are part of the Navy Department, also turned over the question of criminal acts to agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. Notified on March 12, the NCIS immediately sent a team of three Iraq-based investigators to Haditha, one of the most violent areas in Iraq. A few days later, as the scope of the case sank in, it dispatched a team of reinforcements from the United States.

But even then, nothing had been made public about the November event that might have distinguished it from Iraq's daily bloodshed. Then, on March 19, the Time magazine article appeared. "I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head," the magazine quoted Eman Waleed, 9, as saying. Most of the victims were shot at close range, the director of the local hospital told Time.

The first public indication that the military was taking those allegations seriously came on April 7, when Lt. Col. Jeffrey R. Chessani, a reserved, quietly professional officer from northwestern Colorado, was relieved of command of the 3rd Battalion of the 1st Marines, Kilo Company's parent unit. Also removed were two of his subordinates -- Kilo's commander, Capt. Luke McConnell, and the commander of another company. Even then, the Marine Corps didn't specify why the actions were taken, beyond saying that the officers had lost the confidence of their superiors.

Then, on May 17, Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) let the news slip out. In the middle of a rambling statement at the outset of a news conference on Capitol Hill, he said -- almost as an aside -- that what happened in Haditha was "much worse than reported in Time magazine." He asserted that the investigations would reveal that "our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

The reporters present barely focused on what Murtha had said. When the congressman finished his statement, the first reporter asked about Iraqi security forces. The second asked about U.S. troop withdrawals. The third asked about congressional support for Murtha's resolution calling for a U.S. pullout from Iraq. Finally, the fourth asked about Haditha. Murtha responded with a bit more detail: "They actually went into the houses and killed women and children. And there was about twice as many as originally reported by Time." Even then, his comments captured little attention and were not front-page news.

It took a few days for the horror of what Murtha was talking about to sink in. "This is just My Lai all over again," Vaughan Taylor, a former military prosecutor and instructor in criminal law at the Army's school for military lawyers, said last week. "It's going to do us enormous damage."

The facts of the shooting incident seem now to be largely known, with military insiders saying that recent news articles are similar to the internal reports they have received from investigators. But considerable mystery remains about how Marine commanders handled the incident and contributed to what some officials suspect was a coverup. "The real issue is how far up the chain of command it goes," said one senior Marine familiar with the case. "Who knew it, and why didn't they do something about it?"

The Marine Corps still has not corrected its misleading Nov. 20 statement asserting that the Iraqi civilians were killed in a bomb blast. A Marine Corps spokesman didn't return calls on Friday asking why it had not.

Staff writer Ann Scott Tyson and researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

posted June 05, 2006 11:25 AM            

Yet here you are, attempting to convict them in the court of public opinion. Further, there are already several threads here about the very same story..and yet you see fit to create another headline.

What's up with you Mirandee? Are you so Anti-America and Anti-military you can't even wait for the official results of the investigation?

We know you aren't moved by any deeply held feelings of compassion Mirandee. The million or so innocent Iraqi civilians...including children Saddam killed without a peep out of you are testament to your phony compassion.

We know and it's been widely reported that Kim Jong Il has starved and continues to starve to death his civilian population, more than a million so far...yet, you are totally mute on that subject as well.

How do you and the other Toyko Rose leftists expect anyone to take you seriously when your compassion is entirely selective? Selective against the United States and the US military but totally silent against the communist dictators and terrorists who did and are doing much worse...even if the facts are determined to be that Marines opened up on unarmed innocent Iraqi civilians. Although finding those Iraqis ALL innocent is going to be a stretch...because that IED was a controlled device and someone very nearby set it off. Further, those Marines reported they were taking small arms fire...from those houses.

Communist dictators and terrorists hokey America and the US military is the message coming off radical far leftists, including you Mirandee and the traitors on the far left Toyko Rose Congressmen/women who want America to surrender to the terrorists BEFORE there is a victory in Iraq for the US, coalition forces and Iraqi government and military.

Judging by your responses to every issue raised concerning US policy, domestic and foreign, including the war in Iraq, in Afghanistan and the war on international terrorism....your beef with the US is that the government is not a communist dictatorship. Communist dictatorships which seem to suit your oh so compassionate sensibilities much more than a Constitutional Republic.

posted June 05, 2006 02:36 PM            

The daily mantra of leftists everywhere in attempts to throw the war to the terrorists, is RETREAT and SURRENDER. Reminds them so much of Vietnam they come close to wetting themselves over the idea. Not that it's a new idea for brain dead leftists, far from it.

John Murtha is their leader and is using every play in the playbook to make it happen.

But Bush isn't Lyndon Johnson who laid down like a rug for the leftists in Congress and let them micromanage the Vietnam war and choose military targets. So, if there is an early pullout of US troops from Iraq, it will be because the US Congress defunded the war, not before.

Now, Murtha is holding court in the court of public opinion; attempting to demoralize America and US military forces by issuing a guilty verdict for the Marines. For that, Murtha gets a well done from leftists.

From me, Murtha et.al., get a swift kick in their sorry @sses.

Muttering madman Murtha
Posted: June 5, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
WorldNetDaily.com

Take away a child's innocence and liberal judges and lawyers want to understand what caused you to do it. Was it your mother's fault for not breast-feeding you? Rape and kill dozens of innocent people like Ted Bundy did and the same folks want to file appeal after appeal on why your sorry life should be spared from the executioner. Come across the borders illegally and we offer you a pathway to citizenship as well as educate, feed and clothe your children. But even suggest a Marine may have done something improper, and he is guilty until proven innocent.

Just ask John Murtha.

For years while hosting a national talk-radio show, I was constantly reminded by network management that when talking about a heinous crime, I had to refer to the suspect as the ''alleged'' perpetrator and I had to talk about the ''alleged'' crime. This was somehow supposed to protect the network from lawsuits filed by the accused and to insure the ''alleged'' criminal got a fair trial. If that is the truth, you can kiss goodbye due process for the Marines now on trial in the press by the likes of John Murtha.

Murtha has found the Marines, under investigation for possible war atrocities in Haditha guilty, guilty, guilty. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? What happened to the cries of ''rule of law''? If I was one of the Marines, I would cite Murtha's comments as evidence a fair trial is impossible. Hangman Murtha has already tried the case in the court of public opinion and found them all to be guilty.

Isn't every American entitled to a fair trial? Not, apparently, if you are serving in the military. John Murtha will give everyone in the country the benefit of the doubt, except a Marine. I thought Murtha supported the troops? Is this what he calls support? He doesn't even offer Marines what a thug or common thief is afforded.

I know it is not polite to ask all these questions, so I will offer what I see at work here. Murtha is nothing more than a Democrat bomb thrower. He is out to create enough hate for the military and the war so the average American will buy the cut-and-run ideology he and his nut-job buddies embrace. He is hell-bent on doing whatever it takes to change opinion on the war in Iraq without any regard for what an early pullout would mean to America and the world.

Murtha seems filled with glee over anything that will discredit our troops. Why doesn't Murtha spend the same amount of energy talking about the 99.9 percent of the military that is performing flawlessly? Why not thank the troops as much as he criticizes? I find it hard to believe Murtha is representative of the folks in Pennsylvania. Who is he speaking for?

Answer: Moveon.org, Michael Moore and the left-wing faction of the Democratic Party who hate the military. That's for whom Murtha speaks. I guess what I find so shocking is that the left has been able to recruit a guy like Murtha to carry this banner of hate toward our military. If he were talking about O.J. Simpson prior to his trial, in this way, the media would have crucified him as a racist. If he attacked William Jefferson for his alleged corruption activities, his party leaders would denounce him. However, he attacks the military and then Paula Zahn at CNN welcomes him with open arms and all the airtime desired to spew hateful words. The New York Times will put it on the front page everyday if it attacks the military.

Note to Murtha: Keep this type of nonsense up and there may well come a day that no one in this country wants to serve in the military. Then when it comes to protecting your sorry butt you may find yourself in the same pile of doo-doo that keeps coming out of your mouth. Then again, that may be what you want. Then America will have no ability to protect itself or its people.

Cut and run seems to be Murtha's main message. We can't win so give it up and come home. Redeployment of our military assets is what he conveniently calls it. History proves cut and run doesn't work. Look at Mogadishu. We won that battle and lost 12 men in the process. One of the soldiers was dragged through the streets and President Clinton's response was to cut and run. They should have let the troops out of their liberal-installed handcuffs and allowed them be soldiers. Then the world would have thought twice about messing with us in the future. Keep in mind it was our cut and run policy in Mogadishu that emboldened Osama bin Laden to attack America. He outlined it in letters to us about how he saw our actions in Mogadishu as proof America didn't have the stomach to stay the course. A paper tiger, if you will.

Pay attention to OBL's words: ''After our victory in Afghanistan and the defeat of the oppressors who had killed millions of Muslims, the legend about the invincibility of the superpowers vanished. Our boys no longer viewed America as a superpower. So, when they left Afghanistan, they went to Somalia and prepared themselves carefully for a long war. They thought the Americans were like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world. ... As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled, and America had to stop all its bragging and all that noise it was making in the press after the Gulf War in which it destroyed the infrastructure and the milk and dairy industry that was vital for the infants and the children and the civilians and blew up dams which were necessary for the crops people grew to feed their families. "Proud of this destruction, America assumed the titles of world leader and master of the new world order. After a few blows, it forgot all about those titles and rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace, dragging the bodies of its soldiers. America stopped calling itself world leader and master of the new world order, and its politicians realized that those titles were too big for them and that they were unworthy of them. I was in Sudan when this happened. I was very happy to learn of that great defeat that America suffered, so was every Muslim.''

Cut and run in Somalia clearly encouraged the warriors of the ''religion of peace.'' Murtha must be so proud.
***BTW, thanks Commander Corruption

How about Vietnam?

Our troops could have easily won the war. We just wouldn't let them do the job they were trained to do. I have spoken with dozens of Vietnam vets who have shared the frustration of being trained to win, only to be held back by the politically correct appeasement movement in America.

I can only imagine the frustration our fighting men and women in the all-volunteer military must feel as they are kept from doing the job they volunteered to do, out of fear every move they make will be criticized by those in charge back home. It makes me sick. If there is any truth to the alleged loss of civilians in Haditha, it's probably fueled in part by the frustration of not being allowed to do the job soldiers are trained to do. You can thank the Murthas of the world for any innocent victims in Haditha.

War is hell. I'm sure if we had news cameras in all previous wars, we would be shocked by what we would see. It doesn't make it right but it does happen. When it does happen, we have a system that investigates, charges and then brings the accused to trial for a finding of the facts. After the facts are proven beyond a reasonable doubt, a verdict is rendered. If the accused are found guilty they are punished accordingly. That is how it works. It should be no different for our soldiers.

The president has stated publicly that any person(s) found guilty in this alleged incident would be punished. However, for now, if anything, we should give them the benefit of the doubt given they put their lives on the line each day for our safety. I'm sure mistakes are made and they should be addressed, but it is absurd what Murtha is doing to our soldiers. John Murtha should shut up and sit down. Allow the military to do its job. It will investigate the allegations at the highest levels and then take appropriate action.

That is what Murtha offers rapists, thieves, murderers and others who break the law. That is the least he should afford our troops. Doing so would prove to the troops he truly does support them.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50504

posted June 05, 2006 05:34 PM              

By Dahr Jamail

The media feeding frenzy around what has been referred to as "Iraq's My Lai" has become frenetic. Focus on US Marines slaughtering at least 20 civilians in Haditha last November is reminiscent of the media spasm around the "scandal" of Abu Ghraib during April and May 2004.

Yet just like Abu Ghraib, while the media spotlight shines squarely on the Haditha massacre, countless atrocities continue daily, conveniently out of the awareness of the general public. Torture did not stop simply because the media finally decided, albeit in horribly belated fashion, to cover the story, and the daily slaughter of Iraqi civilians by US forces and US-backed Iraqi "security" forces had not stopped either.

Earlier this month, I received a news release from Iraq, which read, "On Saturday, May 13th, 2006, at 10:00 p.m., US Forces accompanied by the Iraqi National Guard attacked the houses of Iraqi people in the Al-Latifya district south of Baghdad by an intensive helicopter shelling. This led the families to flee to the Al-Mazar and water canals to protect themselves from the fierce shelling. Then seven helicopters landed to pursue the families who fled and killed them. The number of victims amounted to more than 25 martyrs. US forces detained another six persons including two women named Israa Ahmed Hasan and Widad Ahmed Hasan, and a child named Huda Hitham Mohammed Hasan, whose father was killed during the shelling."

The report from the Iraqi NGO called The Monitoring Net of Human Rights in Iraq (MHRI) continued, "The forces didn't stop at this limit. They held an attack on May 15th, 2006, supported also by the Iraqi National Guards. They also attacked the families' houses, and arrested a number of them while others fled. US snipers then used the homes to target more Iraqis. The reason for this crime was due to the downing of a helicopter in an area close to where the forces held their attack."

The US military preferred to report the incident as an offensive where they killed 41 "insurgents," a line effectively parroted by much of the media.

On that same day, MHRI also reported that in the Yarmouk district of Baghdad, US forces raided the home of Essam Fitian al-Rawi. Al-Rawi was killed along with his son Ahmed; then the soldiers reportedly removed the two bodies along with Al-Rawi's nephew, who was detained.

Similarly, in the city of Samara on May 5, MHRI reported, "American soldiers entered the house of Mr. Zidan Khalif Al-Heed after an attack upon American soldiers was launched nearby the house. American soldiers entered this home and killed the family, including the father, mother and daughter who is in the 6th grade, along with their son, who was suffering from mental and physical disabilities."

This same group, MHRI, also estimated that between 4,000 and 6,000 Iraqi civilians were killed during the November 2004 US assault on Fallujah. Numbers which make those from the Haditha massacre pale in comparison.

Instead of reporting incidents such as these, mainstream outlets are referring to the Haditha slaughter as one of a few cases that "present the most serious challenge to US handling of the Iraq war since the Abu Ghraib prison scandal."

Marc Garlasco, of Human Rights Watch, told reporters recently, "What happened at Haditha appears to be outright murder. The Haditha massacre will go down as Iraq's My Lai."

Then there is the daily reality of sectarian and ethnic cleansing in Iraq, which is being carried out by US-backed Iraqi "security" forces. A recent example of this was provided by a representative of the Voice of Freedom Association for Human Rights, another Iraqi NGO which logs ongoing atrocities resulting from the US occupation.

"The representative visited Fursan Village (Bani Zaid) with the Iraqi Red Crescent Al-Madayin Branch. The village of 60 houses, inhabited by Sunni families, was attacked on February 27, 2006, by groups of men wearing black clothes and driving cars from the Ministry of Interior. Most of the villagers escaped, but eight were caught and immediately executed. One of them was the Imam of the village mosque, Abu Aisha, and another was a 10-year-old boy, Adnan Madab. They were executed inside the room where they were hiding. Many animals (sheep, cows and dogs) were shot by the armed men also. The village mosque and most of the houses were destroyed and burnt."

The representative had obtained the information when four men who had fled the scene of the massacre returned to provide the details. The other survivors had all left to seek refuge in Baghdad. "The survivors who returned to give the details guided the representative and the Red Crescent personnel to where the bodies had been buried. They [the bodies] were of men, women and one of the village babies."

The director of MHRI, Muhamad T. Al-Deraji, said of this incident, "This situation is a simple part of a larger problem that is orchestrated by the government the delay in protecting more villagers from this will only increase the number of tragedies."

Arun Gupta, an investigative journalist and editor with the New York Indypendent newspaper of the New York Independent Media Center, has written extensively about US-backed militias and death squads in Iraq. He is also the former editor at the Guardian weekly in New York and writes frequently for Z Magazine and Left Turn.

"The fact is, while I think the militias have, to a degree, spiraled out of US control, it's the US who trains, arms, funds, and supplies all the police and military forces, and gives them critical logistical support," he told me this week. "For instance, there were reports at the beginning of the year that a US army unit caught a "death squad" operating inside the Iraqi Highway Patrol. There were the usual claims that the US has nothing to do with them.

It's all a big lie. The American reporters are lazy. If they did just a little digging, there is loads of material out there showing how the US set up the highway patrol, established a special training academy just for them equipped them, armed them, built all their bases, etc.

It's all in government documents, so it's irrefutable. But then they tell the media we have nothing to do with them and they don't even fact check it. In any case, I think the story is significant only insofar as it shows how the US tries to cover up its involvement."

Once again, like Abu Ghraib, a few US soldiers are being investigated about what occurred in Haditha.

The "few bad apples" scenario is being repeated in order to obscure the fact that Iraqis are being slaughtered every single day.

The "shoot first ask questions later" policy, which has been in effect from nearly the beginning in Iraq, creates trigger-happy American soldiers and US- backed Iraqi death squads who have no respect for the lives of the Iraqi people.

Yet, rather than high-ranking members of the Bush administration who give the orders, including Bush himself, being tried for the war crimes they are most certainly guilty of, we have the ceremonial "public hanging" of a few lowly soldiers for their crimes committed on the ground. (note from Rainbow: such as Lynndie England..)

In an interview with CNN on May 29th concerning the Haditha massacre, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Peter Pace commented, "It's going to be a couple more weeks before those investigations are complete, and we should not prejudge the outcome. But we should, in fact, as leaders take on the responsibility to get out and talk to our troops and make sure that they understand that what 99.9 percent of them are doing, which is fighting with honor and courage, is exactly what we expect of them."

This is the same Peter Pace who when asked how things were going in Iraq by Tim Russert on Meet the Press this past March 5th said, "I'd say they're going well. I wouldn't put a great big smiley face on it, but I would say they're going very, very well from everything you look at "

Things are not "going very, very well" in Iraq. There have been countless My Lai massacres, and we cannot blame 0.1% of the soldiers on the ground in Iraq for killing as many as a quarter of a million Iraqis, when it is the policies of the Bush administration that generated the failed occupation to begin with.

Dahr Jamail is an independent journalist who spent over 8 months reporting from occupied Iraq. He presented evidence of US war crimes in Iraq at the International Commission of Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration in New York City in January 2006. He writes regularly for TruthOut, Inter Press Service, Asia Times and TomDispatch, and maintains his own web site, dahrjamailiraq.com.

posted June 05, 2006 07:12 PM            

Dahr Jamail is a mouthpiece for the foreign terrorists and the Saddamist terrorists in Iraq.

Easy to see when we find this little piece of terrorist propaganda dropped into his article.

The number of victims amounted to more than 25 martyrs.

Got that Rainbow...they were martyrs, terrorist talk for those who lose their lives for the terrorist cause.

Further, we find this twit...Dahr Jamail involved in the very same World Tribunal on Iraq as another lying mouthpiece for terrorists, Isam Rasheed.

Along with the communist Amy Goodman of Democracy Now, these two twits signed off on lie after lie after lie against the United States....as I documented here:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/002066.html

posted June 05, 2006 07:53 PM            

It is appalling really - how does a thread about pedophiles trying to form a political party revert to a lie about the Former President Bush? How is it a thread can be posted about a poor Soldier that had to buy his own uniform (ACU's) when the article is not at all factual. Chances are the kid used his clothing allowance on beer or something more entertaining and got stuck having to buy the ACU's.

Still... it is as if any news against the US, the war or the military comes out, no matter if it is spoken out of Osama's crooked mouth, others will believe it.

posted June 05, 2006 11:15 PM            

I'm not sure if leftists are attempting to recapture what they consider their finest hour...the sell out of the US military in Vietnam. The lying of the left including their icons, the traitors Kerry and Fonda was so pervasive that truth and objectivity got lost in the shuffle...as it is now. Whatever the public can be made to believe by the lying press and lying leftist groups is deemed by the left to be truth and reality.

posted June 06, 2006 12:03 AM              

declares.....

quote:

---

Rainbow, you need to find some sources who don't tip their hands in their rants against the US. Dahr Jamail is NOT such a source.
Dahr Jamail is a mouthpiece for the foreign terrorists and the Saddamist terrorists in Iraq.

---

Methinks jwhop, that Dahr Jamail's "terrorist sounding" name is how you determined that he is all that you say....that's called prejudice.

Would like to present some proof of your accusations against Mr. Jamail????

...and Pid (who has told me more than once that she IS NOT my friend...[oh gee, I'm all heartbroken now] ) says in reference to me (but without mentioning my name).

quote:

---

It is appalling really - how does a thread about pedophiles trying to form a political party revert to a lie about the Former President Bush?

---

Well Pid........I brought up bush Sr.'s pedophilia because I wanted to show that the dutch (as sickening as that information was) are not the ONLY ones with pedophiles who belong or want to belong to "political parties."

I believe people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones....

So don't be so ready to point fingers at other people when we should be looking in our own backyard first.....

But then...that DOES require a little humility!

Anyway, that is HOW THAT post came to be on that thread, and I'm sorry you weren't able to follow that line of thinking.

It was pretty simple - really.

....and now.....(getting out of my non-finger
pointing mode - for the moment).....

I AM GOING TO RANT!!!!!!!!!

I am ******* sick of people here
who"claim" they are "true patriots" and they "love America" (when it's nothing more than bush, cheney, and rumsfield and their insane policies they love).

These bush-worshipers are nothing more than traitors!

YES I SAID TRAITORS!

(jwhop just LOVES to use that word on any of us who DARES to say one word against the brainless shrub, but I think he might find it a bit uncomfortable to have it thrown back at him...)

They are traitors because they worhips the evil, heartless, brain-dead idiot who occupies the whitehouse and everything he says and does....in spite of all the blood on his hands and laws he breaks and gets away with....and the treasonous things he's done to this country....

I liken them to children who play "Simon Says."

....but in this case it's bush says...

.........and like mindless robots they "obey."

(because bush says)

How any person in their right mind can believe bush, cheney, rumsfield, and all those other evil beings, are solid good Americans with only our best interest at heart....is way, waaaay, beyond me....

As a rule, I don't generally like to point fingers at people here, but damn it they don't give a damn if they point them at me....they're going to get fingers pointed back at them....

posted June 06, 2006 12:54 AM            

Now, perhaps you can explain to me how someone being shot by US military forces IS a martyr...a martyr for what?

Dahr Jamail alleges these were innocent Iraqi citizens going about their own lawful business. Not jihadists fighting against the US military, coalition forces or against the duly elected government of Iraq.

So, how are they martyrs? And why use a term which the terrorists themselves use for suicide bombers and those who lose their lives fighting against the US, coalition forces, Iraqi military forces or against Israel?

Frankly Rainbow, I think Dahr Jamail is full of crap and nothing he says is to be trusted. I think that because of his association with the World Tribunal on Iraq where every conceivable lie was judged and put forth as truth by that body. BTW Rainbow, a tribunal is a court sitting in judgment of a matter. In the case of the World Tribunal on Iraq, they have no authority to judge anything whatsoever. So much hot air and all of it escaping from the wrong orifice.

posted June 06, 2006 01:49 AM              

quote:

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We know you aren't moved by any deeply held feelings of compassion Mirandee.

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You know that do you do you, Jwhop? Tell me, how do you know that? You don't even know me and those that do would laugh in your face for saying I lack compassion. My lack of compassion lead me to spend over a year of my life serving the poor, the homeless, abused women and children in shelters, and my country as a volunteer for Americorps VISTA. Your total compassion and love for this country and the military lead you to dodge the war in Viet Nam, Jwhop. Yet you sit in judgment of anyone who ever served in the war just like the ass in the White House.

Why do you insist on presenting the fact that Saddam Hussein killed "all those people" as an excuse for everything to do with this war, Jwhop?

Yeah, those babies were terrorist sympathizers, Jwhop. Actually if you listen to what all the soldiers say it was really a retaliation act because one of the most popular guys in the troop was killed in the bomb explosion.

The investigation will be just another trumped up bunch of crap like usual because we all know that Rumsfeld and Bush are not responsible for anything and neither is the military.

posted June 06, 2006 01:57 AM              

" They are terrorist sympathizers" wah wah wah

posted June 07, 2006 12:02 AM            

You are all over any alleged incident of US abuse and aren't even willing to wait for an investigation before you loudly proclaim the US military guilty. You have gone further and speculated the abuse(s) were/are part of the Bush administration's orders or lax standards.

Yet, when there are systematic genocides, systematic murder and starvation of millions by communists and an Islamic terrorist regime, you are dead silent on the issue. So, don't tell me about your compassion. Your only compassion seems to be for those you and Murtha, et.al., accuse the US military of harming or killing. Yet, not a word of compassion for the million of so Iraqi citizens Saddam killed. For some reason, they don't count in your book of compassion.

If you had ever bothered to read the Joint Congressional Resolution authorizing military use of force in Iraq, you would know that murder, torture and abuse of Iraqi citizens were specified in that Joint Congressional Resolution as a reason for removing Saddam Hussein.

If you had ever bothered to read the UN Security Council Cease Fire Resolution and/or any of the 16 following UN Security Council Resolutions on Iraq, you would know the abuse of Iraqi citizens was featured prominently as were others like support for terrorists and terrorism.

If you had listened to George Bush's speeches leading up to the war, you would know Bush talked about all that and not just WMD.

You don't know who killed those babies in Iraq Mirandee and I don't trust your mind reading act.

I had no military obligation at all during Vietnam. I was married and attending college. They never would have gotten around to me but I enlisted in the California Army National Guard and fully expected my infantry unit to be called up. I still think we would have been activated were it not for the Watts Riots....where my unit among others were patrolling the streets of South Central Los Angeles and where tensions ran high for more than a year afterward.

Bush flew one of the most dangerous figher aircraft ...dangerous to pilots...the Air Force ever put into service

None of that excuses the treason of John Kerry. Nor is anyone impressed with his nicks and self inflicted wounds...wounds which never took him off the duty rosters.

"Hello, I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty" As Kerry should have been, he was "dismissed".

posted June 07, 2006 01:56 AM              

quote:

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Now, perhaps you can explain to me how someone being shot by US military forces IS a martyr...a martyr for what?

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That pretty much sums up your intelligence and intuition, Jwhop. You just can't get past yourself and your own warped way of thinking about the world to intuit anything. What you pretty much said there is that the other side, the ones you and Bush consider the enemy, are not human beings with feelings, beliefs, opinions, families, and right or wrong causes they deem as important as Bush and your causes right or wrong, they simply are not human. So how could they possibly be a martyr if shot by a U.S. soldier? Yet I bet you "intuit" that if a U.S. soldier is shot by one of them that soldier is a martyr. Can you see how twisted, warped and truly sick that kind of thinking is? Can you intuit that? Bet not.

What a fool you are to go on believing there is such a thing as a REAL, genuine investigation in the Bush white house. There hasn't been one so far and he isn't likely to start now.

What I post here is what we won't be told by the corporate run media. However horrible the truth may be the American people have a right to know what is happening, good and bad. We cannot make judgements and base our opinions on half truths and government propaganda. If we do we end up like you and that is a fate worse than death to most open minded individuals.

Tell me, Jwhop, if those soldiers were just shooting at what they thought were insurgents or as you say, "terroists," why did all those kids and babies have gun shot wounds to the head, execution style? What do think the odds of that would be if you were shooting at random? Can't wait to hear the excuse for this one.

quote:

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You need to face facts Mirandee. Algore lost and Kerry lost. It's leftist ideas the American public doesn't buy.

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posted June 07, 2006 01:43 PM              

quote:

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Bush flew one of the most dangerous figher aircraft ...dangerous to pilots...the Air Force ever put into service

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Oh! Poor Bush Baby!

Definitely in harms way during the Viet Nam war!

How many times did he fly that plane, anyhow?

Once? Twice?

I certainly hope he wasn't in enemy territory in danger of getting shot down?

Poor baby!

Thank God we didn't lose him in that awful war....or who would we have to "president" us now?

Think of the awfful shape we'd be in today....trying hard to make it without our beloved "decider!"

Horrors!

posted June 07, 2006 02:23 PM            

quote:

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Now, perhaps you can explain to me how someone being shot by US military forces IS a martyr...a martyr for what?

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This question wasn't directed to you Mirandee. Nevertheless, I notice you didn't answer the question.

Neither did you speak to who actually shot those babies. Do you know? If you claim you do know, how do you know? Do you know because your fellow Toyko Rose leftist Jack Murtha says so? If so, how does Murtha know.
The investigation is not complete. Those bodies were buried without an autopsy so we don't...at this point know what actually killed them...or who.

You're full of hot air Mirandee. You make accusations but never provide a shred of proof...because there isn't any to back up anything you have alleged so far.

I notice Rainbow has now replied and didn't answer any of the questions either.

Leftists "I hate Bush" and their "NOT BUSH campaign is in the crapper...after it failed in California yesterday.

Leftists "I hate America" and "I hate the US Military" aren't going to win in November either.

Some democrats have been warning democrats these are not winning strategies but so far the hate filled radicals on the far left..where all remaining democrats are.... aren't listening. Continue to do so.

Most all reasonable Democrats left the party long ago. The radical leftist moveon.org people now own the democrat party...and they've said so.

posted December 18, 2006 05:11 PM            

The U.S. military plans to charge Marines in the killing of 24 civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Thursday, according to sources familiar with the case.

The November 2005 killings, which enraged Iraqis, are one of a series of cases in which U.S. service members have been accused, and some convicted, of being involved in killing Iraqi civilians.

The charges in the Haditha case could include murder and are expected against at least five Marines, defense officials said. They will be announced from Camp Pendleton, California, where the Marines are being held.

Two investigations were launched into the Haditha case -- a murder inquiry and a probe into the Marines' procedures after the killings.

Under the murder inquiry, military criminal investigators have reviewed evidence indicating Marines deliberately shot to death the Iraqi civilians, according to a Pentagon official. The investigation into the military's response found Marine officers failed to respond properly to the conflicting reports of the killings, another official said.

Defense attorneys for some of the accused Marines have said their clients followed military rules of engagement and believed they were under attack when they fired.

posted December 18, 2006 05:47 PM            

quote:

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I would like to know how anyone can justify the gunshots to the head of babies as young as 6 months to 1 year and other small children.

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posted December 18, 2006 06:05 PM            

quote:

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For all you know Mirandee, the terrorists themselves slaughtered civilians in an attempt to blame their enemy...the United States...your enemy too...for a slaughter of innocents

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Yea seriously thats not unheard of...Plus the American army isnt abusing the populations of the countries they invade HALF as much as other armies do...if it was the Iraqi army invading the U.S. u better believe that way more civilians would be murdered. The U.S. soldiers actually arent half as brainwashed as the soldiers of other nations...

quote:

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Communist dictatorships which seem to suit your oh so compassionate sensibilities much more than a Constitutional Republic

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Speaking of communist dictatorships...wouldnt everyone like to see what happens if Russians do it...u know how Russians roll..10 terrorists take over a theater with 400 hostages and demand other terrorists be released. Russian government GASSES EVERYONE...Kills 10 terrorists and couple hundred of their own ppl...you think terrorists would be inclined to attack a country willing to kill its own ppl just to prove its point...doubtful...but im sure thats way better than waging a war and giving the opposition government a chance to surrender...and promising and actual fair trial... Kids died...have u heard wat happened with the terrorist attack in Osetia in the Russian territory...cuz you know terrorists NEVER attack children right? They honorably go straight for military bases...maybe the Japenese in WW2...but sure not today

quote:

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Focus on US Marines slaughtering at least 20 civilians in Haditha last November is reminiscent of the media spasm around the "scandal" of Abu Ghraib during April and May 2004.

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Only in America ppl care about the human rights of POWs...Russians in Afghanistan had been known to torture and maim and mentally subject the prisoners to hell knows what. But everyone just waved a hand and said Hey its Soviet Union what can you do...Was wat happened in Abu Ghraib ok? Not at all...was it the end of the world? Not quite given ppl forget that this is a sovereign nation, technically it can do whatever it wants...and the fact that the people who were responsible stood trial AT ALL is a bonus to America for Human rights because any other nation would cover it up and no one would care.

quote:

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The number of victims amounted to more than 25 martyrs

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I love it such loaded language...martyrs...Jesus was a martyr...Ghandi was a martyr...MLK was a martyr...the terrorists shame the word...

Seriously people fail to see that despite wat its called this is a war. Civilians get hurt...Its sad but true...if the army isnt systematically raping thousands of women as scare tactics (Nanking, Bangladesh, Sudan, Rwanda) or rounding up random people and shooting them in the middle of the city for show, or target practice (again Japanese in China) you have to give them some credit for humanity...hasnt anyone ever heard of group think? People in groups tend to commit heinous crimes, and army is the extreme because they are usually well disciplined and brainwashed...if they arent doing that then you cant really say much against the country can you now?

quote:

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The "shoot first ask questions later" policy, which has been in effect from nearly the beginning in Iraq, creates trigger-happy American soldiers and US- backed Iraqi death squads who have no respect for the lives of the Iraqi people.

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Right well if they waited to ask questions there would be no U.S. soldiers left...who the hell waits for a person standing with a gun to ask them a question, hey are u gonna shoot me or not...u just shoot...

Those sources are LOADED with biased language...as i already pointed out thus cannot be credited. IF it uses any form of emotion drawing adjectives i.e. martyrs that arent an actual fact, you can discard the source.

posted December 18, 2006 06:13 PM            

quote:

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Methinks jwhop, that Dahr Jamail's "terrorist sounding" name is how you determined that he is all that you say....that's called prejudice.

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No that was determined by his careful choice of words...

quote:

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Well Pid........I brought up bush Sr.'s pedophilia because I wanted to show that the dutch (as sickening as that information was) are not the ONLY ones with pedophiles who belong or want to belong to "political parties."

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Actually the Ukranian Prime Minister has served a jail sentence for rape...and they fought a revolution to have him elected

quote:

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I am ******* sick of people here
who"claim" they are "true patriots" and they "love America" (when it's nothing more than bush, cheney, and rumsfield and their insane policies they love).

These bush-worshipers are nothing more than traitors!

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Exuse me...but correct me if im wrong...but how does one become a traitor by agreeing with a popularly elected government??? And isnt one more a traitor when they insult their own nation's army and support those who would shoot them on sight just because??

quote:

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jwhop just LOVES to use that word on any of us who DARES to say one word against the brainless shrub, but I think he might find it a bit uncomfortable to have it thrown back at him...)

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Right...cuz stooping to a level you yourself consider low definately makes you the bigger person...I may not agree with Jwhop's approach sometimes, BUT insulting him is a bit beneath this forum...if he insulted you perhaps you can reply without name calling for that would be the bigger thing to do...

quote:

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They are traitors because they worhips the evil, heartless, brain-dead idiot who occupies the whitehouse and everything he says and does....in spite of all the blood on his hands and laws he breaks and gets away with....and the treasonous things he's done to this country....

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Right cuz that isnt propoganda...why cant people just nicely accept the fact that not everyone will agree with you and calm themselves...freaking get a grip...

quote:

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As a rule, I don't generally like to point fingers at people here, but damn it they don't give a damn if they point them at me....they're going to get fingers pointed back at them....

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Then why break your own rules...yes thats very mature lets start the finger pointing...

posted December 18, 2006 06:39 PM            

quote:

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Dahr Jamail's name has nothing to do with my opinion Rainbow. His associations and phraseology of those who lost their lives...if they lost their lives "as Martyrs" has everything to do with my opinion he's a mouthpiece for terrorists and the old Saddam terrorist regime.

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lol i said all the above before i read your thing. Great minds thinkalike...the moment he said martyrs a red flag went of PROPOGANDA!!!

quote:

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Why do you insist on presenting the fact that Saddam Hussein killed "all those people" as an excuse for everything to do with this war, Jwhop?

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Hey the Kurds and the Kuwaitis sure were greateful...thats right Saddam gassing people wasnt murder, just U.S. fighting terrorist insurgents is...

quote:

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Every time a truth around here is spoken we get the same damn broken record, " they hate our country," " they hate the military," " they hate Bush". Wah wah wah

" They are terrorist sympathizers" wah wah wah

Talk about whiners.

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They dont whine...they shoot...

quote:

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You can't get past the labels to intuit anything.

What a fool you are to go on believing there is such a thing as a REAL, genuine investigation in the Bush white house.

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Im dying to know how that contradiction stands...cuz labeling someone a fool wasnt a label? For their belief of all things...

quote:

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What I post here is what we won't be told by the corporate run media

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I love love love when ppl claim U.S. media is censored...hey try living in Egypt/Saudi Arabia/Russia/Afghanistan...censored...thats funny...hey here is a clue a government isnt supposed to give away its secrets...thats why they are government secrets...last person who missed that point got offed by the Russians (re: Litvinenko) and guess what many think its a good thing because you dont go around blabbing...

quote:

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Tell me, Jwhop, if those soldiers were just shooting at what they thought were insurgents or as you say, "terroists," why did all those kids and babies have gun shot wounds to the head, execution style?

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I do not believe for a second that any baby was killed execution style (i.e. shot point blank with soldier knowingly shooting at a baby...thats rediculous)

posted December 19, 2006 02:03 AM              

Here's a video of the killing that other soldiers did:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=39479c5aff

You can see the guys legs move slowly after. I bet he died a slow death.

Not sure what to think.