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Author Topic:   Taking our religion back one Muslim at a time
lioneye68
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posted August 04, 2006 09:59 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Our freinds in the battle....

quote:
Taking our religion back one Muslim at a time

We believe in the re-interpretation of Islam for the 21st century where terrorism is not justified under any circumstances.
We believe in the separation of religion and state.

We believe that democracy is the best form of government.

We believe in the promotion of secularism in all forms of political activity.

We believe that equality for women is an inalienable right.

We believe that religion is a personal relationship between the individual and his or her God and is not to be forced on anyone.


quote:
Free Muslims Call for Dismantling of Hezbollah not Destruction of Lebanon
The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism calls on the United States government to take an active role in limiting the fighting in Lebanon to Hezbollah and for Arab governments to demand that Hezbollah be dismantled.

Several days ago the Hezbollah militia attacked the Israeli military and kidnapped two soldiers hoping they can exchange the soldiers for Hezbollah hostages imprisoned in Israel. Israel responded by attacking Lebanon’s infrastructure. Israel has destroyed oil depots, bridges, seaports, electric transformers, air port and otherwise did enormous damage to Lebanon in the hope that the destruction of Lebanon would persuade the Lebanese government to dismantle Hezbollah and replace the militia with Lebanese soldiers.

The Free Muslims have been calling for the dismantling of Hezbollah for the last three years. We recognize that Hezbollah’s loyalty is to Iran and not Lebanon. This is why Israel’s attack on Lebanon’s infrastructure rather than just Hezbollah is shortsighted, immoral and counterproductive. Israel’s fight is with Hezbollah and not Lebanon nor the Lebanese government which has no control over Hezbollah.

The irony is that Israel itself recognizes that Lebanon is too weak to control Hezbollah but nevertheless holds Lebanon liable. If Israel wants to dismantle or destroy Hezbollah Israel has to do it itself by attacking the militia directly.

Lebanon is headed by a pro-western, pro-American government that would love for Hezbollah to disappear. The goal of the United States and Israel should be to strengthen the Lebanese government not weaken it. If Israel focuses its attack against Hezbollah the Lebanese government will be in a better position to dismantle Hezbollah and control the border with Israel. If Israel continues to attack non-Hezbollah infrastructure more and more Lebanese, including the Christians, Sunnis Muslims and Druze may unite behind Hezbollah.



http://www.freemuslims.org/

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lioneye68
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posted August 04, 2006 10:26 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We can't forget our North American Muslims, who like their lives here, and couldn't imagine it any other way, and weep for their kin who are lost and mislead.

Everybody deserves freedom. Anyone who says otherwise is lieing....

Because they're afraid, or they're brainwashed.

The west is a multicultural world. Our tolerance makes us prosperous. God blesses this. Too bad if others are jealous. Maybe they need to look closer at theirselves.

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Venusian Love
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posted August 04, 2006 10:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know. I read the Koran. I find it to be kind of violent and sexist.


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lioneye68
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posted August 04, 2006 11:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True.

But it has to be interpreted within context of the social condition of time it was written.

The same could be said for the Bible, although there are differences in the level of tolerance that Jesus preached, compared to that of Mohammed. Mohammed preached love and service to others, as did Jesus. But, Mohammed's love and service was confined to fellow believers. Anyone can love their kinship. That's easy and natural. Jesus preaches universal love. Loving when it isn't easy.

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lioneye68
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posted August 05, 2006 01:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think if Muslims could start with love and tolerance within their own kind, as the Qaren tells you, the world would be on it's way to a better place. That would mean Suni's & Shi'ites learning to coexist peacefully.

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DayDreamer
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posted August 07, 2006 09:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I looked over their site...I both agree and disagree with some of their viewpoints. Maybe they hold some views because they're trying to achieve a compromise, which isn't bad.

It's also good to be critical of some practices that are used under the banner of Islam. But I noticed they're not looking at some of the wider issues that must to be taken into context.

Mostly agree with this...but there are Lebanonese that support Hezbollah...they have seats in the govt...Why's that?

quote:
The Free Muslims have been calling for the dismantling of Hezbollah for the last three years. We recognize that Hezbollah’s loyalty is to Iran and not Lebanon. This is why Israel’s attack on Lebanon’s infrastructure rather than just Hezbollah is shortsighted, immoral and counterproductive. Israel’s fight is with Hezbollah and not Lebanon nor the Lebanese government which has no control over Hezbollah.

quote:
If Israel continues to attack non-Hezbollah infrastructure more and more Lebanese, including the Christians, Sunnis Muslims and Druze may unite behind Hezbollah.

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lioneye68
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posted August 09, 2006 11:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yup...

Israel is between a rock and a hard place, and nobody seems to be able to offer any alternate strategies. But the strategy they are following, indeed leads to more support for Hezbollah, as average Lebanese cry out for vengence against the death & destruction the IDF is raining down on their country.

Yet, Israel feels they have no other options. They are certain that if they "stand down", they're just going to end up in Hezbollah's cross hairs again, when they least expect it.


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Mirandee
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posted August 09, 2006 11:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a good thing and hopefully it will do some good towards working for peace in the Middle East. It definitely shows that the majority of Muslims do not support terrorism.


quote:
Mohammed preached love and service to others, as did Jesus. But, Mohammed's love and service was confined to fellow believers. Anyone can love their kinship. That's easy and natural. Jesus preaches universal love. Loving when it isn't easy.

True but Mohammed's teachings, like Jesus', became a movement and branched out to form the basis for a new religion. Both religions are over 2000 years strong today. Islam I think, is older than Christianity.

In their time when they taught both Jesus and Mohammed were small fish in a big pond but theirs words and teachings have spanned the globe and today Islam and Christianity have the largest following of any religion in the world.

quote:
Jesus preaches universal love. Loving when it isn't easy.

Yes he did but not all of us Christians practice in our every day lives Jesus' teachings just as some Muslims don't live their every day lives following the teachings of Mohammed.

What Jesus and Mohammed taught is one thing, what we do with their teachings is another matter entirely. Just as Jesus' message has been distorted and used for evil agendas by some so has Mohammed's message. And it is easier for their followers to know what they taught than it is to apply those teachings to our everyday lives and follow them.

Especially that teaching of Jesus' regarding loving your enemies and doing good to those that do evil to you. Loving when it isn't easy. I don't see a whole lot of that practiced anywhere in the world. And I find it nearly impossible to follow myself. I'm sure that as he said it, Jesus knew we would find it impossible but he threw it out there anyway.

Regarding Hezbollah, it is my understanding from all I have read, that Hezbollah was formed after the first invasion and occupation of Lebanon by Israel. They formed to oust Israel from Lebanon and to protect Lebanon from Israel occupation. They are definitely a Lebanon based group. Not an Iranian based group. They are, however, highly supported by Iran. Which is why I have stated, along with many political analysists, that Israel's invasion of Lebanon was not due to the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers but with the intention of taking out as many Hezbollah as possible to pave the way for the U.S. invasion of Iran. Because the Hezbollah is who is going to aid Iran in any invasion.

Thanks to Israel and the U.S. Hezbollah is now the most highly esteemed and supported terrorist group in the world. We have elevated their standing and prestige. Hezbollah is praised in even non-Muslim countries now and seen as heroes for their ability to still be standing and fighting for their country against two of the most powerful nations in the world.

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Mannu
Knowflake

Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 09, 2006 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>>>> Both religions are over 2000 years strong today. Islam I think, is older than Christianity.

No no Islam is 7th or 8th century and hence more younger than christianity.

I believe that the problem with most Muslims is that they are still frozen themselves in that era (8th century) than evolving.


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carma-b
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posted August 09, 2006 01:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No Mirandee, Christianity is older than Islam. In fact Jesus is mentioned 97 times in the Quran and Muhammed is mentioned only 25 times in the Quran. In fact as stated in another thread, Muhammed in his early days of establishing Islam, went with his followers to Abyssinia, a safe and peaceful Christian country, in other words, Christianity was already established long before Islam. And I am not saying one belief is "better" than the other, just pointing out some undeniable facts.

Here read this:

HOW WAS THE QURAN WRITTEN?

Let me examine this whole proposition, Christianity or Islam, from a different perspective. Examine the Quran. Numerous passages of the so called inspired Quran originally appeared in the Old Testament, more than 1000 years, yes 1000 years, before the prophet of Arabia, Muhammad, was born.

Muhammad clearly depended upon some of the Holy Bible teachings for his "revelations." Here are a few examples: "the night of Power is better than a thousand months," Surat al Sadr 97:3. Now compare this with Psalm 84:10, "For a day in your courts is better than a thousand." Then, in Surat al Fathah 1:6, we find, "Show me your straight path." The same as "Teach me your way O Lord and lead me in the straight path," found in Psalm 27:11. Let me give a third illustration, in Psalm 37:29, "The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell in it forever" which compares with Surat al Anbrya 21:105, "My righteous slaves shall inherit the land and dwell there forever."

May I advert yet again the Quran which mentions Jesus 97 times but let me add it also mentions the New Testament characters such as Zechariah and John the Baptist, and the disciples of Jesus. This shows that Muhammad was versed in the New Testament. His familiarity causing him to adopt many passages from the Bible and insert them into the Quran.

Remember Jesus died in 30 A.D. The New Testament was written in Greek around the First Century and Muhammad was not born until 560 A.D. The question I pose is this: Was Muhammad receiving a revelation or was he taking from what he read? Was he utilizing knowledge and transposing them into the Quran?

Now, there are 131 passages in the Quran in which the Bible is referred to as The Law, Psalms, and Gospel. Further, numerous passages parallel passages in the New Testament, which is 600 years older than the Quran.

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DayDreamer
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posted August 11, 2006 12:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moses and the Judaism came before Jesus, and Jesus and Christianity before Muhammad and Islam (submission to God). (pbut)

Islam basically began in 610 AD after the first revelation was sent down to Muhammad.(pbuh)

About The Qur'an
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/QURAN.HTM
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/compilationbrief.html

These are interpretations of the history of the Quran from universities in the states.

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carma-b
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posted August 11, 2006 06:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The irony DD is that all of these religions share a common thread, they really do, they come from the same source, albeit altered and misinterpreted and then used for manipulation! So much strife and disagreement amongst their followers...Jews, Christians and Muslims....it's like that MY GOD WILL BEAT UP YOUR GOD MENTALITY...if the human race doesn't wake up to the fact that we are all different but yet the same and that we need to tolerate/embrace/ each other's beliefs, then we are all doomed for sure..there we be no victor....this is a very touchy situation here and the only way that it will be overcome is through a Higher Love...not by forcing others to live by others standards...but to let all live as they please.

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DayDreamer
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posted August 11, 2006 07:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess some could see it as irony...or maybe it's all just part of the master plan?

Does anyone care to address where the "my God will beat up your God mentality" comes from?


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O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). ~Quran 49:13

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carma-b
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posted August 11, 2006 07:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From lack of LOVE.

Period.

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DayDreamer
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posted August 11, 2006 07:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Simple and truthful answer. I hope it doesn't mean the end of this discussion.

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lioneye68
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posted August 12, 2006 12:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose it comes from the same place as all the other forms of competitiveness - the ego, specifially the id.

But, religion has an added dimension to it that is hard wired to irrationality. It requires faith, and one takes a leap of faith when one devotes theirself to any given religion. I suppose once they've made that leap, some may feel threatened by knowing that the rest of the population doesn't unnanimously agree that theirs was the right choice.

It's like saying, that by the very fact that your faith is different from mine, you are saying that my faith is erroneous. Some take that very personally, and so may insist that all others are erroneous, and in addition, may assert that all others are destined for a fate of unthinkable suffering, unless they agree that my faith is the only correct faith. In other words, an attempt to terrify people into agreeing with my faith, and then I won't have to encounter as much challenge to my own faith, if I can terrify most of the people into accepting mine over all others.

I think it comes from an underlieing insecurity about one's faith, that brings out an acute defensive reaction, because faith is so personal, and close to our ego's.

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mysticaldream
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posted August 12, 2006 08:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good point, Lioneye.

I think that is exactly what bothers me about all religions.
I can't imagine a Creator who is less inclusive and compassionate than I am. That would just be nonsense.

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lioneye68
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posted August 12, 2006 10:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It truly IS nonsense.

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Charlotte
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posted August 13, 2006 06:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel that Muslims can take back their faith from these lunatic extremists, not only can-but MUST.

carma-b- You are SO right on the mark!

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May the angel of your higher s-elf, guide you always.

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