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Author Topic:   Am I Misinformed?
neptune5
unregistered
posted November 23, 2006 11:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All i'm asking for is a firm, definite yes or no, is America a fascist nation?

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Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Sun, Pisces Moon

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 24, 2006 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think fascism is a sliding scale. Maybe people can rate us on a scale of 1-10. 10 being the most fascist.

I give us a 6. We're definitely not as fascist as Germany was during WWII. But we're definitely more fascist than some other countries such as Amsterdam or Sweden.

I don't think it's possible to give a definite yay or nay on this. The conservatives on the board will come in and tell you anyone who says america is fascist is an idiot or unpatriotic or crazy. Most likely some melange of the three. The liberals on the board will come in and tell you that America is absolutely fascist. The reasonable people will probably give you an answer somewhere in between.

It seems that facsist is kind of difficult to define and the word is now mostly used a slur to describe unjust or authoritarian governments.

Here are some wikipedia definitions:

Two particular definitions reflect the fact that Fascism has always arisen from an extreme right-wing ideology:

(1) "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." --American Heritage Dictionary (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1983)

(2) "Extreme right-wing totalitarian political system or views, as orig. prevailing in Italy (1922-43)." --The Pocket Oxford Dictionary (Oxford University Press, 1984)

A recent definition is that by former Columbia University Professor Robert O. Paxton:

* "Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."[5]

911 defintely gave the US the impetus to grow more fascist, the scape goat being the arabic world. At least there's no concentration camps of arabic people. At least none we(I) know of. There was definitely some belligerent nationalism going on for a while but it seems to have died down. It's funny how pathetically easy people are manipulated. One day you never see an American flag, the next day there's a flag flying from every car/building/pole you can see. I guess this makes people feel connected. Really it just displays how they follow herd mentality and don't question the information fed to them.


Neptune what country are you from?

PS Here's an interesting essay you open minded folk might find interesting.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3127.htm

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Motherkonfessor
unregistered
posted November 24, 2006 05:02 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BR~ great response.

Quote:

1) "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." --American Heritage Dictionary (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1983)


It's interesting to me that a "definition" which attempts to factually describe a concept like fascism leaves so much up to opinion.
The inadequecies of language...

(Now before anyone goes off the deep end, I am not saying the US is fascist... just observations here, my friends..)

".. exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right.."

Well, from what I have seen and how I have interpreted it, this could very well be accurate. Hearing the media describe liberals as "unpatriotic.. .terrorists... they hate America!" certainly paints the picture that yes, the right is in control.
Given the past years of Conservative domination of policy and the Republican control over all three branches of government, is it really a leap to say it has been a dictatorship?
After all, its not just in GU that the Democrats have been mocked as ineffectual and weak. It has been a prevailing theme in most news platforms, talk show hosts, and radio talk shows.

With the success of the Dems in these mid term elections, and in governorships, we could choose to say, "this shows we are not a dictatorship- see, we voted in the other side."
Perhaps- but that doesn't mean that any of the policies created by the right are going to change. This could just be a facade of power tossed out to appease the largely uneducated, uninterested populace.
(funny- that's exactly why the Electoral College was established- to give the illusion to the masses that the popular vote really mattered- but rather that people "in the know" would really make the decision. Oh, how precious the illusion of democracy! Our founding fathers didn't trust the pioneers and farmers to REALLY know who could best run the country!)

Sorry, off topic a bit there.

I don't believe one could answer this question with any suriety. Everyone has a different interpretation of what constitutes a "dicatorship"...some folks are comfortable with what the right stands for, and others feel better with the freedoms and ideals of the left.

Example: I could care less if homosexuals were allowed to marry. I am sure it will make for great new reality television- the genre is getting stale.
However, other people feel its an assault on the very foundations of their self-defined existence.

Who is right? I don't think there is a yes or no to this question either. Lots of opinions... whoo boy.....

Hmmm.. gee.. do you think Jupiter in Sag is getting me on this philosphical groove?

oh yeah oh yeah

MK

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Mirandee
unregistered
posted November 24, 2006 10:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BR that is an excellent response. Very well expressed.

Fascism is a sliding scale as you stated. It is so easy for any government to subtlely slide into fascism without the people even being aware of it.

All I know is that as of 2003 America met all the 14 pts. of a fascist nation. Maybe we were sliding in that direction for years without being aware of it and it just became more outwardly blatant during Bush's terms of office.

That is why over half of America is calling for change because we do not like the direction that our country is heading.

If we, the American citizens, had not restored the balance of power in this month's mid-term elections I think that in another couple of years we might have been beyond the point of no return. Because if there is not a balance of power and one branch of government and one man alone has all that power then you definitely have a fascist government.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 24, 2006 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BR said " give us a 6. We're definitely not as fascist as Germany was during WWII. But we're definitely more fascist than some other countries such as Amsterdam or Sweden."

Amsterdam is not a country sweetie... It is in the Netherlands .... Not that I can say much as I am geographically challenged for the most part . Hope your Thanksiving was filled with microscopes and panties LMAO....

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neptune5
unregistered
posted November 24, 2006 05:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks everyone for the 'slab' of information now i'm understanding it better.

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Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Sun, Pisces Moon

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