posted December 12, 2006 03:40 PM            

This dude is koo koo for cocoa puffs and anyone that takes stock in him is just as stupid. I do hope he only represents a small portion of Arabic sentiment because the way this is going folks, it ain't gonna look good for World events in the long run.

Iran defiant as anger mounts over Holocaust forum
Dec 12 9:37 AM US/Eastern

Iran has pressed on with a controversial Holocaust conference as international outrage mounted over its hosting of "revisionist" historians who cast doubt on the mass slaughter of Jews in World War II.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Tuesday slammed the conference as "shocking beyond belief", a sentiment echoed by his Israeli counterpart Ehud Olmert and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

A host of Western "revisionists" who doubt the slaughter of six million Jews in World War II took place, including a former Ku Klux Klan leader and a Frenchman given a suspended jail term in October, have taken part.

Iran said that the aim of the conference was to find answers to questions about the Holocaust from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has described it as a "myth" and cast doubt on the scale of the slaughter.

Papers delivered Tuesday by participants from countries ranging from Austria to Indonesia included "A Challenge to the Official Holocaust Story", and "Holocaust, the Achilles Heel of a Primordial Jewish Trojan".

"I think it is such a symbol of sectarianism and hatred towards people of another religion, I find it just unbelievable," said Blair. "I found that this conference that they had questioning the Holocaust is shocking beyond belief.

"If you're going to invite the former head of the Ku Klux Klan to a conference in Tehran which disputes the millions of people who died in the Holocaust, then what further evidence do you need to have that this regime is extreme?" said Blair.

Olmert led a chorus of angry condemnation from the Jewish state over the two-day meeting which started on Monday.

"The conference in Iran was sickening and shows the depths of the hatred," Olmert said, calling on the world "to disassociate itself from Iran and all the participants of the conference".

German Chancellor Angela Merkel condemned "in the strongest terms" dismissals of the Holocaust by the "revisionist" historians. In its reaction to the conference, the Vatican described the Holocaust as an "appalling tragedy to which one cannot remain indifferent."

Some of the most notorious Western figures who have downplayed the scale of the Holocaust have been attending the event, including French professor Robert Faurisson and German-born Australian Fredrick Toeben.

The conference wrapped up in the early afternoon and all of the participants, who have showered the Iranian president with praise throughout the meeting, were bussed away for a private meeting with Ahmadinejad.

In Tehran, an assistant of Toeben, who maintains the existence of gas chambers is an "outright lie", tried to show his claim using a model of the Treblinka extermination camp the researcher had brought to the conference.

"There is no scientific proof to show that this place was an extermination camp. All that exists are the words of some people," said Richard Krege.

He claimed that only 5,000 people died in the camp, of disease. Most historians believe that at least 800,000 prisoners were murdered in the camp.

The conference is the latest brush with controversy for the Islamic republic, which is already facing UN sanctions for failing to agree to halt sensitive nuclear work.

Historians specialising in the Third Reich, basing their figures on original Nazi documents, generally believe around six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, although some estimates are slightly lower or higher. Hitler's regime also killed millions of non-Jews.

It is a crime to deny the Holocaust in a dozen European countries, including Germany and Austria.

Mainstream scholars of the Holocaust meanwhile held a counter gathering in Berlin on Monday to condemn the conference, entitled "Study of the Holocaust: A Global Perspective".

US academic Raul Hilberg, the author of "Destruction of the European Jews", which is widely considered one of the standard texts on the Holocaust, said he wanted to make "a statement" by attending the Berlin conference.

The European Jewish Congress "condemned in the strongest terms" the "negationist and revisionist" conference in Iran attended by Western figures it described as "pseudo-historians and intellectuals".

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/12/061212142536.rhu8rs3p.html

Here's the big rub folks. Think about this, the loser from Iran invites a leader from the KKK. Do you see anything completely hypocritical about that? According to the KKK the President of Iran is one of the Mud people that should be exterminated. The Little Muhammed Hitler is part of a Muslim group that thinks Infidels should be exterminated.

Oh... I love when stupid racists get together.

Hell, maybe they can start the race war without us and take care of eachother's hateful ways!

~Pidaua

------------------
The democratic world believes that it is not the terrorists that are to blame, but us. Us, the westerners.
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the sooner you eliminate this misconception from your minds, the better.
We are NOT to blame. It is the freaking terrorists and the freaking terrorists only!!!! They are the bad guys. They do not understand concepts like peace, democracy, and respect for human life. They are, pure and simPle, EVIL!!!!! Behind all their political manipulations, if you carefully look at the actions of these MONSTERS, they are EVIL!!

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000489.htm

posted December 12, 2006 03:42 PM            

Iran president says Israel's days are numbered
Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:36 PM ET

By Paul Hughes

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel's days were numbered.

Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War Two as a "myth" and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map", launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state.

"Thanks to people's wishes and God's will the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want," he said.

"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added.

His words received warm applause from delegates at the Holocaust conference, who included ultra-Orthodox anti-Israel Jews and European and American writers who argue the Holocaust was either fabricated or exaggerated.

The Vatican, Germany and the European Commission added their voices on Tuesday to others -- such as the United States and Israel -- who have condemned the Tehran meeting.

Iran says it organized the conference to shed light on the reasons behind the formation of the state of Israel after World War Two and to allow researchers from countries where it is a crime to question the Holocaust to speak freely.

"Iran is your home and is the home of all freedom seekers of the world," Ahmadinejad said. "Here you can express your views and exchange opinions in a friendly, brotherly and free atmosphere."

"FACT-FINDING" COMMITTEE FORMED

He urged countries where Holocaust denial is a crime, to respect freedom of speech and not to take action against any of the conference participants on their return.

Human rights groups frequently number Iran as one of the world's worst violators of free speech, where scores of newspapers have been closed, journalists jailed, access to Web sites blocked and government critics hounded out of the country.

Delegates at the meeting earlier on Tuesday agreed to form a "fact-finding" committee to study the Holocaust.

The head of the new committee, identified as Iranian academic Mohammad Ali Ramin, said its members were "not racist or opposed to any particular group".

"Rather they are just seeking the truth to set humanity truly free," the ISNA students news agency quoted him as saying, without naming the committee members.

Robert Faurisson, a French scholar who has described the Holocaust as a "historical lie", said the committee included members from the United States, France, Canada, Switzerland, Austria, Iran, Bahrain and Syria, ISNA reported.

The Vatican called the Holocaust an "immense tragedy" which had to remain forever a warning for all people to respect the rights of others.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the Tehran meeting "shows the danger of the situation Israel is in and in particular the threat that Israel lives under."

She was speaking after meeting Ehud Olmert, who was on his first visit to Germany as Israeli Prime Minister.

Germany has made it a priority to support Israel since the Holocaust under the Nazis and the end of World War Two in 1945.

EU Commissioner Franco Frattini expressed "shock and indignation", adding: "Anti-Semitism has no place in Europe; nor should it in any other part of the world."

posted December 12, 2006 04:04 PM              

Second yes I do believe he represents a minority of the Middle Easterners, or Muslims, as whole, because like I said in the other thread, this isn't a muslim mentality its a Nazi mentality.

posted December 12, 2006 04:14 PM            

Maybe that is the fundamental difference. Most civilized people believe that religion is free and declaring a jihad on someone because they are "ELCA Lutherans instead of Missouri Synod Lutherans" is stupid.

Your second answer doesn't make sense. How many Middle Eastern people are Muslims? If a majority of the people in the ME believe this and most are Muslim, would that not mean that MOST MUSLIM's also subscribe to this view OR is it mainly a SECULAR view?

posted December 12, 2006 04:20 PM              

My ex of Mormons and Lutherans was supposed to be an example of calling a Shia a Sunni, or a Sunni a shia (confusing someones religious denomination).

Most Middle Easterners are Muslims but there are sizeable minorities of christians, druzes, ahmadis/Qadianis, Jewish minorities and other indigenous african religious minorities in countries like Morocco, Senegal, Nigeria, Djibouti and Egypt.

Most Muslims are not middle eastern. The largest muslim country in the world is Indonesia (by population) followed by Pakistan.

I am just tired of seeing incorrect terminology. One would think that five years after starting a war in the Middle East that American concepts of what these terms mean would be more clear.

posted December 12, 2006 04:22 PM              

Anti zionism is hatred against the concept that that region of land (call it Israel Palestine or the boonies whatever) is the homeland of the Jewish people and they deserve to live there, some people would add 'exclusively' to that definition.

One is a racist sentiment, the other is anti-nationalism or anti patriotic. It is state versus race , again there is a difference.

posted December 12, 2006 04:29 PM            

Let's look at it this way;

1) The President of Iran hates the Jews

2) Muslims, as a whole (which is also very evident on this forum) have a clear dislike to even a hatred for Jewish people.

3) The Iranian wingnut has voiced what many of the Muslim community have voiced throughout time - with the exception of a few sects.

I am also aware of the various religions out in the Middle East and in predominantly Arab / ME / Pakistani.. countries. I highly doubt the Christians are screaming death the Jews, let's wipe them out now. I haven't heard much from the India / Hindu communities about wiping them out.

I have heard that from Muslim communities and representatives of those communities. I have also heard "Death to the infidels".

As long as we allow this to continue we allow a new Hitler to rise up. Then the world is thrust into another World War.

This guy is trouble, those that follow his beliefs are also trouble. I just hope we don't pull the Isolationist BS here in this Country and only move to action after millions have been exterminated. Letting Saddam stay in power as long as we did was enough.

posted December 12, 2006 04:49 PM              

Second,

1. yes he does hate jews. common knowledge.

2. No Muslims as a WHOLE do not have a clear dislike for Jews. Muslims have a clear dislike for the state of Israel. I said before there is a difference, race versus nationalist thing. Muslims as a whole have no problem with Jews existing as a minority or even a majority in a country if they do not have territory that is usurped from other Muslims. Some extremist minorities within Muslims do hate Jews, like Ahmadinejad is a Muslim and does hate Jews (probably, although I dont know the guy on a personal basis). But these people are not the majority. The majority of Muslims believe that Jews are ahl al kitab and do think that the Jews that are pro-Israel are extremist.

3. How many are many in the Muslim community? For as many people as you can list that have voiced hatred for Jews, I can list more that have voiced tolerance, kindness and compassion. I have posted at least over 10 articles on this forum, where Muslim clerics, journalists or politicians have spoken out against anti Jewish sentiment , or against extremism. There are hundreds of examples but seeing that Im generally not a regular poster here and leave for long periods of time, etc. I dont post them all.

As for your statement that Christians are screaming death to the Jews, there actually is a major christian extremist group in palestine called something like the christian vanguard that is anti Israel and conducts suicide bombings. From my personal experience you will rarely see Muslims who are as Anti Israel as the Arab Christians, they are the ones who fled Palestine in huger numbers than the muslims, and they are more bitter and hatefult han the Muslims on this issue re: israel. And from the last attack of Israel on Lebanon, all the lebanese minorities have also spoken out and issued formal statements condemning the state of Israel. to assume that there is no hatred there for Jews is somewhat of a fallacious argument because where there is resentment, some hatred will grow.

another world war.... nobody including myself favors it, but when occupation and balances of power become too unequal sometimes it is a necessary evil.

yes the guy is trouble. people don't believe his bs (didnt u see the article of student protests in Iran), but when people are backed between a rock and a hard place (dislike for US foreign policy and dislike for their own crazy leaders) they will have to pick one. they generally will pick their own leader.

Once again I have posted numerous numerous articles and journals from Arabs, Persians, pakis etc. that are both muslim and christian, regarding condemnation of the extremist fringes in these countries, be they of any ethnicity or religion. There are several Muslim scholars who denounce extremism and do preach tolerance and acceptance but they dont GET media coverage. Every top university in the US has a muslim history or Islamic scholar who is probably middle eastern and does not support extremism. each single one has come out and said it, i remember seeing muzammil siddiqui, one of the most famous US muslim scholars, give a speech at the white house after 9/11 re: condemning extremism. But its never publicized. These kinds of crazy people are publicized because they rile emotions and they make more interesting headlines.

posted December 12, 2006 05:45 PM            

In the end, it is about hate- ANYONE that believe in his tacts is also about hate- pure and simple.

Merkel condemns Holocaust conference
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
herb keinon, JPost.com Staff and AP, THE JERUSALEM POST Dec. 12, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who strongly condemned the Iranian-hosted conference debating whether the Holocaust occurred, declared Tuesday that her country "will never accept this."

"I would like to make clear that we reject with all our strength the conference taking place in Iran about the supposed nonexistence of the Holocaust," Merkel said at a news conference alongside Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

PMO denies Olmert disclosed Israel's nuclear hand
"We absolutely reject this; Germany will never accept this and will act against it with all the means that we have," Merkel said.

Despite Germany's stance on the Teheran-based conference, Merkel said that as far as she was concerned there was no military option on the table to deal with the Iranian nuclear program. She said that sanctions will be discussed at the end of the month at the United Nations Security Council. Merkel mentioned German efforts to free Gilad Shalit and said that unfortunately they had not been successful.

Regarding German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier's recent visit to Syria, which listed criticism last week from Olmert, Merkel said that they were hoping to hear something constructive from the Syrians but were disappointed.

Germany will take over the rotating presidency of the European Union at the beginning of the year and Merkel said that Germany will remain steadfast behind the international community criteria for recognizing the Palestinian Authority government, and remained committed to the Quartet framework. These words come in the context of increased calls in Europe for new initiatives to move the diplomatic process with the Palestinians forward.

Olmert met with Merkel on Tuesday afternoon, following a three-hour unannounced meeting on Monday night. The Prime Minister's Office said the two had discussed Iran and the Palestinians at the Monday night meeting.

Earlier Tuesday, Olmert headed to Berlin's Grunewald train station to speak in a ceremony at Track 17, a memorial to the Jews who were deported from the train station to ghettos and concentration camps in the east, as part of an official visit to Germany that began on Monday.

"Woe to the weak and the defenseless; woe to those who do not believe those who threaten to destroy us," Olmert was expected to say in his speech - significant comments in light of the threats being heard from Teheran.

"Woe to the apathetic who don't prepare themselves to thwart every danger; woe to those who harbor false illusions…and who rely on the grace of foreigners."

Olmert was to also set to meet German President Horst Koehler later in the day.

~pidaua

------------------
The democratic world believes that it is not the terrorists that are to blame, but us. Us, the westerners.
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the sooner you eliminate this misconception from your minds, the better.
We are NOT to blame. It is the freaking terrorists and the freaking terrorists only!!!! They are the bad guys. They do not understand concepts like peace, democracy, and respect for human life. They are, pure and simPle, EVIL!!!!! Behind all their political manipulations, if you carefully look at the actions of these MONSTERS, they are EVIL!!

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000489.htm

posted December 12, 2006 05:49 PM            

"Nabil Soleiman, an adviser to the ministry of religious affairs in Syria, said, "If the Holocaust ever occurred, it was a conspiracy against the Arab-Islamic world as today the Middle East is still paying the consequences."

This is not going to turn out well at all....

posted December 12, 2006 08:02 PM            

pidaua:

Again, its all in the prespective. The world may hate Hitler for what he did and rightly so but yet there are still considerable amount of facists still in existance who still follow the same doctrine taught by Hitler or Mussolini. Hate? Sure it is. A prespective? It is that as well. They say, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

posted December 12, 2006 08:03 PM            

Now ill agree (though i dislike that you hate Israel) with SG's comment that by far not all Muslims hate Jews and its not an inherently Muslim idea to hate Jews. Muhammad (PBUH) actually had a Jewish wife and the Qu'ran speaks respectfully of the Jews and their prophets.

quote:

---

The Iranian wingnut has voiced what many of the Muslim community have voiced throughout time - with the exception of a few sects.

---

That is in fact true...he does cater to a large audience that extends beyond the Persian Gulf and outside the Shiia sect.

quote:

---

I haven't heard much from the India / Hindu communities about wiping them out.

---

Hoho...Hindu community has been in general VERY supportive of the Jews. Hindu radicals actually support Kahane's views and consider Muslims a common enemy.

Consider this site http://www.hinduunity.org/
I personally do not support their views though.

As for Middle Eastern Christians, despite years of persecution (dont even deny this my best friend is Egyptian Coptic) most stick with the Muslims against Israel simply because of nationalism and identification with the country they are in.

I find these Holocaust deniers hilariously annoying...Considering that Hitler enlisted Bosnian Muslims particularly into the SS army (there was a specific denomination for them) and held CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE ties with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who just happens to be Arafat's uncle you get assholes like that saying things like Holocaust is a conspiracy against the Arab world...right paranoia anyone? I think so...

Anyways nice talking to you guys. I find that Pid has amazing insights and knows a great deal and i just love her passion, while SG is very diplomatic and gives excellent insights. HOnestly if we all put ourselves to it i think we can do something completely unheard of and totally wild...agree on a middle point. I hope you will back me on this one Xodian. While its tough for me to look at Hitler objectively i do not deny his abilities and actual genious as a leader because it takes skill to take a country out of such debt and rags and make it into a power capable of holding of Britain and France. That doesnt mean i dont think he should rot in hell..cuz he should...so should Ahmadinejad...who is a very brilliant leader himself...

posted December 12, 2006 08:15 PM            

See? Don't fight your natural Libran urges Lol!

Though yes its hard to look at things objectively, no one ever considers the fact that Hate can be such a powerful force. Where Ghandi used the power of peace to convey his message, he might have not considered that hate is an equally powerful motivator.

Consider the developement of the Lutwaffe (The German Nazi Airforce.) From gliders to an amassed functional airforce that threatened to turn the tides in Germany's favor (if it wasn't for Churchill's decision to expand the RAF, the Battle of Britain would have been surely lost.)

To bulid such a force in complete secrecy and still have it ready and functional and ready when the time came... Brilliant. Not only that, the Lutwaffe introduced Blitzkreg tactic; Something that the allies borrowed and is still used by the world today (though now the preferd term is "Carpet Bombing.")

posted December 12, 2006 08:22 PM            

quote:

---

Ill be honest Canada is a wonderful nation, but its impossible for U.S. to win the public. Its a world power. World powers cant be loved by all...they gotta **** off someone...its the way of life. Im dying to know why should the U.S. need to prove anything to anyone...this isnt Britain colonizing another country. Please dont use Iraq as an example, its not a colonony, i think its a political mistake because Saddam would be a better leader to have than any theocracy in Iraq which would force it into Iran's shadow. Better Saddam than two Ahmadinejads. BUT like i was saying U.S. has no need to prove anything to anyone. And what annoys me is people trying to change U.S. "decadence"....hey yeaaaa so people have sex freely here...News flash they do so EVERYWHERE...well maybe not Talibal Afghanistan because that was a government that even the Saudi wahhabis called "extreme" (you gotta give them a medal for that one) but decadence and corruption is everyone. What annoys me is the holier-than-thou attitude...NOT saying U.S. doesnt have it...

---

Again you hit the nail on the head. You brought up an important point that all Republicans need to get in their heads; If you're gonna be a superpower, Do NOT go out and tell the world as to what you should and should not do; The world will not take kindly to it. It is why I keep stressing as to how important it is to restructure and empower the U.N. THAT way, Forigen policies can be dictated more efficiently without MAJOR backlash (Though there will always be someone stupid enough to say that the World is wrong Lol! I would say 1%.)

posted December 12, 2006 08:24 PM            

Hate is a VERY powerful force. Read my racism thread from a couple of days ago in this forum. I agree though i have to say i admire Ghandi dearly, he is one of my favorite people on the planet. And he was a Libra after all