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Author Topic:   State Vs. Federal power...
beebuddy
unregistered
posted August 16, 2007 08:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why oh why does the patriot act, which was created in response to 9/11, contain an article which effectively eliminates each state's right to enforce the death penalty? What does one have to do with the other? No wonder even the Republicans won't touch Bush anymore, he doesn't stand for what the GOP has traditionally stood for and he, or more accurately 'whomever is telling his stupid a$$ what to do', is ruining this country.

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 16, 2007 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice try beebuddy but maybe you should look into the actual verbage of the Act.

The Act does not take away the power to "enforce" what it does is limit the time the death row inmate (already convicted by his / her peers) has to ask for an appeal by a Federal court after he or she has exhausted all of their appeals in their specific state.

In other words, American's are tired of states that allow decades worth of appeals, that tie of the system, use tax-payers money, only to have the same evidence convict the person again. Once that has been exhausted the person takes their sweet time in putting it before the Feds.. we NO MORE... we are tired of wasting money on shut and dry cases. For example, a case that has lasted for years, exhausted appeals only to learn that the prisoner left his DNA on / in the victim (s) along with fingerprints.... The 9th Circuit court of appeals is the WORST in allow prisoners to make a mockery of our judicial system.

Even Liberal Susan Estrich, has issues with stripping the Death Penalty from cut and dry cases;

"Opponents of the death penalty contend that there is no such thing as a good enough system and, in many cases, no such thing as a bad enough criminal. It is there that I find myself parting ways with the critics. I am happy to join any efforts to improve the quality of counsel, review dubious cases or provide funds for DNA testing that can resolve doubts. But there are cases where death is a just punishment.

The same day's paper contains a report of an attack so gruesome and horrible that I can think of no reason why the perpetrator, once convicted, should be fed, clothed and cared for for the rest of his life, rather than put to death. Calvin Sharp, 27, has been arrested for hacking to death a 6-year-old boy with a meat cleaver on Sunday night in a quiet neighborhood of Thousand Oaks, California. His mother sought to save the boy's life. Neighbors first tried to stop Sharp, and then called 911 in horror.

Sharp was fighting with the boy's mother about whether the boy spent too much time watching video games, according to the accounts given by neighbors to police. The boy ran out of the first floor apartment into the central courtyard, and Sharp followed him with a meat cleaver, hacking at the boy's head and yelling "Die! Die!" A neighbor tried to intervene and almost got slashed. Sharp pulled the bleeding child closer and hacked and beat him to death. He then turned on the boy's mother. Ultimately, neighbors restrained him until police arrived, saving the mother's life. Sharp has been charged with both murder and attempted murder.

Sharp is presumed innocent. But that is a legal presumption, not a statement of fact. There is simply no excuse for what he did, and no reason I can think of that the just, certain and swift punishment should not be death. Death is different, but so are some savage criminals. "
http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20070815/cm_uc_crsesx/op_393560

"The new guidelines will limit the amount of time defendants have to file a federal appeal to six months after their conviction, and also impose strict limitations on how long federal judges can take to decide the appeals. States that wish to become eligible for this expedited review process are required to submit an application that will be reviewed by the attorney general, who is tasked under the 2006 renewal of the USA PATRIOT Act [PDF text; JURIST report] with reviewing whether states are providing "adequate counsel" to defendants sentenced to death. "

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2007/08/leahy-specter-urge-delay-in-doj.php

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 17, 2007 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pid, you will never convice those who are convinced the US or Bush or Cheney or all are evil personified.

There is no possible reason to keep convicted murderers who have been given the death penalty...which is damned hard to get and must involve "special circumstances"...there is no possible reason to extend their stays in prison for an average of more than 15 years and sometimes more than 20.

This is just more whining by the left who need something else to screech and shriek about.

This is the same bunch who wailed that the Partiot Act created a police state in America but couldn't come up with one...not one instance where someone's rights were actually violated. I know because I challenged any number of those making the allegation of civil rights violations to name even one. I got NO takers.

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 625
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted August 18, 2007 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Really? No takers?

No one knows about that Canadian that was disappeared by our government and turned over to be tortured for months while his family was frantic? Or that Aussie that's now a celebrity in Australia?

Or how like it was being used against politicians to protesters? Even lap dancers in Las Vegas? Or a father and son innocently stargazing?

Or even how Homeland Security clashed with the the libraries more than once? (One was more funny, and the library apparently won that one.)

It would take some work for me to find the exact names, and I'm feeling too lazy to do that now, but I'm rather amazed that not one of those much more passionate about this than me bothered to take up such a challenge. The memory hole must be vast.


ETA: ok, here's one, as it was just way too easy to find:
http://www.maherarar.ca/

A bit more on other abuses:
http://www.jimbovard.com/Patriot%20Act%20vs%20Financial%20Freedom%20article.htm

Another

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3540572&p1=0

And I've heard from people in the UK to Australia that they're very nervous about visiting the US due to civil rights infringements. Spain stopped sending us prisoners because we're seen as something of a banana republic. Australia has ranked the US higher as a threat to global peace than China or Iraq. And one person who visited regularly from Argentina has stopped since the USAPATRIOT Act, because she just can't handle that level of intrusion. She's from a free country, and the US is just too authoritarian for her tastes. She doesn't know how Americans can stand it and is astounded every time she hears someone say that the USA is the "most free" country in the world. Even before the USAPATRIOT Act, she considered the USA a lot less free than her own country.

I understand that it can be confusing because there are other acts that are also abused, not just the USAPATRIOT Act. Some were ushered in under Bill Clinton, but back then those who loved Bush hated such actions while those that hate Bush now looked the other way or even fully supported what Clinton did. And should Hillary win in '08, then many liberals bleating about Bush's police state will forget about such abuses carried out under Hillary while those who looked the other way for Bush will be outraged that Hillary is doing the same thing.

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